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[Gailete]

Most of my classmates are making a minimum of 150K per year in the private sector.....which approximately 50G less than I'm currently making. .

This is the sentence that was confusing. If they are making 150K which is 50 less than what you are making implies you are making 200K. Apparently you meant to say that you make 50K less than they do.

When I got my diploma, I had gotten a Bachelor's degree 9 years before I started the nursing program. I didn't have 4 years to go back to school and potentially repeat classes I had already had. I went back to school as my marriage had been crumbling from day one and I wanted to be able to support myself and boys and not be a drain on the welfare system. Otherwise I would have gone into accounting. The only difference I ever saw in nurses that had the BSN was at that point, lack of clinical skills and they got the better jobs and raises. Functionally, otherwise not a bit of difference. Who knows what things are like these days as I've been on disability for severe RA now for 15 years and all I know is each ER/Hospital admission, nursing care is getting worse and worse, unless you bump into an older trained nurse from way back.

I understand how some jobs require technical know how to do a job and that means college, but I am honestly appalled at the amount of student loans kids are ending up with, especially when studying fine art, philosophy, all those courses that for the most part don't have any job prospects whatsoever. It goes hand in hand with the news reports as kids are descending on college campuses these days with new in boxes TV, Microwaves, Fridges, coffee pots/Keurig machines, all new linen for their beds, boxes of ramen and other assorted foods, just stacks and stacks of stuff. So different from when I took off for college with two suitcases, a tote bag and a box to hold my lamp, towels, my homemade quilt (my very first one). I got on a Greyhound bus and traveled 1600 miles to get to college. Most kids would turn up their noses at the thought. I returned from college with basically the same stuff only an extra box with my books. A friend dropped all that off at my mom's house so I didn't have to worry about that. But I also ended up home with not a single loan. I realize it was back in the dark ages, But if kids are paying upwards to $1K just for brand new stuff to take to college, it doesn't seem like they are very money conscience to start with so they really aren't counting the cost of those loans.

I feel like the whole student loan business needs a major revamp. No student should be signing up for 20-25K a year in loans.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

The problem is people are told to go to college without question. Not being asked what they are going to do with the degree or what their aptitude is. But I can't help but wonder yes there are people degrees in fine art, philosophy, etc. But we do need teachers a lot in this country. I can't help but wonder if those who are going into those field might not be encouraged to go into teaching? And maybe have loan forgiveness?

[Gailete]

The problem is people are told to go to college without question. Not being asked what they are going to do with the degree or what their aptitude is. But I can't help but wonder yes there are people degrees in fine art, philosophy, etc. But we do need teachers a lot in this country. I can't help but wonder if those who are going into those field might not be encouraged to go into teaching? And maybe have loan forgiveness?

The problem is, do these kids really know if they have the aptitude to teach? Or do they even know the subject that they are planning to learn more about. I will never get it out of my head the time we were at a yards sale and bought a LOT of stuff. Granma was helping the girl raise college funds (points for her) I asked the girl what she was going to major in and she said she wanted to be a math teacher. When she had to add up our total three times (with me helping her the third time), I was wondering how in the world she could teach others how to do something that she couldn't even do. We are talking aobut simplying adding up a column of numbers, nothing fancy. Got some great deal there though

[YULACU]

I guess this is what I was thinking. Which is a different program than what you are involved in.

Under current Internal Revenue Service (IRS) rules, any loans forgiven under these programs are considered taxable income. In short, this rules means that you could face a hefty tax bill when your loans are forgiven. Let's say that after making payments under IBR for 25 years, you're left with $40,000 in debt.Feb 27, 2017
Surprise! Here's When You'll Owe Taxes on Student Loan Forgiveness ...
https://studentloanhero.com/featured...n-forgiveness/

The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program is the only student loan forgiveness program that I know of that doesn't include tax liability for the forgiven portion. The rest of the programs have longer required repayment windows for forgiveness and there's a tax bomb at the end.

[YULACU]

I should hope not! I left nursing school with a loan of around $2000 that was paid off early in about 2 years. My 4 year college I worked my way through and never had a loan from anyone unless the fact that the school allowed me to pay as I went could be considered a loan.

