Lost money?

[Nutria]

I think the goal of this forum is to find the best no-load mutual funds, how to pay less in income taxes, and finding ways to save a nickel. None of these interest me that much, so I'm not sure what I contribute to the board in the end.

A different perspective.

[TexasHusker]

A different perspective.

Some self-reflection on New Years. I actually don't even know how I stumbled onto this site, but I certainly seem to be a salt water fish in a freshwater tank.

[msomnipotent]

Best of luck to you. I hope everything goes well and you recover quickly.

Thank you!

Both at once??

Lol. I hope not. I'm hoping one is done soon so I will be able to go on our trip in March, and then do the other one when I get back. Or manage to delay the first one until after our trip. That would probably be ideal for me but it would really delay selling the house.

[Outdoorsygal]

Some self-reflection on New Years. I actually don't even know how I stumbled onto this site, but I certainly seem to be a salt water fish in a freshwater tank.

I enjoy your posts !!

[scfr]

Some self-reflection on New Years. I actually don't even know how I stumbled onto this site, but I certainly seem to be a salt water fish in a freshwater tank.

Well . . . Your presence has made me feel less out of place here! My husband is self-employed, and I used to have a small business of my own and I know that business owners have a different point of view and different investment style than those who work for a paycheck. Part of that viewpoint is what causes them to become business owners, and part of it develops as a result of owning those businesses. For example, I used to think that my household's investing style was "weird" when I compared it to what I often read about here on the forums and in the cookie cutter financial news, but when I had a consultation with a CFP a few years ago he assured me that we are actually very "average" among entrepreneurial types. I no longer feel a need to defend my style (we take risks with DH's business that most here on the forums couldn't even fathom and are therefore much more conservative with our traditional investments than most can understand). While my views aren't as extreme as yours (my husband is self-employed but I work for a paycheck . . . we are much less of risk takers than you seem to be . . . we put a lot of emphasis on investments that we have some control over but I still participate in my company's 401k and my husband had a SEP IRA and just started a solo 401k), I do find myself falling somewhere in the middle on some of the recent "debates" here and I've been able to understand where you are coming from even if I don't completely agree with you.

So, thanks for making me feel less like the "weird girl."

P.S. - Have you ever read "The Millionaire Mind" by Thomas Stanley? If not, you might like it.

[scfr]

I'm not advocating betting on a single stock. The point is, a 100% employer match is a one-time 100% return. And while that has value, the total return over a period of years can pretty easily be beaten.

For me, the tax deferral is equally as sweet as the employer match.

[disneysteve]

It's 100% one time. Not every year.

It's an every paycheck return.

Sorry, Nutria, but TexasHusker is correct here. The point is that the match only happens once when you first make the investment. That match has absolutely no effect on the return of the investment though.

If you contribute $100, the company matches it and gives you an additional $50, so a total of $150 goes into your account. But from that point on, you're on your own. If the fund you choose goes up 6%, it goes up 6% regardless of the match. It doesn't go up 9% because the company gave you the matching funds.

So is it better to get a 50% match and put the money in a fund that earns 6% or is it better to get no match and find an investment on your own (outside of the 401k) that will earn you 12%? Mathematically, the 12% beats it by a mile, as he illustrated.

The catch is finding that 12% return. It's out there. Heck, it's even out there in the mutual fund world. One of my largest single holdings is VCGHX, Vanguard's Health Care Fund. Since inception in 1984, it has had an average annual return of 16.37%. It's down right now because of Trump being elected and the belief that he will be horrendous for the medical field, but the long term return is still phenomenal. I've made a ton of money in that fund.

[disneysteve]

Some self-reflection on New Years. I actually don't even know how I stumbled onto this site, but I certainly seem to be a salt water fish in a freshwater tank.

It would be a pretty boring and useless site if everyone here was exactly the same and agreed on everything all the time. There wouldn't be much of anything to be learned if that were the case.

[TexasHusker]

Well . . . Your presence has made me feel less out of place here! My husband is self-employed, and I used to have a small business of my own and I know that business owners have a different point of view and different investment style than those who work for a paycheck. Part of that viewpoint is what causes them to become business owners, and part of it develops as a result of owning those businesses. For example, I used to think that my household's investing style was "weird" when I compared it to what I often read about here on the forums and in the cookie cutter financial news, but when I had a consultation with a CFP a few years ago he assured me that we are actually very "average" among entrepreneurial types. I no longer feel a need to defend my style (we take risks with DH's business that most here on the forums couldn't even fathom and are therefore much more conservative with our traditional investments than most can understand). While my views aren't as extreme as yours (my husband is self-employed but I work for a paycheck . . . we are much less of risk takers than you seem to be . . . we put a lot of emphasis on investments that we have some control over but I still participate in my company's 401k and my husband had a SEP IRA and just started a solo 401k), I do find myself falling somewhere in the middle on some of the recent "debates" here and I've been able to understand where you are coming from even if I don't completely agree with you.

So, thanks for making me feel less like the "weird girl."

P.S. - Have you ever read "The Millionaire Mind" by Thomas Stanley? If not, you might like it.

Thank you for the thoughts. I believe I have read bits of that book, but it has been a long time. I've never done a lot of finance book reading. My go-to is C.S. Lewis. I'm starting "Screwtape Letters" today.

Best wishes to you and your husband in 2017.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I'm not a hugely risky person. But on this forum I'm a big spender and I know it. I have a lot of trouble being frugal. I tend to save first and blow the rest. So trust me TH you don't stick out. I think there are many very conservative people on the board financially but there are outliers. Makes it more interesting.

Oh I've lost a lot of money left and right being dumb. My timeshare comes to mind as my dumbest loss. NOT the most money but dumbest.

[Nutria]

I'm not a hugely risky person. But on this forum I'm a big spender and I know it. I have a lot of trouble being frugal. I tend to save first and blow the rest.

Well... money is meant to be spent! (That's the definition of money: a medium of exchange.)

It's just a matter of when it gets spent, how, and how wisely.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Sometimes I wonder if people get more caught up with saving and then spending? It's easy to get addicted

[TexasHusker]

Sometimes I wonder if people get more caught up with saving and then spending? It's easy to get addicted

Savers are generally more obsessed with money. Spenders are generally more obsessed with things.

The truth is, both are things, and neither delivers any sort of lasting contentment.

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

[disneysteve]

Savers are generally more obsessed with money. Spenders are generally more obsessed with things.

I think it's true that spenders are more focused on things.
I don't agree with savers being focused on money.

I think savers are focused on a plan, a goal, the future. For most of us, that is retirement. We save so that we can achieve financial freedom one day and no longer need to work to support ourselves. We're willing to live a little leaner in the present, have fewer things, to make that happen.

And that doesn't mean savers don't spend. They just do it as part of a long term plan. Right now, my family and I are in Florida enjoying a week at Disney World. It's the 5th time in 14 months that we have been here. And we've taken other vacations along the way including a cruise, a trip to NYC with a Broadway show, and various other things. But we are still funding my 401k, both of our Roths, and setting aside other monies for the future.

[msomnipotent]

While I enjoy buying things I love, no one would say I'm obsessed about them. I guess I'm neither a spender or saver. I have a family member that simply cannot bring himself to spend a dime. He let a woman he was in love with walk away because he just wouldn't go anywhere or do anything. The weird thing is that he really isn't money-smart. You would think that people that are so obsessed about money would educate themselves. I'm also related to a few people that are the opposite of him and still don't bother to educate themselves, so there you go.