When to Switch Jobs?

**TBH** · 10-03-2014, 12:51 PM

Wait a minute. Are these numbers right? You're working full time in an office and brining in only $900 a month? That doesn't seem like enough money to be worth the amount of stress this is causing you.

If you expect to bring in $320 a month from your restaurant job, and you have also been averaging $300 a month in freelance income all year, it seems to me that your chances of making your $400 nut every month are very good. The trick is going to be banking all your freelance income and paying yourself a steady salary out of it.

So if you quit your job now, and work there another 6 weeks, and you really only need to bring in $400 a month, can you bank the other $500 a month til they find a replacement? That will give you a little cushion while you ramp up your other work.

If you really don't need to bring in more than $400 a month total, I think you can make this work. You have three possible sources of income without your current job.

1. Freelance
2. Work for your current internship people after the internship is over in December
3. Restaurant work

The nice thing about restaurant work, too, is that if you find the other sources of income are too irregular you could always add one day of restaurant work. But I don't think you'll have to. It may not even be too long before you don't have time to work at the restaurant at all.

Good luck. My income has been very irregular for years, which can be stressful, but it does give a lot of flexibility to be self employed while working part time. For me the key has really been to bank ALL my earnings, take taxes and retirement savings off the top, and then and just pay myself a salary so my income feels steady even when it isn't.

**jIM_Ohio** · 10-03-2014, 01:00 PM

Do what you love, don't worry about the money.

Focus less on all possible outcomes, and focus more on the 1-3 things which make you tick.

I am going to guess and stereotype here...

If you work from home, you won't see people, so a job like waitressing which gets you out of the house is appealing because you would be around people. The office job currently puts you around people, and you might value the people more than the income? Just a guess. Or you value the benefits and the people, but the money is less important?

Here is a solution:

1) Freelance- go for it, don't look back
2) visit every BNI chapter in your city. Each chapter has a weekly meeting, that can get you around people once a week.
3) Find the closest ACG chapter to your house, and attend their monthly meeting.
4) Find 2-3 other networking groups which hold monthly meetings, attend those to get around people and generate business contacts.

If you free lance, I might suggest you allocate 10 hours per week to business development (meet new people) and 30 hours per week to doing the work you bill for. This should generate a sales pipeline, keep you around people, and help overall plan.

**klarose** · 10-03-2014, 01:53 PM

I say full time, but the hours are actually a little less than full time. But I do work 5 days a week. My lunch is an hour, and several times a week I work days, then have a 2 or 3 hour break, and then work again for a few hours. So it makes it feel like I am at work all the time. The breaks in between are barely enough time to commute home and then make dinner and rush back to work. It makes doing the internship on the side very difficult.

I actually work alone in the office a lot of the time. My boss is here maybe 50%. No benefits. It really is a crappy job. I'm just scared to turn it lose because I know I will never lose it and it gives me stability. But it is for sure not worth my health and happiness.

Until they find a replacement I will be continue to put that $500 towards paying down our small debt, and putting it back in savings. Just like I normally do.

**snafu** · 10-03-2014, 08:23 PM

To be fair to your boss you need to give 2 weeks notice if you are paid bi-weekly or 1st & 15th. You are not obligated to train your replacement unless it's in your contract. I think your employer has been taking advantage of your good nature with a poor hourly rate for split shift work.

I'm hoping DH is supporting your your internship and completing your degree in Web Design. Your Quality of Life is too important to spend any more time than necessary in a job you dislike to the point of sleep issues. I'm supporting all of JIM-Ohio's suggestions to quit, allocate a minimum of 10 hours to business development via networking like BNI and whatever is available in your community to establish a clientele.

Work at the restaurant if you must, but try for the busiest shifts to make the time go faster and get the highest possible sum in tips. Before you sign on, verify the minimum wage in your state and the tip-out procedure in that operation. I recall DS2 who waited tables in a nice family style restaurant, was furious if he didn't make $ 100. in tips, after tip-out for a 4 hour dinner shift.

Yes, fridges will need repair, winter will come, clients will disappoint, projects will frustrate you...but those and more are life's challenges. You will meet and solve them...we all have confidence in your abilities.