Anyone taking a loan of up to $100K isn't doing enough to keep costs down in the least. They don't understand the concept of poor starving college student.

In your first post you said that you were making $100K and this last post implies you are making $200K. Which is it. Your numbers seemed a bit screwy to me as it was and this just adds to it.

Respectfully,...when did you graduate from college? Sure $100k is excessive for an undergraduate degree, but the current tuition for most 4 year colleges is a considerable amount.

[YULACU]

Is anyone else in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program? If so, how will you navigate around the upcoming changes?

Current stats:
Income/ $100,000
Take home/ $4,900 (after 403b deduction of $500, disability insurance, $165, vacation account, $150)

Mortgage/ $1500 + $50 extra, plus HOA of $349=$1899
Car/ 424 (13 months remaining)
Student Loan, $190,000, payment of $436 per month. Must make 120 payments and I've paid made 26 payments to date.
Phone: $120, Utilities, $50, Cable, $23
Car insurance: $140, Gas: $90, Groceries: $190
Gym, $176 and Incidentals: $150
Life insurance policy: $500,000, $121 every three months.

Mortgage a balance: $199,000, Current value: $400,000

Savings: $10,000
403b #1: $22,000 (no longer making contributions)
403b #2: $52,000 ($500 per month contributions)
STRS: $76,000 (12 more years until I hit 30 years of service)
Retirement is based on 40% of your two higehest years of salary, and I should be able to draw $4,000 per month.

Card Card debt $0

If the program is cut- my payment would skyrocket, but I "heard" that there would be a grandfather clause, is anyone else in a similar situation? If so, what are you going to do?

I've been in the program for about 7.5 years and I'm carrying on as normal. Like you, everything I've read has said people already in the program would be grandfathered in.

[Gailete]

Respectfully,...when did you graduate from college? Sure $100k is excessive for an undergraduate degree, but the current tuition for most 4 year colleges is a considerable amount.

Respectfully, I graduated college in 1977 without a penny owing. I worked like a dog to get through and get my bill paid off. I graduated nursing school in 1988 and the loan was given to me by the school itself so that I could have some money to pay for some personal needs (babysitting, some time for me) to keep me from losing my mind - I was going to nursing school so that I could get a decent job and be able to leave a certifiable crazy ex. The pressure of two kids one going to special school for autism, having to keep up all housework duties as prior to school, a MIL that thought since she was watching my kids for free gave her the right to be as nasty to me as she wanted - thus the babysitting money. I also worked my way through school. In the two years that I was in school, my husband never once asked me anything about school, how I was doing, nothing or even congratulating me on graduating.

I understand that college can be expensive, but I also see and hear what is considered necessary to go to college and I think most of it is ridiculous. Some kids spending $1-2K for stuff to take to college with them. The don't know the first thing about frugality. It is this just get a loan that is going to bite most of them in the hind end after the fact. Learning to live frugally while in college would really help them post college. Kids flying to multiple college tours all over the country, things like that that prior would never have been considered except by the rich.

Lots of ways to keep costs down for college for those willing to do it.

[disneysteve]

Respectfully, I graduated college in 1977

I understand that college can be expensive, but I also see and hear what is considered necessary to go to college and I think most of it is ridiculous.

Lots of ways to keep costs down for college for those willing to do it.

There are definitely 2 sides to this story.

I graduated college in 1986. The year I graduated, my school cost $10,300/year. Today, the same school costs just over $55,000. Tuition and fees have risen far faster than inflation and far faster than wage growth. Working your way through college 30 years ago was much easier than it is today. How is any 18-21 year old supposed to work his way through a school that costs more than the median US household income?

There are a lot of reasons for the rapid rise in college costs and government interference has a lot to do with it, including things like the loan forgiveness program, as I said earlier.

Are there alternatives and cheaper schools? Sure. But if you change the system so that only the richest folks can afford the best schools, that takes our society down a dangerous path.

I certainly don't have the solution but I can see that the system is broken and needs to be changed. I just get a bit annoyed when people say, "I worked my way through school so that's what my kid should do." The world is much different today and what was reasonable to expect 30-40 years ago is no longer reasonable.

