Help negotiate a job offer?

[riverwed070707]

Quick background points:

• DH was a SAHD. Went back to work PT in January
• We planned to relocate at the end of summer
• DH was not looking for FT employment. His current employer, knowing we were planning to relocate, approached him about a promotion from working one store to managing 6 stores with 6 direct reports because his current manager (also part owner) is selling out his share and taking a different job. Said it would be worth reconsidering relocation. Nothing specifically was promised but his boss gave some indication of a ballpark and we both had ideas of where the offer would come in. No one else was interviewed as none of the other employees are good candidates and they really want him to take this job

So today he got his offer from the owners directly and it is *nothing* like how it was promoted to him by his boss. Currently he makes $9/hr working 21 hours a week + commission on every member he signs up which comes out to be around $400/mo in commission. Offer was for $12/hr working 30 hours a week + commission based on the total number of members at all 6 stores. Based on current membership, his commission would vary from $300/mo to $1000 during the busiest winter months. To summarize, we estimate he would be making approximately $25k/year for 30 hours a week of work and the offer did not come with any benefits - no paid time off, no retirement, no healthcare, nothing except a phone and gas stipend.

Needless to say we were both disappointed as we thought it would be in excess of $50k/year with commission, but we feel its still a great management experience opportunity for him and would be worth trying to negotiate but feeling a bit stuck on where to start. My initial thoughts were 1) he's expected to be on call at all times and its hard to track hours while traveling between locations, taking after hours call, etc. so a salary would be more reasonable than an hourly wage. This also allows him to ask for paid vacation which is a great perk that is low cost to the company 2) He should not be making the same commission on all stores at what he is currently making at 1. When he moves into this role, the individual store employees are going to be straight time only which is how they are justifying paying his role commission (his role is new, not a replacement) but it seems they are selling him way short. How do you juggle this - ask for them to double (?) the commission or...?

Other ideas on where to ask for more to make it feel worth his time? He doesn't NEED the job and I've told him I support him whether he takes the offer or leaves it. I've never negotiated an offer before but I want this to at least feel worth it, especially since it doesn't come with any perks or benefits other than a flexible schedule and we're deferring our relocation for this opportunity. I feel like if they really want him, they will be willing to pay more but want to make sure its presented in a reasonable and tactful way. Having a hard time researching comparable salaries.

[bjl584]

I've never heard of a manager in retail managing 6 stores for only $12/hr. Yes, he is being sold WAY short. It sounds like he is going to be stepping into a sort of District Manager role. For $12/hr? Part time? No benefits? No thanks!! A job like that should be salary, full time, with benefits, for at least $50K a year.

If they are only bringing $12/hr to the table, then they probably aren't going to be willing to negotiate much. You said that he doesn't need the job, so throw out an offer and see what they say. The worst that can happen is that they will say no. He was going to quit and relocate anyway, so you two have nothing to lose.

[riverwed070707]

I've never heard of a manager in retail managing 6 stores for only $12/hr. Yes, he is being sold WAY short. It sounds like he is going to be stepping into a sort of District Manager role. For $12/hr? Part time? No benefits? No thanks!! A job like that should be salary, full time, with benefits, for at least $50K a year.

If they are only bringing $12/hr to the table, then they probably aren't going to be willing to negotiate much. You said that he doesn't need the job, so throw out an offer and see what they say. The worst that can happen is that they will say no. He was going to quit and relocate anyway, so you two have nothing to lose.

I'm not sure what to think on how much they will negotiate -- on the one hand they've made it sound like they really want him for the job. I can't imagine they want this position to turn over all the time like those do, especially when they are investing money to send him to a week long franchise training. On the flip side, they are trying to sell all 6 locations so they want expenses to appear low to appeal to buyers.

We talked some more last night and I pretty much told him the same thing - ask for what you want, the worst that can happen is they say no and we've not lost anything. The part time is actually a perk IMO (and hes happy to take a little less for it) because it gives us some schedule flexibilty to take care of DD when I'm traveling or working OT.

I'll report back when we hear something. Thanks for validating my concerns

[Eagle]

How do you juggle this - ask for them to double (?) the commission or...?

6 Stores? With what kind of total annual revenue? $12 an hour seems like peanuts. Definitely ask for a salary. I'd ask for vacation, health insurance, dental, and a 401k match. Worst they can say is no.

If you want to land at 50k you might want to ask for more so there's wiggle room for the company to "negotiate you down". Perhaps a better starting figure is 60k or 70k.

He doesn't need the job and you were planning on moving. They haven't interviewed anyone else. Sounds like you guys have the trump cards. Good position to be in.

[snafu]

I've no idea what sector, what business, total staff or where you live but $ 12. per hour with no benefits and responsibility for 6 locations, 24/7 is ridiculous. I'm guessing there are problems at some locations that need to be addressed. Problem #1, existing staff will be asked to give up commissions for straight pay...ouch Added to all that, the position is likely temporary since the business is for sale. I'd check on LinkedIn to see if you could find some type of comparable that you can adjust to pay scales in your location.

My 1st reaction was the added expenses for child care, SAHD's work, the myriad of work related expenses like transportation and work apparel plus the disruption of family life as a result of after hour problems. Meanwhile the two remaining two owners now split an additional 15% with owner #3 gone. Do you really want to put your plans off for these guys?