**Gailete** · 10-03-2014, 10:47 PM

A job that pays only $900 a month doesn't deserve a 6 week notice of leaving, barely even 2 weeks. It sounds like a non-skilled non-professional job (I'm going from the pay not the actual work you do) and at most you only owe him a weeks notice. At least all the non-skilled jobs that I used to work only required that. If the boss expects a 6 week notice, then he had better start paying you the equivalent of someone that is expected to give that kind of notice--like folks making $100K+/year. Even as an RN I never worked where more than 2 weeks notice was standard.

Afraid I do not understand married couples that a don't pool their money so that hubby shouldn't have a $300 slush fund and you have to earn $400. Seems that the two of you only need at least $100 coming in each month to equal what you need and you have already shown that you can do that plus+. I also don't understand non-married couples that do pool their money and the girlfriend is struggling to pay off boyfriends debts from before they met! But that is just me.

The point for you being, is it seems that the minimum needed is basically coming in and with a fresh new 'we are a couple look at finances' you should see even more options and those being, get rid of the office job, see what kind of income you can make freelance, and do what you can for your internship, but unless they are paying you for your work, I would limit your time to a reasonable amount so that you have time for a life as well. Internships weren't much heard of when I graduated college and I don't know exactly how they work. I just know that when my son graduated technical school, he got an internship for something like 6-8 weeks, never got paid a penny for full time work and wasn't hired at the end of the internship. So I would be really careful about expecting the job prize unless you have a contract that you WILL get hired full time at the end of the internship.

Best wishes on this. I at one point had a job I hated so much, that I quit (with 2 weeks notice). Even though heavily in debt (mostly from my then husband) and not having any idea of what I would be doing next, I felt like I had the weight of the world taken off my shoulders. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

**klarose** · 10-05-2014, 06:53 AM

The 6 weeks thing is kind of tricky. I work for a non-profit, and I work for friends. My job is hard to learn, and to find a new worker they would have to go through a business meeting which is only once a month, and then pick someone and vote on it again, etc. So it does take a while. Sure technically I would only have to give 2 weeks notice, but then they would be scrambling and don't want to damage any relationships. I want to go out on a good note, because I will still be involved with these people even after I quit.

As I said. Husband's extra isn't just his. We use it for dining out, house expenses, date nights, vet bills, etc. While we could cut down all of that and will cut down, and use that money to cover our tails I would really not like to depend on that, because I don't want to have to budget that tightly. Things always happen.

Husband is on board with my degree and freelancing, but he does want me to be positive I will be making income.

**Gailete** · 10-05-2014, 07:33 AM

From the sounds of it, it would be closer to 8-12 weeks to get a new employee to take over your job then. If your job is that difficult, they should be paying you more to compensate. I turn 59 this month month and have had lots of jobs over the years until I got too disabled to go out to work. I had many jobs that I was doing a great job, and knew it would be trouble to replace me and all I did, but you know what? they always did. They may not have gotten someone on my level of work and dedication, but they got someone. Businesses that want to keep someone will do what they can to keep that person and help them to enjoy their job if at all possible. By the time I left my last few jobs, I knew very well that I wasn't irreplacable and if the job wasn't worrying about me then I didn't worry about it.

I can understand the wanting to be on good terms with your job as you leave, but if you give proper notice and extend yourself to offer to come in and help train and orient the new person when they are hired, if they don't perceive that as going out on a good note, then I doubt that 6 weeks notice would either. I think many companies don't want to give employees that sort of leave time to quitting their jobs as it can rub off onto other employees, other than those leaving for maternity leave, millitary service or going away to college type things. It doesn't sounds like you are at a places with many employees, but the thought is there. It can make things uncomfortable for all around.

Of course it is you decision, but you did ask for help on when to make the leap.

**ua_guy** · 10-06-2014, 07:56 AM

Most people consider "full time" to be about 40 hours per week, or approximately 2080 hours per year. Your current office job sounds like it's more like part time.

2 weeks is standard notice of termination in most jobs, unless your company has an HR-mandated notice period, or you are under contract. If you're not, then, follow industry standard. If they need a replacement, they will begin searching immediately and expedite the process as needed. This is how businesses work, nonprofit or not.