[Gailete]

Working your way through college 30 years ago was much easier than it is today

Not really Steve. But that is neither here nor there. I understand that most can't or won't do what I was able to do (and too hard to explain the circumstances that I found myself in that made me have to work like a dog to get through college). But what I don't see or understand is the 'fun' stuff that is being subsidized by those very student loans. I just haven't seen any college students that seem to be careful about what they are spending in years. My husband graduated college same year as you with his dad paying the whole deal, his third college kid on a trucker's salary, and his folks would not allow him to work as studying was his job. He had very limited funds for 'spending money' as well and worked during summer vacations. We all have different college experiences and how we paid for them all.

It just seems that if these kids should understand that facing a $100K student loan debt at the end of 4 years might make them more careful of what they are spending on while in college and what it will do to their future. I had a friend who could tell stories of living on oatmeal during college because she was so broke much of the time. I wonder why we don't hear those stories anymore?

I don't have any solutions to the problems of student loans, but it does seem that it has gotten out of hand, and somehow it must be fixed, especially for kids going to school with no actual purpose to the education like a pre-med might be doing. They have no after college ambitions or goals. Being that fuzzy about the whole thing, might make them hesitate about taking out loans that they won't be able to pay off with fast food salaries after college graduation. Some kids are more geared for tech jobs and should have some way of getting to go instead of college.

[disneysteve]

Working your way through college 30 years ago was much easier than it is today.

Not really Steve. But that is neither here nor there.

I think it's really a critical point so I'm curious to hear your thoughts. How would you suggest a student today work their way through school when the annual price tag is north of $50,000? Even if they get a nice scholarship (my daughter gets about $20,000/year), that still leaves a deficit of $30,000/year. Get a job for $12/hour and work 20 hours/week during the school year and 40 hours/week during the summer and you'll earn about $15,000 before taxes. You'll still need to come up with another $15,000-$20,000/year. If you turn to student loans for that for 4 years, you come out owing between $60,000 and $80,000.

[Thrif-t]

Well I think what state you are from plays a big part in if you can afford college and what schools you choose. I'm in Ohio. My two girls go to state schools here both D1 schools:

DD21 tuition is 11,186 tuition; only she commutes (has a 4k scholarship)
DD19 tuition is 8,327+ R&B 8,990=17,317 (she has a 10k scholarship)

Both have around 7k year in tuition + whatever for books and incidentals.

I think they could pay that if they put their mind to it. They work in the summer to pay some of their school and take some subsidized loans and we have some 529 funds. Now if the gov't didn't hand out the subsidized loans they'd be working more to pay for school. They are engineering and nursing majors so the extra time to study and not work during the school year helps keep their grades up and scholarship monies in tact.

Of course if a 50k year school is your option then ya, you are pretty much screwed.

[Gailete]

Steve, before I could answer you back, I had to find some info on average college costs. I Looked for average costs for college in PA. I looked at state schools. In general they show that the average cost for tuition is $11,400 for a year.

I was stunned to see the average costs of room and board was almost $16,000. If that is based on a 9 month school year, we are talking about almost $1,800/month for those 9 months! If you kick out the high medical expenses my husband and I incur, We live on LESS than that every month why can't one kid? If it is based on 12 months a year, the average cost is ~$1300/month. More than my SS check.

Then we come to the flexible costs. $4200/year miscellaneous & personal expenses, $2000 in transportation, and $2300 for books and supplies? These costs can all be adjusted by what the student is spending. Are they buying new books or used ones or are they renting them at this point? Depending on their major I do believe that some textbook could be used for future reference so obviously might not want to rent those. If they are living on campus where is the $2000 coming from for transportation or do they assume the student is flying home at every holiday? What about a bus? What about less trips home? And then there is misc. and personal expenses. I don't know what all that involves, but if we are talking about just the 8-9 months of school that is almost $475/month on stuff that should be flexible and much less expensive for a poor student or one that doesn't want to be paying for the pizza and latest style of jeans you bought while in college 20 years later.

