My Budget

[disneysteve]

My last post was written before some of the other responses.

I'd recommend you pick up Dave Ramsey's book "The Total Money Makeover" and both read it.

I'm also wondering about the personal trainer certification. Is your husband realistically going to be able to work as a personal trainer given his health status? If he can, that's great and it can bring in added income, but if not, why spend the money to do it?

[hamchan]

I guess the way I look at it is that cutting all discretionary spending might shave a month or two off of repaying the debt, but the cost is not worth the savings to me. It's worth having a couple more months of payments to have a few creature comforts so I don't completely lose my **** while getting there. It's worth not alienating my family. We have different philosophies about this, and I can respect that. I get where you are coming from but I don't think your strategy is right for my family. There is a middle ground.

DH lifts weights at the gym and we have neither the money nor the space for all of the equipment he uses. There is no reason his health issues should stop him from doing it. He works closely with his medical team to make sure he is not doing anything that would put his health in further jeopardy. He lost 130 pounds when he was diagnosed with diabetes and has kept it off. Unfortunately it has not had the effect it has for most people, but he might be even worse off had he not done it. I also strongly support him going into a work field that cannot be outsourced. I think that is very smart. He is also interested in becoming a certified nutritionist at some point. He has the strongest work ethic of anyone I personally know and I am very very proud of him.

[disneysteve]

I guess the way I look at it is that cutting all discretionary spending might shave a month or two off of repaying the debt, but the cost is not worth the savings to me.

If that's true, then I agree with you. I wouldn't cut out the fun stuff if it only makes a difference of a month or two. That wouldn't make sense.

[bigdaddybus]

I guess the way I look at it is that cutting all discretionary spending might shave a month or two off of repaying the debt, but the cost is not worth the savings to me.

I thought the same when we started working at getting out of debt. That's just what I thought.

When we ran numbers, and started paying things off using a debt snowball we paid off 36 months worth of payments in 8.5 months. It was a sucky 8.5 months, but now that we are done things are better than ever...so keep that in mind too. We sold off extra stuff we didnt need, had garage sales, etc to make it happen.

I like the D Ramsey quote. "You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired" and fight your way out of debt with Gazelle intesty.

http://www.daveramsey.com/article/gazelle-intensity-do-you-have-it/lifeandmoney_debt

Some of us have found that once you get gazelle intensity it is tough to shut off.

[shaggy]

Is $9/month a lot? No. But it isn't $9/month. It is $9 for Netflix plus $17 for Rhapsody, plus $9 for a museum membership, plus $23 for the gym membership, plus $50 for gifts, plus cable TV plus college savings plus haircuts plus entertainment.... These are ALL luxury expenditures.

Yes, indeed. Just quoting this for truth.

I guess the way I look at it is that cutting all discretionary spending might shave a month or two off of repaying the debt, but the cost is not worth the savings to me.

Only two months? Have you done the math on this?

One other thought that may not be welcome: When my former husband was diagnosed with serious congenital neurological issues and had many brain surgeries in a short time, what we decided to spend together wasn't money, but time. I hope you'll take this comment in the spirit it's intended.

[hamchan]

That's all well and good but we don't have anything to sell because we don't buy things we don't need. I have already cut my work hours some in the last few months because I was wearing myself out physically and emotionally. The apartment was in shambles because I had no energy to clean it during the small amount of free time I had, and I was spending tons of money eating out because I had no time or energy to cook. Days at a time would pass where DH and I literally didn't see each other besides being asleep in the same bed for about three hours between when I got home and when he left for work. Finally I had to accept the fact that if I worked to the point of injuring myself I might not have a career any more. When I found out that DH's organs are systematically shutting down and there is nothing we can do about it, my priorities got a massive adjustment.

If we cut everything that is truly discretionary it would literally only shave a couple of months off of our payments. Maybe three or four months if we kept it up until the student loans were paid off. But that would mean no TV, no movies, no music other than what we already have, no trips to the museum with my daughter during the short amount of time she is with me, no stopping for frozen yogurt, no paying bills or reading the news online with my smart phone during my train commute so that I don't have to sit at the computer and do it when I get home, no stopping at Subway to pick up something for dinner ever no matter how late I got off work. No Christmas presents. No birthday presents. No taking my parents out for sushi when they visit from Idaho. No spending money on a plane ticket so my DD can visit them on their farm for a week. No hobbies that cost any amount of money. No having a few friends over on my birthday for beer and tacos. For what? So I can start putting that thousand plus dollars a month all into savings a few months earlier? I guess I am just not seeing the benefit. I am not THAT desperate to get the debt paid off. It's not some huge horrible psychic burden that constantly weighs on me.

I am familiar with Dave Ramsey and his methods, but I don't think that following his advice to the letter is the best choice for us.

[hamchan]

Yes, indeed. Just quoting this for truth.



Only two months? Have you done the math on this?

One other thought that may not be welcome: When my former husband was diagnosed with serious congenital neurological issues and had many brain surgeries in a short time, what we decided to spend together wasn't money, but time. I hope you'll take this comment in the spirit it's intended.

I have done the math. But there are some things in my budget you all consider optional that I do not. Haircuts and DH's gym membership to name a couple.

I also want to spend more time with DH, which is why I am no longer working sixty hours a week (with a three hour daily commute). But to me that also includes spending time doing things we like to do together and some of those cost money.