From an outsider perspective, I don't see this having the same kind of gravity that you do, but that's because I've probably arm-wrestled employers a lot longer. If it's causing you a heart-attack, find a new job and move on, it's as simple as that. I don't understand the need to tip-toe around the relationships in this particular job as presumably they are the people that are stressing you out and making your life miserable. There's no need to be retalitory or snyde or anything like that, but it's not wrong or offensive to put in an industry-standard notice and take off. Consider temp-work if your freelancing isn't providing the frequency of work that you had hoped.

As a side note, I cast weary eyes on internships. They serve a purpose, but most often it's an employer getting free labor and knowledge without having to adhere to normal employment practices or expected pay scales. On the flip side, you should be getting substantial experience, access to a professional network, or maybe even a job offer out of the deal. It sounds like you're accomplishing the latter-- but if they are serious about bringing you on and want you to devote more time/effort to their cause, have a serious talk with them about doing it sooner, and drive a hard bargain when it comes to pay.

**Gailete** · 10-06-2014, 08:31 AM

What UA_guy said- so be it!

**klarose** · 10-06-2014, 10:44 AM

Just to clear some things up.

I work for a church. The church I have been going to for the past 15 years, and the church I will still be attending a couple times a week after I quit. So yes. It's a delicate situation.

The reason it takes so long is because they only hold business meeting once a month. And everything has to be voted on.

I work 30-35 hours a week. But I have to attend all services, and all special events. (Funerals, weddings, conferences) So that means I have to work in the office 5 days a week, and then I also have to work a lot of evenings and weekends, but only for a couple hours at a time. So although I may not be working many hours, it messes up any plans I might have, and/or keeps me from working on freelance projects for more than an hour or two at a time. Because my day gets interrupted. Yesterday I had to come to work 3 different times. It's a 15 minute commute each way, and there was about an hour - 2 hour break in between each shift. So that means I basically I had just enough time to run home and chow down some food before coming back.

The internship is REQUIRED by my school, and is required to be non-paying. The employer has been very gracious and has been "slipping around" the rules a little. He pays my fuel and my internet at this time, although technically the internship is non-paying. So I have no thoughts that he will be unfair or try to shortchange me when I switch into paying employment.

**Gailete** · 10-06-2014, 09:49 PM

I obviously don't know your actual denomination or what you need to do that requires you to be their so sporadically throughout the day since you didn't mention being the pastor or assistant pastor which you would assume would be at those many and varied services. I have a degree in religious education (Protestant)and in all my years going to church I don't think I've ever seen any lay worker with the requirements for work that you do, so I can see why it is driving you nuts, especially since it seems you are making less than minimum wage and I doubt being reimbursed for the gas for your 'down time' travels home and back. I do understand that governing boards meetings happen once a month, but that doesn't mean a special one can't be called, just like would need to be done if you were interviewing several new pastors to be hired by the church.

I think you need to really think about what you need and be sure that even if you hold out to the 'bitter' end, that they know you are leaving. You could tell them that you will need to leave by the end of the next 6 weeks due to your schooling, work and family needs and that you would appreciate them starting the hiring process as soon as possible. Governing boards can be slow pokes about anything and everything. So the sooner you give them lead time the better.

Believe me I am sensitive to your problem as one of my friends had the problem in the opposite way. She and her late husband had attended the church since they were small children, married in the church, raised their children there, gave generously as their income permitted. Then her husband died of cancer leaving her with three children still at home and no job skills. She managed to get herself through school and the church hired her part time as the office secretary for 12 hours a week. Right around the time the last two graduated high school and Social Security stopped her widow's benefit. I ran into her in the grocery store tears just pouring out of her as she told me the church had just chopped those meager hours to 8! At this point I had been going elsewhere for awhile but I couldn't figure out how any church could so shamelessly treat a widow in their midst who wanted to work to support herself as needed. Especially one whose family had been so beneficial to the church in many many ways over the last 30-50 years including both their parents.

As I said before, you may think they 'need' you, but that doesn't mean that they won't be able to find someone to do whatever it is you do. What will you do if it takes them 3-4 or more months to find someone willing to work the wacky hours they expect of you? Do you plan to keep working until they do which just gives them a reason not to make hiring a priority? If they have hard feelings when you give them a six week notice and leave even when they haven't replaced you, you may want to rethink the decision as to whether that is the best church for you. What does your hubby say about this? Does he attend with you and are his thoughts the same, that there would be hard feelings if you left? I think that is what bothers me the most. You are extending yourself significantly and you shouldn't have problems. I've seen pastors go with less than 6 weeks notice! But then I've seen a lot in my life at this point.