I see a lot of 'fluff' in this average cost of college. This kind of average and helping the student expect that they should have this much to be spending, or what ever else their college has estimated for them helps feed into the post college use of money and falling deeper in debt. They, if they are lucky walk into a $50-100K/year job and instead of living like a poor college kid immediately buys a house and furniture, and a new car, etc. and then eventually they wonder why they can't make ends meet.

For many kids college is their first chance to get to be an adult and many are not prepared for it. You mentioned in a thread sometime back that you discussed and taught your daughter how to balance a checkbook and budget money. Most kids didn't/don't. I got my first checking account when in college. I only knew what I had learned in math class and growing up in a very frugal home. My mother would have assumed that if I needed to know how to use a checkbook I would figure it. My college, at the time I went, requested and expected ALL students to work four hours a week 'gratis' to help keep college costs down. So I got my first job in the library where I continued to work many hours over the next four years. During one of the meals, a young lady who had gotten assigned to be a waitress said in a very loud voice that "My father didn't send me to college to be a waitress. I'm not going to do this." Apparently there were a few others with that dissenting voice. It allowed me to pick up other on campus jobs. As an American in Canada I could not work off campus legally. All my on campus work went directly into my student account. If I needed laundry money, toothpaste or whatever those essentials might be, I babysat, grandpa-sat (same as baby sitting without diapers), typed terms papers on a manual, portable Smith Corona typewriter for the guys that had never taken typing in HS. This was pre-computer days. Obviously those types of jobs as they came up, didn't allow for much in the way of miscellaneous and personal expenses! By the time senior year hit I was working around 16 hours a week plus my odd cash paying jobs. I had friends from home send me occasional money and a grandmother that sent $5 with every letter. What you have to understand is that none of this had been planned. My father was supposed to pay my whole way for 4 years. I don't know why we had trusted him. When I got back to college after Christmas break for 2nd semester my first year, I asked the treasurer how much was in my account, he told me less than $2. I was 1600 miles from home, I doubt I even had $5 in my purse, it was 40 below and snowy out. What was I supposed to do? They let me stay and I worked my tail feathers off for the next 3 1/2 years. The week of graduation my dad sent in $100 and they gave it to me instead of sending it back to him saying I didn't owe anything.

So when I say I worked my way through, I did. But part of working my way through was by living as a poor college student. It was a great treat to be able to throw $1 in the kitty for pizza once in a while. Even with inflation, I doubt I spent $400/year on misc and personal expenses. At the time the bus ride one way was less than $60. One year I didn't have the money to go home at Christmas so a family took me in and I became part of their nuclear family and still am. I loved college and the sacrifices I made to go I would never want to do without.

I guess that is my problem, perhaps a student can't work their whole way through, but with some frugal living, they can get through school a lot cheaper than by borrowing $30-50K a year. I read in a book once that when it was time for a man's child to go to college, when they had settled on one, he bought a house close to campus for his daughter to live in, had several more PARENTS sign lease's for their kids to live there. The parents signed as the more responsible than the kids. At the end of the 4 years, the student had not had to pay for room, and dad had made money on renting out the house and could now resell it to other savvy parents for more than he had paid to start with. Meanwhile his kid could eat at the cafeteria if they wanted or buy their own groceries and eat for cheaper at their own house.

I just think even at this point in in time college doesn't need to cost the earth. A student that wants to go to college and doesn't want to come out with loans that will take the rest of their life to pay off, they could creatively do it. Even going so far as to take course from your college via the internet. My son did this and his friend is planning on doing this to finish his degree that he had quit working for a while back. Maybe him having a new baby at home made him want to do something for his daughter to be proud of. Of course it really depends on how much a kids wants to go to college and how much they are willing to contribute of their time and talents to do it.

Obviously just my opinion of course.

[disneysteve]

I appreciate your input here. I think you make many valid points but I also think your own numbers illustrate my point that it is far more difficult to work your way through school today than it was 30-40 years ago.

I Looked for average costs for college in PA. I looked at state schools. In general they show that the average cost for tuition is $11,400 for a year.

I was stunned to see the average costs of room and board was almost $16,000.

