The Saving Advice Forums - A classic personal finance community.

My $15K Middle Class Budget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    My $15K Annual Basic Expenses All in One Place

    Originally posted by tomhole View Post
    So none of this is what you actually live off of, it's a theoretical what you could live off of. Would love to see what your actual annual spend is vs. this theoretical this is what I could live off of.

    The numbers I have listed for MY basic living expenses are actual numbers, based on my costs running rate for the past 12 months.

    Judging by some of the most recent replies on this thread, it should really help to bring all my numbers together in one place, along with their narrative explanations.

    So here is the story, all at once.


    ================================================== ==============================================



    A comfortable and secure lifestyle can very, very definitely be achieved without spending a fortune on it. My basic living expense budget is $15,048 a year. And I am perfectly happy with the kind of daily lifestyle I get for less than $1255 a month (which, by the way, is a lot MORE than even more frugal people find necessary to spend). My case is just one more testimonial to the power and joy of modest expense (I won’t even call it frugal) living.

    In fact, it is not my intent to show that I spend very little. It is, after all not that little. Instead, I want to document by one more example (mine) how much you can have and do -- how good a daily life you can have -- on less money than most (middle class?) people have coming in. To show that financial independence could be a lot closer than generally assumed.

    The context of my basic daily lifestyle includes owning a large house on 2.5 acres of land located 5 miles from a small town and 25 miles from "the big city"... eating a modified paleo diet heavy on meats and vegetables and low on starches... driving a well maintained older vehicle... being free of an obligatory job and commute... and spending a lot of my time hiking, blogging, reading, taking video courses, doing hobby carpentry, watching DVD movies, playing computer strategy games, and listening to classical music.

    I live very comfortably. I enjoy my time on a daily basis free from an obligatory job. And I do it on less than one third of my income. Doing that does not feel to me like a big deal.

    My Budget Big Picture
    That $15,048 a year basic living expense budget of mine works out to $1254 a month. Of that sum, $397 goes to housing expenses, $185 to vehicle costs, $378 to health coverage, $244 to household expenditures, and $50 to federal and state income taxes.

    My budget big picture also includes my wife, who pays for her share of our overall expenses. If I factored her out of my calculations, and I had to pay the entire cost of our indivisible shared expenses (like mortgage), my monthly nut would go up by a net $34 to $1288 a month (or $15,456 a year).

    That my go-it-alone costs would go up so little is something that we have already tested out to be true.

    We own a smaller rental home on one acre of land that I have lived in by myself before. If I were alone, I would live in that house. From prior experience, my solo housing costs (lower mortgage, lower real estate taxes, lower utilities costs, etc) would then go up a net $34 a month. [And this is detailed below, under housing costs.]

    My vehicle and health coverage costs would remain unchanged because they are already calculated on a solo basis for me and my 1996 Dodge Dakota. And my household expenditures (food, etc) would not change either because their consumption would be proportional (half) to the number of people doing the consuming (1 instead of 2).

    So, living with my wife or living alone, my basic living expenses would still be about $15,000 to $15,500 a year.

    My Housing and What It Costs Me
    I share with my wife an 1800-square-feet single-story brick house with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, a full unfinished basement and an enclosed patio room that adds another 200 square feet to our living space. The house sits on two-and-a-half acres of land, along with a detached two-car garage, a large 400-square-foot metal outbuilding, and a humongous 1000-square-foot pole barn (that my wife has converted into her rabbit-geese-chicken raising place).

    If I were living alone, then I would be living in what is currently our rental house. There I would have to myself 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, a living room and an eat-in kitchen in a 1000-square-foot single-story brick house. I would also have a full unfinished basement, an attached oversized one-car garage with enough room for a workshop, plus 2 standard-sized sheds -- all on an acre of land less than 1 mile from a river boat landing and less than 3 miles from a magnificent state park with a very large number of hiking trails.

    Either way, this is living in an owned home with ample space for me, lots of privacy and no in-my-face neighbors. So, we are not talking about hovel living.

    For either house, large down payments make the monthly mortgage low. We keep the shared house at 78 degrees F in the summer and 72 degrees in the winter (though if left to myself I would be okay with 70 degrees in winter). At the shared house, we pay for 2 Ooma phone lines, have a trash pickup service, and have satellite as our only (and expensive) internet option. If I were alone at the smaller house, I would drop one phone line, do my own trash hauling to a nearby dump station, and enjoy better yet cheaper cable internet service.

