Borrowing $ from sick mother

[sarah630]

Hello, I have a situation that I'm trying to figure out what to do. My mother has Alzheimers. She has about $225,000 of which about $160,000 is in a TDA. My sister and I are powers of attorney. About 8 months ago, my brother wanted to borrow $15,000 for 6 months from my mother. It upset me greatly to loan out my mother's $ but I agreed and he paid it back 2 weeks ago. A few days ago, he asked to borrow $25,000 for 18 months of my mother's $. I feel very very strongly against loaning out my mother's $, but it's damaging our relationship. He thinks I'm all high and mighty with higher morales than anyone else. I think her $ isn't his personal piggy bank. He's offended that I would think he would ever screw my mother out of the money and promises that if needed, he'd pay back asap (it's for real estate investing). Should I throw my hands up in the air in the name of peace or stick to my guns and pay the price with greatly harming a relationship?

[bjl584]

Why can't your brother just get a loan from a bank or use a HELOC for his real estate ventures? Sounds like he is too cheap to pay interest, so he is using his Mom (who has alzheimers) as a 0% interest bank. Tell your brother to man up and go get a loan and run his side business legit.

[HappySaver]

I'm thinking there's a reason you and your sisters have POA, but your brother does not.

Agreed that at the risk of harming your relationship you should NOT loan him the money. Your greater responsibility is to do what's right for your mother. Good luck.

[creditcardfree]

While your mother is still alive, that is her money for her needs. Not real estate investing. He is bullying you into getting the money he wants. Don't let him do that. I don't want it to ruin your relationship, but it could ruin it badly later if the loan doesn't go as planned or is later needed by your mother and isn't available.

[sarah630]

thanks for the quick response. he is getting a loan from the bank, but they also want to see that he has $ in the bank after the closing for 18 months (which I don't understand at all).

I did say what you said, in different words. My sister has no problem with this and said "yes" right away. I just don't know if it's worth damaging our relationship over this. You have to pick your battles - is this one of them? I'm not saying I'd lose a brother, but things will probably never be the same.

My mom does have $225,000 so if we needed the $25,000, he would have ample warning to cash out a home or get a home equity loan or whatever. Although $160,000 is in that TDA which should not be touched because it is not subject to the 5 year look back period (if my mom needs medicaid) and it earns like 7-8% interest. So that leaves $65,000 of which about $30,000 is at TD ameritrade, so that leaves little in cash - most of which would go to my brother.

My husband thinks I'm crazy when I told him that I want to just stay out of this, remove myself as POA, get my name off bank accounts, and let my sister and brother control, borrow, spend my mother's $.

[sarah630]

he's not POA because me, my sister, and mom live within miles of each other and he lives farther away.

He does own a couple of homes so I guess I should believe that he could get the money, if needed. He also said that he could get it from in in-laws, if necessary, which certainly doesn't give me comfort to count on them for my mom's financial care.

it's a lose-lose situation. If I do agree, I'm going against my best judgement. Why be a POA if not to protect her $$. If I don't agree to loan the $, I'm an a$$hole, which might be making me feel even worse.

[bjl584]

thanks for the quick response. he is getting a loan from the bank, but they also want to see that he has $ in the bank after the closing for 18 months (which I don't understand at all).

Sounds like your brother can't afford what he is doing. He is dependent on borrowed money to give the bank the illusion that he has assets.

[feh]

it's a lose-lose situation. If I do agree, I'm going against my best judgement. Why be a POA if not to protect her $$. If I don't agree to loan the $, I'm an a$$hole, which might be making me feel even worse.

Sounds like you know what the right answer is, even if it isn't the easy choice.

[sarah630]

thanks, all, for the responses. I guess I was waiting for someone to say, "sure loan him the money why not," and this morning I woke up ready to cave in, but the responses just endorsed my feelings so I'm going to stay strong, and if he's going to condemn me for not agreeing to loan out my sick mother's money,I guess so be it. My problem is getting all emotional about this in the first place. I should have just said, "no" without all the drama and guilt.

Thanks so much.

[97guns]

i would not do it. my attorney advises that the power of attorney can invest moneys as deemed fit, she did not mention making a loan with it, there could be ramifications if ALL siblings are not on the same page, your sister can file a law suite against you for this or any other reason pertaining to the trust

that money is still your mothers and you the watchkeeper of it, your job is to preserve it. although incapacitated by alzheimers now she may need the funds later

[bigdaddybus]

thanks for the quick response. he is getting a loan from the bank, but they also want to see that he has $ in the bank after the closing for 18 months (which I don't understand at all).

Your brother is getting a "Secured Loan" which has a lower interest rate than a "non-secured loan". With a secured loan the borrower must have money in the bank for the bank to take possession of if the borrower defaults on the loan.

This is pretty shady of him. If this was my brother I tell him no.