So for a state school - the ones that everyone always recommends as being cheaper - that's over $27,000/year just for school itself, not counting books, supplies, clothing, linens, some travel (you have to at least get there and back a few times/year), etc. So you're easily talking 30K or more/year and that cost goes up by 3-5% or more each year.

So when I say I worked my way through, I did. But part of working my way through was by living as a poor college student.

Definitely, but as the parent of one of the "not-poor" students, I can tell you that my daughter's friends are perpetually miserable. They can't participate in school activities. They can't buy a fraternity sweatshirt. They can't go out for dinner with friends or go to a concert on campus or see a movie. I think they'd all be very happy to owe an extra $5,000 when they graduated to be able to have a bit of a life during their 4 years of school. I can't understand the parents who are okay with their kid suffering like that for 4 years. We want our kid to enjoy the college experience, not look back on it as 4 years of torture and deprivation.

I guess that is my problem, perhaps a student can't work their whole way through, but with some frugal living, they can get through school a lot cheaper than by borrowing $30-50K a year.

I just think even at this point in in time college doesn't need to cost the earth. A student that wants to go to college and doesn't want to come out with loans that will take the rest of their life to pay off, they could creatively do it.

I totally agree with you. College doesn't have to cost a fortune. You can go to community college and live at home. Or you can take more than 4 years to get your degree, attend part time and work more. Certainly there are options.

My point is just that working your way through is definitely more difficult than it used to be when comparing comparable schools. I had numerous friends who worked their way through college with me. When they only had to come up with maybe 5K/year, it was very doable. Today, the very same school would require them to come up with 30K/year or more. That's pretty tough to achieve.

[Gailete]

I can tell you that my daughter's friends are perpetually miserable. They can't participate in school activities. They can't buy a fraternity sweatshirt. They can't go out for dinner with friends or go to a concert on campus or see a movie. I think they'd all be very happy to owe an extra $5,000 when they graduated to be able to have a bit of a life during their 4 years of school. I can't understand the parents who are okay with their kid suffering like that for 4 years. We want our kid to enjoy the college experience, not look back on it as 4 years of torture and deprivation.

Steve, did you miss where I said I loved my four years at college. I look upon them as 4 of the best years of my life and in no way, look back on them as torture and deprivation! I literally didn't want to leave college because I knew what I would be walking into when I got back home...and I wasn't wrong. I had opportunities to go to concerts and ballets and other cultural activities while there, as many times my college would receive some tickets that they distributed to the students. Not all of us got tickets, but the times I did, I appreciated it as I loved it especially the ballet I believe if I recall correctly the National Russian Ballet and the Royal London ballet (It has been a long time)! I think your daughter's friends have a bad attitude, that lack of sweatshirts, dinner and movies out would be considered in any way torture or perhaps those are your words.

Unfortunately, this is a sad reality of life. Not everyone can afford fraternity sweatshirts, or 'name your favorite team' sweatshirts whether they are in college or not. Does this mean if we want it we can charge it? Of course not! I think many of today’s college kids seem to be missing the importance of what they are there for. Certainly not to drink, or party or live a lifestyle that they cannot afford. The prime reason they are there is to learn some things that will help them as they go on in life. At this point in my life I still do without, so that when blessings come into my life, I appreciate them so much, such as my thrift store score yesterday.

It is a bit funny that here on this forum the prevailing attitude is do without while you get your bills paid off, so why would the attitude be, go ahead and charge your way through college so you can be like the other kids? The same attitude that got me through college got me through many rough patches in my life. Kids that are charging their way through college so they are like the other kids are just going to continue doing that once they are out of college, no matter if they can afford it or not.

[disneysteve]

Gailette, the words in my post were mine and perhaps I was using some hyperbole, and I think I've managed to obscure the point I was trying to make.

Putting aside the "extra" spending like shirts and concerts and pizzas, the cost of school itself has skyrocketed. That's really what makes working your way through more difficult. Even if you could avoid spending a penny beyond tuition, room, and board, most students couldn't work their way through any but the cheapest of schools today.

My freshman year, my school cost $7,600.
That's about $19,200 adjusted for inflation to 2016 dollars.

A freshman entering the same school this September will pay $55,000.
That's almost 3 times as much when adjusted for inflation.