    So my monthly housing cost breaks down like this (shared house / solo house):
    [] $25K mortgage ================>$114 shared ========>$112 solo
    [] tax and insurance escrow ========>$ 56 shared ========>$121 solo
    [] trash service ==================>$ 14 shared ========> 0 solo
    [] home warranty ================>$ 50 shared ========>$ 50 solo
    [] internet service ================>$ 45 shared ========>$48 solo
    [] phone service ==================>$ 5 shared ========> 0 solo
    [] utilities =======================>$113 shared =======>$100 solo

    [] TOTAL =======================>$397 shared ========>$431 solo

    So either way, it takes around 400 bucks a month (give-or-take) for me to live in a comfortable house on a good piece of ground.

    My Vehicle and What It Costs Me
    I think my most powerful budget-lowering tactic is my textbook Mustachian vehicle ownership strategy. In my book too, a vehicle is for safe, reliable and comfortable transportation of people and stuff. Social status preening through one’s choice of vehicle is in no way a legitimate basic living expense. So my vehicle is a 1996 Dodge Dakota extended-cab pickup that I have driven since 2003. It is paid for, utterly reliable and totally practical. (I haul a lot of stuff.)

    My monthly costs for that vehicle are as follows:
    [] insurance (top-of-the-line) ======>$ 35
    [] maintenance (and repair) =======>$ 100
    [] fuel (for 300 basic miles) ========>$ 50
    [] TOTAL ======================>$ 185

    (My wife drives and pays for a similarly thrifty 1998 all-wheel-drive Subaru Forester.)

    Opting out of a new, fancy-schmanzy vehicle has drastically reduced my monthly outlay for installment payments (I have none), insurance (much cheaper to insure a $4K vehicle) and maintenance (simple systems mean simpler work). AND my older non-status vehicle has reduced my magic FI stash number by about $150,000. (!!)

    My Health Coverage and its Big Budget Bite
    Making sure I am covered in case I get seriously sick accounts for a mind-boggling 30% of my basic living expenses.

    I have opted for an insurance strategy that is front-loaded with out-of-pocket costs to a maximum of $2435 a year (which I've never come remotely close to), but then covers me 100% after that. Because my out-of-pocket medical expenses are sporadic, very variable, somewhat optional and mostly theoretical, I pay for them -- if and when they happen -- out of discretionary funds. So I don’t consider them part of my basic living expenses.

    That leaves my monthly health coverage "sub-nut" looking like this:
    [] hospital and medical insurance ==========>$ 158
    [] longterm care insurance ================>$ 188
    [] dental insurance ======================>$ 17
    [] medications insurance =================>$ 15
    [] TOTAL ==============================>$ 378

    On a budget percentage basis, that is 30% and still a big bite. But affordable (to me). Anyway, it is just about what the lease or installment payment would be on one of those late-model fancy-schmanzy vehicles I poke fun at.

    And Here Is The Rest
    The remaining $294 per month of basic living expenses that I lumped into "household expenditures" earlier in this post go primarily to "feeding." Feeding myself a modified paleo diet that includes very few starches except for whole wheat bread for lunch sandwiches and rolled oats for breakfast oatmeal. Feeding one dog and 2 cats on mixes of brand name dry and wet foods. And feeding the kitchen, bathroom, laundry room, etc. with all the usual household consumables (paper towels, bath soap, cat litter, what have you). All this feeding eats up $225 a month. (I don’t break it down any further because it all gets purchased on the same register receipts at either WalMart, Food Lion or Dollar General and it’s not worth it to me to subcategorize these expenses.)

    So the monthly basic expenses that I arbitrarily grouped as "household expenditures" tally up like this:
    [] food, pets and sundries ==========>$225
    [] Sirius internet radio =============>$ 2
    [] $1MM liability insurance ==========>$ 7
    [] federal income tax ==============>$ 40*
    [] state income tax ================>$ 10*
    [] TOTAL ========================>$294

    (* based on applying the standard deduction and exemption to the gross $15,500 required to meet my basic living expenses.)

    I am well housed and fed. My pets are well fed. And I never find myself lacking for anything.

    It is all perfectly satisfactory basic living… wouldn’t you say?
    Retired To Win
    I blog weekly on frugal living, personal finance & earlier retirement at:
    retiredtowin.com
    making the most of my time and my money

    Comment


    • #47
      But that is not all the money you spend each year. You go places, do things and spend money outside this budget. How much do you actually spend a year?