**klarose** · 10-07-2014, 06:39 AM

Thanks for all the advice!

When I tell people that I am a Church Secretary and I work all the hours that I do, and all the jobs that I do they don't believe me.

My job isn't just answering the phone though. I am the Pastor's personal assistant. Basically I do anything that he doesn't want to do, and anything that will speed up his work process.

That is from making tea and coffee daily, to putting together all the advertising we do. I type all his sermons (3+ a week), make powerpoint presentations for each one, put together all the music and make presentations, handle all the ordering supplies, run the website, making bulletins for every service, business meeting minutes, newsletters, etc. We are a very active church. Not only that but I do personal things for him too. Calling a hotel and reserving a room, stopping by and picking up his lunch. I like to joke that I am a paid, personal slave.

I am REQUIRED to be at every event and every service. Not only do I get all the Pastor's stuff ready, and have to be there in case he needs something, but I also run the computer & projector. All our sermons and music is all on screen.

It's not rocket science, but it also isn't something you can just pick up in a day. Everything has little details. Such as what margins, and font size he wants on his typed sermons, to remembering that he needs to call a certain person two months from now. My memory is bad, and I have a hard time remembering all the little jobs. Which then I get in trouble for, and it stresses me out.

If I walked out tomorrow I have no doubt they would scramble, but they could get SOMEONE to handle the most important stuff, and the Pastor would just have to type his own darn sermons, and answer his own phone calls. But I don't want to go out like that and damage relationships. I really want to make this as easy as possible. Without letting them take advantage of me.

I am speaking with the new employer on Thursday and hope to hash out some details, and be certain I will have a job. Then I will be telling church that I am leaving, and that they need to find someone. I would like for them to find a replacement and get them in by December. I would not be opposed to coming in for training a few times afterwards. But I'd like to be completely free by the 1st of the year.

**doingitallwrong** · 10-07-2014, 08:47 AM

I had a job kind of like that before (not the same type of job, but one full of 100 little things to do every day that you wouldn't even know about if you hadn't been doing the job for years). When I was planning on leaving, I typed up a manual that included all those details so that the new person wouldn't be totally clueless. It took some time, but I started early enough that I was able to do a little at a time and remember to include those things that only came up every couple of weeks. I think it kept me on better terms with the employer than if I had just up and left, even with a lot of notice, and smoothed the way for the new employee. (Offering to help train is always a nice gesture and some employers may take you up on it, but often they aren't going to want you discussing any negative aspects of the job with the newbie!)

**Gailete** · 10-07-2014, 12:59 PM

I remember when I was leaving my last job after three years. My boss and I were eating lunch and I mentioned that for the majority of those years if the 2nd shift nurses had trouble they called me at home which was usually several times a week. I could see her face blanch because she had never known this and suddenly realized who was going to get the calls now and why she hadn't for all those years. It�s the little things that someone else may never pick up.

Sounds like that pastor needs his own personal day planner so he remembers himself that he needs to call on someone. Does the board understand thoroughly what he expects of you? They may know you do a lot but how much do they perceive as paid work against volunteering since you attend there as well. I still think he and the church is taking advantage of you and your pay speaks to that. I�m sure you know what he gets for pay. How much of it is for things you are actually doing not him? Grab an interested high school kid and train them to run the AV stuff. I know that is possible because at our church when we lost our AV guy, my older son in high school at the time, did the job for years after that. As an older person, unless you have no hymnals at all, go back to those hymns that mean so much. Songs on screens at the front of the church are almost impossible for people with vision problems to see (my husband never could and it frustrated him so much, and older people can't see them either). Some of the stuff that has come out in the last 10-20 years that is so modern I firmly believe is actually detrimental to worship. I guess I'm old as I don't like those power point presentations. Obviously this has been your churches decision to do things this way, but I find it unfortunate and totally unnecessary, especially as it is driving you crazy and you are being underpaid for it. I can�t imagine that they will find anyone to pick up all those duties for the same pay after you are gone.

Best wishes of the new job and getting rid of this one. Just tell yourself that the church will survive and if it doesn't it was on a shaky foundation anyhow!

When to Switch Jobs?