Combined expenses

[LuckyJB]

Then my whole diatribe about "two coming together as one" doesn't apply.

Single people should keep their finances separate, even if living together. Work out a mutually acceptable plan for how much each partner contributes to joint expenses. Some couples do it as a percentage of income, so if person A earns 60% of the combined income, they pay 60% of the expenses, and person B pays 40%. Some people split certain expenses evenly, like the cable bill, for example. You just need to come up with something that both of you feel is fair and equitable.

As for debt, definitely each handles their own. And property should be purchased by one person only. Having unmarried people buy a property in both of their names becomes very messy if and when they split up. Of course, divorce is messy too, but at least there are legal protections in marriage.

I agree. Now. Then, I would say that I didn't really put my ducks in a row as far as what sharing accounts when (engaged) not married would entail. Three years later I am evaluating expenses more, have better cash flow and I am thinking more about retirement and savings. I see the importance of having own personal account but my other half seems to think this is going backwards and we need to treat it as if we are married. AND WE ARE NOT!

[Butterscotch]

I agree about separate everything until married. But if you have been engaged for three years and combining expenses, and now you're taking about getting your own account, that might freak her out.

[disneysteve]

I agree about separate everything until married. But if you have been engaged for three years and combining expenses, and now you're taking about getting your own account, that might freak her out.

Yes, that would be awkward to change it up after 3 years.

I guess you really need to think about what you want to accomplish that you feel isn't getting addressed now.

[snafu]

Off topic but in an attempt to be helpful...

If you are engaged and planning to marry, you and Fiancé would likely benefit from open, well meaning, positive [not hostile] discussions about allocations and general money management. Your church [religious affiliation] or bank [financial institution] may offer classes. There are questionaries on-line and books mentioned regularly on SA like 'The Automatic Millionaire,' The Millionaire Next Door [Danko] that help you both work towards the same goals.

I read the statistics, know divorce numbers are rising and believe the researchers who insist that money issues are a major underlying factor. [I rile that DH's eyes glaze over as he politely listens to my outline of financial factors]

[phantom]

I agree. Now. Then, I would say that I didn't really put my ducks in a row as far as what sharing accounts when (engaged) not married would entail. Three years later I am evaluating expenses more, have better cash flow and I am thinking more about retirement and savings. I see the importance of having own personal account but my other half seems to think this is going backwards and we need to treat it as if we are married. AND WE ARE NOT!

That does sound like an awkward situation. I can see how trying to pull back at this point would sound like, "I was wrong to trust you." Because that's probably the truth; you were wrong to be so trusting and to let things get so intertwined without the legal protections of marriage. It's just that you're realizing this now that you're thinking more about it, not because your partner has done something wrong. If you can stress that the changes you'd like to see are about a change in your thinking rather than a change in your partner, that might help.

I would probably start small with specific issues and fears that you're trying to address. Unfortunately, something like "I don't want to be in a situation where I've paid down your student loan, we break up, and I have no way to retrieve my money," is tricky because it sounds too much like, "I'm afraid you're just using me to pay down your student loans." So, I'd probably start with the management of discretionary income, since this is something that even married couples who plan to spend their entire lives together need to feel comfortable about. Perhaps you could start using that joint checking account for only expenses that are truly joint and put a limit on how much you spend on food and entertainment out of there. Contribute to it equitably (however you definite that), and do your personal discretionary spending from a separate account.

Edit to add: For the record, when my husband and I got married and threw everything together, we didn't see a need for personal discretionary spending. It was something we added when I realized that his frequent lunches out and expensive alcohol purchases drove me crazy, and he was giving me a hard time about buying expensive electronics. Giving each of us a budget amount to spend how we liked was a way of saying that we trusted each other to make decisions within certain parameters. It didn't make us any less of a team.

[LuckyJB]

That does sound like an awkward situation. I can see how trying to pull back at this point would sound like, "I was wrong to trust you." Because that's probably the truth; you were wrong to be so trusting and to let things get so intertwined without the legal protections of marriage. It's just that you're realizing this now that you're thinking more about it, not because your partner has done something wrong. If you can stress that the changes you'd like to see are about a change in your thinking rather than a change in your partner, that might help.

I would probably start small with specific issues and fears that you're trying to address. Unfortunately, something like "I don't want to be in a situation where I've paid down your student loan, we break up, and I have no way to retrieve my money," is tricky because it sounds too much like, "I'm afraid you're just using me to pay down your student loans." So, I'd probably start with the management of discretionary income, since this is something that even married couples who plan to spend their entire lives together need to feel comfortable about. Perhaps you could start using that joint checking account for only expenses that are truly joint and put a limit on how much you spend on food and entertainment out of there. Contribute to it equitably (however you definite that), and do your personal discretionary spending from a separate account.

Edit to add: For the record, when my husband and I got married and threw everything together, we didn't see a need for personal discretionary spending. It was something we added when I realized that his frequent lunches out and expensive alcohol purchases drove me crazy, and he was giving me a hard time about buying expensive electronics. Giving each of us a budget amount to spend how we liked was a way of saying that we trusted each other to make decisions within certain parameters. It didn't make us any less of a team.