If $ 50.K a year sounds reasonable for 30 hrs per wk. with no benefits how does travel time and 'on-call' fit in? Full time here is 37 hrs per wk; a full plate of benefits are typically worth 1/3 your salary. How many events will be disrupted while DH dashed off to solve an after hours problem? If DH wants experience as a manager he could negotiate for billable hours @ $ 25. plus mileage at gov't rate which is something like .060 cents per mile and stay silent on your plan to move on your own schedule.

...just my 0.02 cents.

[riverwed070707]

6 Stores? With what kind of total annual revenue? $12 an hour seems like peanuts. Definitely ask for a salary. I'd ask for vacation, health insurance, dental, and a 401k match. Worst they can say is no.

If you want to land at 50k you might want to ask for more so there's wiggle room for the company to "negotiate you down". Perhaps a better starting figure is 60k or 70k.

He doesn't need the job and you were planning on moving. They haven't interviewed anyone else. Sounds like you guys have the trump cards. Good position to be in.

Not sure on annual revenue but I think the bottom line is they are trying ot make the numbers look good for the sale and because they don't have a long term interest in the success of the company, retention might not be a priority. However, I also know that DHs store was one of the worst performing and he brought it up to the best performing of the 6 in the 5 months he's been there so they are also looking for growth results and feel he's the guy for the job. $50 felt starry-eyed for a part time position, but we thought it woudl reach $50 with commissions. I wouldn't know where to begin to ask for that kind of money when an hourly that averages to less than $19k/year is what was offered especially when he doesn't already possess the management experience but definitely feel $40-45 is deserved.

I've no idea what sector, what business, total staff or where you live but $ 12. per hour with no benefits and responsibility for 6 locations, 24/7 is ridiculous. I'm guessing there are problems at some locations that need to be addressed. Problem #1, existing staff will be asked to give up commissions for straight pay...ouch Added to all that, the position is likely temporary since the business is for sale. I'd check on LinkedIn to see if you could find some type of comparable that you can adjust to pay scales in your location.

My 1st reaction was the added expenses for child care, SAHD's work, the myriad of work related expenses like transportation and work apparel plus the disruption of family life as a result of after hour problems. Meanwhile the two remaining two owners now split an additional 15% with owner #3 gone. Do you really want to put your plans off for these guys?

If $ 50.K a year sounds reasonable for 30 hrs per wk. with no benefits how does travel time and 'on-call' fit in? Full time here is 37 hrs per wk; a full plate of benefits are typically worth 1/3 your salary. How many events will be disrupted while DH dashed off to solve an after hours problem? If DH wants experience as a manager he could negotiate for billable hours @ $ 25. plus mileage at gov't rate which is something like .060 cents per mile and stay silent on your plan to move on your own schedule.

...just my 0.02 cents.

All good points. Regarding the employees being transitioned to straight pay, that has been taking place as they are replaced at each location (this is how high the turnover is, they were able to phase out all commissioned employees except DH in about 6 weeks )

I did suggest to him that they might take issue with moving to a salary pay if thats not what they were offering so he should have an hourly in mind that makes up for no paid vaca to counter with if they say they can't do it. The benefits are tricky because its such a small company that they really don't have to offer anything, nor do they get much negotiating power when they only have 1 employee asking for health insurance. My understanding is the owners are financial investors and are not active employees of the business.

IDK if we want to put our plans on hold... its tough because having the second income would give us a really good opportunity to pay all our student loans and really pad our savings before we make the leap. Despite the disappointing pay, it would also make it easier for him to find a job when we go if he can say he has experience managing 6 stores with 10 direct reports rather than just his own store with no reports. We don't have jobs waiting where we want to go and the only time sensitive thing we have going on here is we need to sell our house before we can leave so even if he decides its not worth staying, we will be here at least a few months --- and then you have to wonder if he should have taken it if not just to get us until its time to go?

Weighing all the pros and cons is exhausting But I'm glad to hear everyone didn't just say to be thankful he got an offer.

[riverwed070707]

***Update***

So DH countered asking for 40% more than they offered with salary instead of hourly and 2 weeks pd vaca. They came back the next day saying they agree to a salary and 2 weeks vaca but they want him to work 40 hours a week and they would pay $25k plus the commission. After sitting on it all weekend, we responded yesterday indicating he was fine with 40 hours but wouldn't take less than his intial asking. They just responded this afternoon agreeing to his counter on a probationary period of 6 months. His employement will be considered permenant if he can bring membership up 10% within the 6 month probationary period. Still sitting lower than where I think a comparable would be and it doesn't have health or retirement benefits but overall, i'd consider it a win If he brings memebership up to where there asking, his monthly commissions will be $550-800/mo and he's gaining some valuable management experience to move on and up if they don't increase pay with results and experience.

Feeling bittersweet about committing to staying here a bit longer but very happy for him to get the opportunity to expand his career. Also not sure what to do with this new cash flow Guess its time to redo the budget.

[snafu]

congratulation to DH, I hope he enjoys his new role. How are they reimbursing for travel between locations? I suggest DH keeps careful records of mileage and expenses. Can you workout a rough estimate of deductions to determine net income? Will DH have work related expenses? Will the next 6 months give you time and opportunity to research your next move?

[riverwed070707]

Well couple reasons. Becoming a 2 income household after so many years of my income alone supporting us will give us a lot of freedom financially and help me transition to a new career with less stress which I've been wanting to do for some time. Secondly, it provides him some pretty valuable business and management skills for developing his career. He likely wouldn't be considered for the position elsewhere so it's not as if he has better offers on the table n