      Comment


      • #48
        Yes, I was wondering the same thing as tomhole. You keep speaking of "basic living expenses," and "my monthly nut." Is "monthly nut" even a phrase that means anything to anyone here? I keep coming back to nut perhaps meaning "kernel," as though it is only the center of the spending and there are other things, discretionary spending, that anyone else would probably account for in telling us about this. Are there other expenses besides "basic living expenses?" Non-basic living expenses? Extraordinary living expenses? Discretionary living expenses? Or perhaps your understanding is that other money you spend (if indeed you do spend other money) is not living expense at all.

        It seems like you just keep using the same words repeatedly when asked to explain. I'm not getting any greater understanding when you do that. I truly do not get your point.

        It might be that the important thing you have to say is that if people can get all their important items like home, vehicle, investment property paid for (or nearly so) before they retire, then they won't need so much money in retirement, and can thus be unencumbered to think and do other satisfying things. Can't argue with that.
        "There is some ontological doubt as to whether it may even be possible in principle to nail down these things in the universe we're given to study." --text msg from my kid

        "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." --Frederick Douglass

        Comment


        • #49
          It Is All About Financial Control and Flexibility

          Originally posted by Joan.of.the.Arch View Post
          ... It might be that the important thing you have to say is that if people can get all their important items like home, vehicle, investment property paid for (or nearly so) before they retire, then they won't need so much money in retirement, and can thus be unencumbered to think and do other satisfying things. Can't argue with that.

          BINGO!

          I have detailed in this post my $15,500 annual basic living expenses as one more real-life testimonial to what is made possible by astute spending choices without making big sacrifices or a big effort. Without having to grow your own food, repair your own clothes, fix your own stuff, use solar for electric, keep the heat low in winter and high in summer, buy in bulk, ride your bicycle everywhere instead of driving, or any other unusual/special effort.

          Take another look at my budget details. I live in a spacious, comfortable house that is kept at a comfortable temperature using electricity and gas. I drive a comfortable, reliable and well-maintained vehicle. I drive around like a clown to do everything; I don’t ram my bike through snowdrifts or use it to haul refrigerators. I eat great (store-bought) food. I keep pets. I am insured up the wazoo against anything and everything. I lack for nothing.

          The point is NOT that $15,500 is very frugal (because it really isn’t). The point is that it doesn’t have to take much more than that (for one adult person) to have a comfortable middleclass life, that it is not a big effort to get expenses down -- and that you can then direct the balance of your income to wiping out your debt or building your (early?) retirement stash. You can apply your (newly found!) surplus income to reaching financial independence YEARS SOONER than you had thought possible!

          I did that. Covered my basic living expenses with 32% of my gross paycheck. Paid off all the installment debts. Built up a stash that’s invested to yield 160% to 200% of that $15,500 living expenses nut of mine. And, since I know I am not a financial genius, I know this IS DOABLE by almost anyone. Without making any big deal sacrifices.

          Now, I am financially free and job-independent. And, yes, I still cover my basic living expenses with one-third of my (now passive) income. So, since the debts are paid off and the stash is built, I have more than ample money for my "want to" activities and purchases (which topic deserves a separate conversation of its own).

          For me, a modest yet still middleclass comfortable basic lifestyle has been a win-win all the way.

          And that this can be true for anyone else that wants it is THE real take-away.
          Retired To Win
          I blog weekly on frugal living, personal finance & earlier retirement at:
          retiredtowin.com
          making the most of my time and my money

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Retired To Win View Post
            The point is that it doesn’t have to take much more than that (for one adult person) to have a comfortable middleclass life

            And that this can be true for anyone else that wants it is THE real take-away.
            I think it's great that you have managed to do this, but I would again point out that it is extremely location-dependent. Let me see you try and do that here in NJ or probably almost any major metropolitan area in the country.

            Your property taxes are $600. Ours are $7,000.
            Your auto insurance is $420. Ours is $4,200.
            Your utilities are $1,300. Ours are $3,600.

            You also don't have kids so no school activiites, no additional medical costs, no college expenses, etc. No travel in your budget. No outside entertainment at all in fact. Do you never go to a movie, out to dinner, see a show? No charitable giving in your budget either.

            So yes, you could live on 15K but I'm not sure I would call that a "comfortable middle class life".
            Steve

            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
              So yes, you could live on 15K but I'm not sure I would call that a "comfortable middle class life".
              Concur.