Thank you kindly for this response.
I think I did create some suspicion on my part by suggesting or lets say expressing my thoughts about separating accounts. I didn't demand it either. Honestly, I really do believe its a change in my thinking like you mentioned.
I decided since it was becoming difficult to tackle this subject with her, I would not separate accounts. I suggested I use an old checking that I have not used for a while for personal discretionary spending or a side personal savings. I don't think there is any harm in that, right??? but I am finding that even with this suggestion it is still making the idea of that change difficult on her part.

[LuckyJB]

Yes, that would be awkward to change it up after 3 years.

I guess you really need to think about what you want to accomplish that you feel isn't getting addressed now.

It did.

[disneysteve]

I suggested I use an old checking that I have not used for a while for personal discretionary spending or a side personal savings. I don't think there is any harm in that, right??? but I am finding that even with this suggestion it is still making the idea of that change difficult on her part.

The question is WHY? What has changed in the relationship over the past 3 years that now makes you feel you need to have a separate account? Have there been issues having your money co-mingled?

[LuckyJB]

The question is WHY? What has changed in the relationship over the past 3 years that now makes you feel you need to have a separate account? Have there been issues having your money co-mingled?

No there hasn't.
One main concern I have is the amount spent on entertainment( food, drinks, etc.). There is not a real budget set forth and its sort of a free for all - easy to swipe bc there is discretionary income. I felt that maybe having a separate account and allow ourselves to individually keep accountable of what we spend or save would maybe lessen the amount spent in our joint.
These are initial ideas. Not something I was pushing to to have done. Throwing the idea around. But again, it seemed to be more of a sensitive and concern topic to her.

[HundredK]

Truthfully, I wouldn't blame her for freaking out, especially if you've had this agreement for 3 years. If I were her, I would assume you have a foot out the door and are trying to ease your exit, and that would be hard to take. You may not be married yet, but you've already committed to do this with her. So, treat her like a human being, with tons of respect, and let her know that you'd like to come up with a plan for your joint future.

And if, perhaps, you aren't thinking about a joint future any longer, then please let the poor girl know.

[disneysteve]

One main concern I have is the amount spent on entertainment( food, drinks, etc.). There is not a real budget set forth and its sort of a free for al

Is it just her doing the "free for all" spending or are you both party to that? If it's just her, that's one conversation. If you're both doing it, that's a different conversation.

The real key in your statement is the lack of a plan. If you guys are managing your money together, you should sit down together and work out a mutually agreeable budget.

[~bs]

I don't really see the need to get your own account. Wouldn't using separate bank accounts or credit card accounts that are both in your name accomplish the same purpose if you're mostly concerned about tracking expenses? If you have 1 joint credit card account with 2 people on it, I'd assume the credit card company would itemize the spending for each card separately on the statement.

If you have an "open door policy", where all credit card bills and bank statements on the table every month anyways, there shouldn't be an issue of joint or not. It seems like there may be other underlying issues, such as 1 person is spending a lot more than the other person for their own personal benefit. You could try an allowance technique to allow both parties to spend freely within the allowance without guilt. For example, you make $3k/month, she makes 4k per month. Each of you get $500/month direct deposited into a bank account, and are free to spend that amount every month. Anything above the amount needs to be discussed.

disclaimer: I'm not married, and don't plan to be.

[phantom]

I suggested I use an old checking that I have not used for a while for personal discretionary spending or a side personal savings. I don't think there is any harm in that, right??? but I am finding that even with this suggestion it is still making the idea of that change difficult on her part.

I think visibility could be a factor. I trust my husband not to cheat, but if he suddenly wanted to do his spending out of an account that I couldn't see at all, I'd be worried that he was trying to hide something from me. If the goal is simply to limit your own discretionary spending, I'd look for a way to do that without hiding anything. Perhaps you could use the personal checking account, but put it in Mint or a similar tool as a way of giving your partner read-only access.

[~bs]

I think visibility could be a factor. I trust my husband not to cheat, but if he suddenly wanted to do his spending out of an account that I couldn't see at all, I'd be worried that he was trying to hide something from me. If the goal is simply to limit your own discretionary spending, I'd look for a way to do that without hiding anything. Perhaps you could use the personal checking account, but put it in Mint or a similar tool as a way of giving your partner read-only access.

There really is no such thing as "personal discretionary spending or a side personal savings" when you're married. If one person is spending like a drunken sailor, there are far bigger issues at play. Squirreling away spare change in a separate account while the other party racks up the credit card debt on the joint accounts is not a healthy situation.

[phantom]

There really is no such thing as "personal discretionary spending or a side personal savings" when you're married. If one person is spending like a drunken sailor, there are far bigger issues at play. Squirreling away spare change in a separate account while the other party racks up the credit card debt on the joint accounts is not a healthy situation.

I agree that in a couple with combined finances, if one person racks up debt while the other person saves, that's not at all useful. But, it's not clear to me that that is what's going on in LuckyJB's case. It sounds like the combined debt is being paid down rather than continuing to grow. So, if LuckyJB wants to be more mindful with his money beyond what he has already agreed to contribute to paying down debt and to combined finances, I think that should be possible. I would hope a separate account could be a way for LuckyJB to experiment with budgeting without the need convince anyone else it's a good idea. I'm speculating, but if LuckyJB's partner is the sort to spend whatever it's the checking account and stop when it's empty, it could be eye opening for her to see what he can save up by spending a little less freely. If I want to convince my husband to go along with something that I know might be a hard sell, I like to try to find a way to do it myself with little impact on him while I prove the concept.