I have family members currently taking advantage of my 92 year old grandmother and it makes me sick. My father lacks the stomach to challenge his siblings and its sad, but in my experiences when someone with assets become incompacitated/elderly/or pass away you start seeing some peoples "true colors". In my families example one family member bought grandmas house for like $10,000 (valued at approx $130,000) and started moving in the day after she move into the retirement home. Another family member got grandma to write him a check for $20,000 for "an investment". Seriously, does a 92 year old woman with around 1M in retirement funds need a $20,000 investment from their son?

[JoeP]

Imagine if your mom required treatment for the next 20 years and you ran out of the money she had saved because you made several un-repaid loans to your brother. How would you feel knowing that your mom's final years were spent in a low-budget nursing home all because of a bad decision made back in late 2014?

Plus, how much do you know about your brother's finances? He might be in deep debt or be on the verge of bankruptcy. You might end up finding it hard to get that money back from his real estate gamb^H^H^H^Hinvestments.

[97guns]

I have family members currently taking advantage of my 92 year old grandmother and it makes me sick.

it is sickening, ive seen family members turn into greedy pigs. my cousin ripped off his siblings with my aunts estate and now nobody in the family will talk to him and my own brother acting greedy with my dads estate, lost a ton of respect for him

[UDRogue]

Your brother is getting a "Secured Loan" which has a lower interest rate than a "non-secured loan". With a secured loan the borrower must have money in the bank for the bank to take possession of if the borrower defaults on the loan.

This is pretty shady of him. If this was my brother I tell him no.

This is correct. He is borrowing money from your mom to make a bank balance which is basically an attempt to lie and defraud his lender. (Misrepresent his assets.)

There is no guarantee he would be able to return the cash quickly if your mom needs it. You need to protect your mom's cash on hand. She is helpless now and is depending on you and your sister to protect her health and comfort. She may be demented but she still can feel pain and discomfort. Your brother is asking you to risk placing your mother in a situation where you would not be able to buy her a caretaker or a piece of medical equipment or a softer mattress or better food. To give him her money is to risk increasing mom's suffering.

You and your sister are legally and morally obligated to abide by the above paragraph and you need to smack your sister upside the head with it. Then, the two of you need to be a united front, and go tell brother it was wrong of you to have lent it to him once, you should not have done it, and you are not going to do it again.

Call up your mom's lawyer and see what he says about this. He should rightly go through the roof at the very idea.

Sweetie, I'm not meaning to lecture you because I know you already know the right thing, but I am just giving you words YOU can use in talking to your sister and brother. I understand because I am just like you:

My problem is getting all emotional about this in the first place. I should have just said, "no" without all the drama and guilt.

This is what happens with us people pleasers, who can't stand somebody being mad at us. It makes us do the wrong thing, it makes us betray those who rely on us, and fail to meet important responsibilities to those depending on us in their time of greatest need. Because we are too weak minded to tolerate somebody being upset with us. See how screwed up that is? It makes your priorities bass ackwards. That you lent it to him once took you down the road a bit and now he thinks he can return to that well. It makes you weaker. If you do it again, there will likely be third time.

Time to draw the boundary, get a spine and do what you know is right. Take whatever consequence from your brother. You can handle it because it is for the sake of protecting your mom's comfort before she passes away.

[corn18]

Hello, I have a situation that I'm trying to figure out what to do. My mother has Alzheimers. She has about $225,000 of which about $160,000 is in a TDA. My sister and I are powers of attorney. About 8 months ago, my brother wanted to borrow $15,000 for 6 months from my mother. It upset me greatly to loan out my mother's $ but I agreed and he paid it back 2 weeks ago. A few days ago, he asked to borrow $25,000 for 18 months of my mother's $. I feel very very strongly against loaning out my mother's $, but it's damaging our relationship. He thinks I'm all high and mighty with higher morales than anyone else. I think her $ isn't his personal piggy bank. He's offended that I would think he would ever screw my mother out of the money and promises that if needed, he'd pay back asap (it's for real estate investing). Should I throw my hands up in the air in the name of peace or stick to my guns and pay the price with greatly harming a relationship?

So what changed from 8 months ago to now that you would then but won't now? He kept up his end of the deal and paid it back as promised. Since he has demonstrated good faith on the first loan, why not loan him the $25k? If it make you feel better, charge him interest. Seems like a reasonable way to invest your mother's money in order to grow her account. 4-6% would be reasonable. Have him sign a loan contract. If he is unwilling to sign a loan contract (and he won't because he needs the money free and clear to secure another loan), then just say no. Business is business. Family is family. They can mix just fine as long as you are doing business with your family the same way you would do business with a stranger. My grandfather loaned out a lot of money to his family. And if you didn't pay, there were consequences. Everyone understood that and everyone loved him dearly. A very kind man with a big heart. A very shrewd businessman who was very wealthy.

Tom