[bigdaddybus]

Sounds like getting a promotion in your current jobs, finding higher paying jobs may be your only options to speed up your payoff if you are unwilling to
1. work longer hours (make more money working)
2. sell off stuff (make more money in other ways)
3. remove unnessessarys from your budget (spend less money)

and that is fine, it just adds time to the payoff

[hamchan]

DH is looking at ways to increase his income with a second career, and has already been promoted at his current job a couple of times. Further promotions are definitely possible. Me on the other hand, the only promotion I could potentially get is to manager and I have zero desire to ever be a manager. The kicker is that managers very often make less than the technicians in my field (this is the case at both of my jobs) They just don't do any real physical labor. That's not appealing to me. I actually love where I work and I love what I do. To me that is worth more than money. If we had extra things to sell then I would sell them. We don't. We are two adults, two cats, two fish, and one part time teenager living in a one bedroom 550 square foot apartment. We avoid buying things we don't need out of necessity.

I am happy with the rate at which we will be able to pay off our debts and save even if nothing changes. I just want to allocate that money as beneficially to us as we can.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Okay right there in your last post you need to move closer to work or find a job closer to home. Commuting 3 hours is ridiculous. Unless what you do is super specialized you can only do it at that one place, what do you do? Then you should move closer if so, and if not then find something else. That way you can work more hours, make more money, see your family without spending 3 hours a day commuting.

That means you are commuting 15/hrs week on top of working 60 hours/week. I don't know what you do but it can't be worth it. MOVE or find a new job. The quality life isn't going to work if your DH ends up in the hospital and you work 1.5 hours away.

I never understood the logic of commuting super far when moving closer saves on gas and all you have to do is live in a smaller space or find a job closer. And i get if it's because you get laid off and your kids are in school and you don't want to move. Then perhaps look for a job closer or move when the opportunity arises.

[hamchan]

I do chair massage at the airport. This is the only place I can do exactly what I do in the environment I do it, and I don't want to give it up. I don't drive so gas prices are not a factor. I could do table massage closer to home, sure, but it would take me a year or longer to be making the same income I am making now at the airport, and I cannot physically work more hours than I do anyway. This job is extremely physically demanding. I love my job and the people I work with, and will stay here as long as I possibly can. I wouldn't be commuting as far as I do for a job I didn't love.

At this time moving closer to the airport isn't an option either because DH has to be at work at 5:30 am and the train/buses don't run early enough. My daughter might be going to high school here anyway, and the schools in South Seattle are ****. Realistically we need to be where we are. DH is blind. It's not easy for him to navigate the buses and trains here by himself and he needs to be able to get around easily on his own. Where we live now he can walk to work, his doctor, the store, and almost anywhere else he might need to go.

[hamchan]

I forgot to say, I don't work 60 hours a week anymore. I do 40 at the most. Anything more is really just not physically sustainable long term.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

$4450 Income

Expenses Needs
$960 Rent
$60 Electric
$210 Plane Tickets
$100 Bus Fare
$298 Child Support
$135 Massage Studio Rental
$17 Liability Insurance
$38 Dis Ins
$20 Cont Ed
$10 Prof Licen
$23 Gym
$400 Groceries
$20 Laundry
$60 Pets
$100 Medical
$60 Haircuts
$50 Massage Therapy
$100 Misc
=$2661 Monthly Bills

Expenses Wants/Luxuries
$150 Cell Phones
$100 Cable
$9 Netflix
$17 Rhapsody, spotify is $9.99
$9 Science Museum
$50 Entertainment
$50 Gifts
$150 Personal Allowances
=$535 Luxuries

Debts
SL 1 $60 $1100 remain
SL 2 $110 $4650
SL 3 $90 $7500
Hospital $150 $2000
CC $144 $650
Taxes $200 $700
= $754 Monthly Debt Payments, owe $16,600 total or 22 months till payoff

Savings
$200 IRA
$150 EF
$50 College
$100 Certificate
=$500 savings

Total Spend $4450

If you put your savings to the debt pay off it will be done in a little over 13 months, 8 months shorter. If you put the luxuries towards it paying $1700/month then you will be done in 10 months or less if you make more.

You spend a lot on luxuries. $150 allowances on top of $50 entertainment but you also have science museum, rhapsody, cable, cell phones, gifts, etc.

I think you need to prioritize which luxuries you want. Also out of the $4450 how much is you and how much is your husband? Are you sure that you can't move and make up the income? Unless you are making the majority of the $4500.

This is just a real look at income, expenses debts, etc.

[bigdaddybus]

Nice work LAL!, cant spell it out much better than that

[hamchan]

Here is what you are missing. Nearly every month we DO make more. An average of at least 500 more. We did the budget based on the smallest amount we can expect to bring in on a month if neither of us is busy or gets any performance bonuses because, A) I haven't been working both of my jobs at this schedule for long enough to have any reliable data so the figures for my income are quite lowballed, and B) we don't want to get caught not having enough. Last month I put a total of 1360 toward debts and savings combined all by myself and that was without having a budget for anything. I know for a fact we spent considerably more than 400 combined on food. DH made payments on the tax bill in addition.

If we cut everything you listed as a luxury we should have no internet at all, no phones at all not even landline, we'd get hit with several hundred dollars for breaking contracts, and I would not be able to replace a pair of pants that wears out or buy a sandwich when I unexpectedly have to stay at work an extra three hours. I wouldn't be able to buy my daughter even an inexpensive birthday present. The budget items you listed include all of those things. Even if we could realistically cut all of those things, that is not an existence that I have any desire to live, not even for two or three months. Even during the brokest moments of my life I managed to get birthday and Christmas gifts for my kid and have some kind of phone service.

Also, I do make more than my DH. At least 2/3 of the total income.