              Comment


              • #52
                I think RTW was pretty clear that this a basic budget for someone on Medicare in a low COL area. His other posts here and on his blog distinguish between his basic budget that covers needs, and the money he spends on optional "fun" activities.

                I live in Silicon Valley and my "basic budget" is much higher. Living here is a choice that I pay for in much higher housing costs. I don't qualify for Medicare, so I have to pay much more for medical insurance. I also choose to drive newer, more expensive cars, which are "wants" beyond a basic budget. I could move to a low cost of living area, buy a modest house for cash (or move into one of the rentals), and my "basic budget" for needs would decrease dramatically.

                Being FIRE'd is all about choices. Choosing to live substantially below your means and investing the surplus gets you to FI rather quickly. Your savings rate is the key. Once you are FI, you have a lot more options, including the option not to work for money (the RE part of FIRE).

                The other point RTW makes is that you can lead a very satisfying life without a lot of "stuff." If you forego the new car every few years, the fancy clothes and the restaurants, you are likely to find they are not as important to you as you thought. For most people, the freedom and self determination they purchase with the money saved is far more valuable than what they gave up.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by AnotherReader View Post
                  I think RTW was pretty clear that this a basic budget for someone on Medicare in a low COL area.
                  Understood. It is a basic budget. I just don't think that makes it a comfortable middle class existence.

                  The other point RTW makes is that you can lead a very satisfying life without a lot of "stuff."
                  I agree with that 100%. So many people have totally lost the ability to distinguish wants from needs. I "need" cable tv. I "need" a smartphone. I "need" a new car. The list goes on and on. It is definitely true that most people could live just fine on far less than what they actually spend.
                  Steve

                  * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                  * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                  * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    If I understand RTW's point, if you can cover your basic needs with that budget, extra money can go to wants. Per his blog, he does a lot of free and low cost activities and those satisfy a lot of his "wants." The library is his friend. He visits historical places, which are generally owned by government agencies and are inexpensive to see. He hikes in parks for the cost of the gas to get there. He actually has trouble finding things he wants to spend money on. My rough guess is his share of the basic expenses plus the money he spends for wants is still less that $20,000 a year.

                    By my definition, he leads a quiet, conservative middle class lifestyle. Another blogger promoting the same lifestyle is Mr. Money Mustache. What they have in common is they stick close to home and don't buy stuff or participate in a lot of expensive activities. People whose lives focus on home and do most of their activities at or near home generally have lower expenses. It's the middle class lifestyle that was common in the 1950's and 60's that I remember from my childhood.

                    If you implemented the same philosophy in New Jersey, your spending would probably drop significantly. You would not get down to $15k, but I think you would be surprised at what you could cut out and not really miss.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by AnotherReader View Post
                      If I understand RTW's point, if you can cover your basic needs with that budget, extra money can go to wants. Per his blog, he does a lot of free and low cost activities and those satisfy a lot of his "wants." The library is his friend. He visits historical places, which are generally owned by government agencies and are inexpensive to see. He hikes in parks for the cost of the gas to get there. He actually has trouble finding things he wants to spend money on. My rough guess is his share of the basic expenses plus the money he spends for wants is still less that $20,000 a year.

                      By my definition, he leads a quiet, conservative middle class lifestyle. Another blogger promoting the same lifestyle is Mr. Money Mustache. What they have in common is they stick close to home and don't buy stuff or participate in a lot of expensive activities. People whose lives focus on home and do most of their activities at or near home generally have lower expenses. It's the middle class lifestyle that was common in the 1950's and 60's that I remember from my childhood.

                      If you implemented the same philosophy in New Jersey, your spending would probably drop significantly. You would not get down to $15k, but I think you would be surprised at what you could cut out and not really miss.
                      I agree with all of this, and if this is RTW's point, than I get it. I would just say to RTW that the way you tried to explain it wasn't very clear to me (or others apparently) since you were only posting a portion of your actual budget, not the complete budget. That's probably where many of us were getting hung up.

                      AnotherReader, you make an excellent point about the middle class lifestyle of the 50s or 60s. Life was far simpler then. People didn't have all of the stuff that they have today. Homes were more modest. They weren't laden with technology. They didn't have a slew of subscription services. They cooked most meals at home from scratch. Vacations were typically close to home and basic - the beach, camping, historic sites, museums. A return to that lifestyle could certainly save people thousands of dollars each year. Of course, it might also decimate the economy if it actually happened en masse.
                      Steve

                      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Hypothetical:

                        $500,000 Gross Annual Income

                        $165,000 Taxes
                        $170,000 Total Annual Savings Contribution (34%)
                        $125,000 Annual Base Budget
                        $40,000 Annual Spend "Wants"

                        Should this person strive to live on $15,000 a year?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by tomhole View Post
                          Hypothetical:

                          $500,000 Gross Annual Income

                          $165,000 Taxes
                          $170,000 Total Annual Savings Contribution (34%)
                          $125,000 Annual Base Budget
                          $40,000 Annual Spend "Wants"

                          Should this person strive to live on $15,000 a year?
                          Of course not, but this person is far from the typical American.

                          The median single income for Americans 25 and over is somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000. If that person could learn to live comfortably on $15,000, they would be in good shape.
                          Steve

                          * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                          * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                          * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                            Of course not, but this person is far from the typical American.

                            The median single income for Americans 25 and over is somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000. If that person could learn to live comfortably on $15,000, they would be in good shape.
                            I didn't say it was a typical American. The reason I asked this question stems from the $100,000 income thread. The comment was made that the $100k family seem to be doing fine but they have waste in their budget. Specifically, a $3,000 vacation was unfathomable to one poster. I am just curious if the expectation is that everyone should strive for a $15,000 annual base budget regardless of income level. What I really want to know is how someone who is "forced" to be frugal due to income level feels about someone who is not forced to be frugal because of a higher income. I think both can be frugal while spending vastly different amounts. The implication I read in many posts is that the bigger spend that comes with bigger income is wasteful.
                            Last edited by corn18; 10-27-2014, 07:05 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by tomhole View Post
                              I didn't say it was a typical American. The reason I asked this question stems from the $100,000 income thread. The comment was made that the $100k family seem to be doing fine but they have waste in their budget. Specifically, a $3,000 vacation was unfathomable to one poster. I am just curious if the expectation is that everyone should strive for a $15,000 annual base budget regardless of income level. What I really want to know is how someone who is "forced" to be frugal due to income level feels about someone who is not forced to be frugal because of a higher income. I think both can be frugal while spending vastly different amounts. The implication I read in many posts is that the bigger spend that comes with bigger income is wasteful.
                              That $15k annual base budget figure is just a number, so it does not apply across the board. Speaking for myself, having only $15k to work with would most certainly mean giving up a lot: our house, a couple vehicles, cell phones, broadband, most food, to name a few. For us, the change would be very difficult and the benefits would not be worth it according to our yardstick.

                              I suppose when someone making $30k a year looks at the family that makes half million dollars a year, they look at something like the $40k "want" category and compares it to their $3k want budget and wonders why there is so much of a difference. Could the rich family get by on $3k? Sure they could, but why deny themselves the expense if it is comfortably within reach?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by tomhole View Post
                                I didn't say it was a typical American. The reason I asked this question stems from the $100,000 income thread. The comment was made that the $100k family seem to be doing fine but they have waste in their budget. Specifically, a $3,000 vacation was unfathomable to one poster. I am just curious if the expectation is that everyone should strive for a $15,000 annual base budget regardless of income level. What I really want to know is how someone who is "forced" to be frugal due to income level feels about someone who is not forced to be frugal because of a higher income. I think both can be frugal while spending vastly different amounts. The implication I read in many posts is that the bigger spend that comes with bigger income is wasteful.
                                I agree. This comes up from time to time. Folks earning less see the spending of those earning more as wasteful, even if the higher earners are saving significant amounts of their income percentage-wise, like your hypothetical person saving 34% of income.

                                I'll admit to being somewhat guilty of this myself. For example, I don't know why anyone would ever need to buy a $100,000 car. But if you are a movie star and earned $25 million for your last film, is it really such a problem to go out and drop 100K on a car? Of course not. It's barely a blip on your balance sheet.

                                As for a $3,000 vacation for a family making 100K, that's also no big deal. Folks need to remember the 50/30/20 budget: 50% for needs, 30% for wants, 20% for savings. So someone making 50K could spend 15K on wants. Someone making 100K could spend 30K. Someone making 500K could spend 150K.

                                The problem, though, is that as income increases, people do tend to increase what they consider to be needs when a lot of it is actually wants, so that line gets more and more blurred.
                                Steve

                                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X