Personal Finance of Spending Time with Your Kids.

**BuckyBadger** · 03-08-2011, 04:01 PM

My parents prepared me for my future by paying for my education and also prepared for their own by saving for their retirement. I really don't think I could have asked for any more than that.

**jpg7n16** · 03-08-2011, 04:10 PM

I think it's the answer to the question: well why do you need money in the first place?

Your idea seems to be, you earn money to pay for kids college, so they can earn money to pay for college, so they can earn money...

but why should anyone earn money in the first place?

I'm one in the -you make money to live and enjoy the company of those you love- camp.

Though I don't see why that time can't be on a weekday. No one said you can only hang out with your kids on the weekend. Or that time spent on Saturday is more important than on Tuesday.

**cypher1** · 03-08-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

She said to me last night that "You are choosing to work weekends and giving up time with your kids. Years ago, I left a job that paid 2x as much because it involved weekends (casino work). I am poorer but happier. I had a father who wasn't around much when I was little to watch my softball games."

The ironic thing is her father is setting her up in a new townhouse so she and his grandkids aren't homeless.

Did you then ask her "So is that why your dad is still taking care of you while you're an adult?"

Over the years my dad has admitted wishing he got to see us kids grow up more, and spend more time at our after school activities. Yet he worked overtime (Post Office), and did part time jobs to help put 5 of us through private schools, family trips, braces (me) on a single income, while my mom mainly raised us. I really don't know how they did it, but I understand he did what he had to do to take care of us. I'm no parent, but my point is I understand parents will sacrifice things for their kids to allow opportunities which they didn't have. I guess one trait I picked up is I'm a workaholic by choice not by need though.

**Scanner** · 03-08-2011, 04:29 PM

Your idea seems to be, you earn money to pay for kids college, so they can earn money to pay for college, so they can earn money...

but why should anyone earn money in the first place?

I'm one in the -you make money to live and enjoy the company of those you love- camp.

Well, I am kind of the belief that money = standard of living.

When you look at countries with the highest standard of living, they measure that in 3 basic terms:

1. Health (longevity, disability)
2. Security (countries where you don't have army jeeps come roaming by every half hour)
3. Education (the populace is literate and failry educated)

Switzerland, Norway, Japan usually score high.

Well, I think the same thing applies to your family on a local level. . .a good neighborhood means a lot (security), college, and healthcare.

**jpg7n16** · 03-08-2011, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

Well, I am kind of the belief that money = standard of living.

When you look at countries with the highest standard of living, they measure that in 3 basic terms:

1. Health (longevity, disability)
2. Security (countries where you don't have army jeeps come roaming by every half hour)
3. Education (the populace is literate and failry educated)

Switzerland, Norway, Japan usually score high.

Well, I think the same thing applies to your family on a local level. . .a good neighborhood means a lot (security), college, and healthcare.

Very true. But I see all of those as means to an end. Why be healthy? Why is security important? And why be educated? I stay healthy to live a long time with those I love, and to have a quality life with them. I value security that the people I love will be safe and secure. I value education, for many reasons - one of which is the ability to get a good job to provide for those you love, and have the time available to spend with them.

I agree with everything you said - but I see all of those as mid-term goals that aren't the end in and of themselves.

If you were stuck in a cell, and had all the healthy food you wanted delivered through your door each day, all the exercise equipment and healthcare you needed, a small army defending your cell, and the books with the knowledge of the world at your fingertips - but you were all alone, would you say that it was worth it to be healthy, secure and educated?

I wouldn't. To me, they are means to an end.

But I still stand by my statement earlier, that you can work the weekends and see your kids. It's the bulk of your business. Why would you have to give that up just for Saturday and Sunday? There are 7 days in a week. I wouldn't give up those weekends if I were in your shoes. I would just find another time to spend with my family. You said yourself that you are off on Tues and Thurs anyways, why aren't those days good enough for her? Is she against days that start with the letter 'T'?

**kork13** · 03-09-2011, 12:17 AM

So.... she's critiquing your fathering? Call me defensive, but what does she know about your family's dynamic?

I dunno, personally I only wonder what YOUR KIDS think. Are they happy with the arrangement that exists? If they enjoy being able to be with Dad during the week and don't care about the weekends, then she doesn't have a (well-adorned) leg to stand on.

As for the more general question, I'm of both minds. Yes, time with family is extremely important--I'm the very last one one to deny that. But providing for your family requires time away from them at work. I grew up in a family of 5 kids with my mother as a school teacher and father working rotating shifts as a military/NOAA meteorologist. Both of them were always working, but they always made and had time for the 5 of us, and that's what matters. Who cares WHEN it is during the week, but simply that you have the TIME to spend with them.

**MonkeyMama** · 03-09-2011, 05:29 AM

Agreed with kork.

We preferred not to work a ton when the kids were very young. That said, if that is what we had to do to provide, I would have no problem with that. We are planners/savers though and planned for a certain level of financial security before having kids. We've been able to have one spouse home, and I rarely work past 5pm, but I *know* that is pure luxury. One of my co-workers one time (very lowly paid - 20 years my senior) told me one time when I came in on a weekend, that life is more important than working weekends. To which I roll my eyes. Work/life balance is extremely important to me, but saying I will never work a weekend will make me worth half my current salary in 20 years. That is what it has gotten this person. Actually, to be more clear, I do work weekends late December through April (tax season), but the kids will survive. I don't care about that. It's 4 months of the year and I work extraordinarily low hours for my industry. It's more of a personal preference so I have the evenings with my kids. I work better if I work a little every day than cram it in 4 or 5 days. Sometimes I work 7 days so I have a chunk of time free both Sat and Sun. For ME as much as for my kids. If I wanted to get all my hours in 5 days, I could. I just don't work well like that, myself. That said, I like my job (sometimes more than my kids), so working every day is no biggie to me. I don't want to do that all year long, but I don't feel like it is some jail sentence when I have to work longer hours. Though I am salaried, I also get paid extra for overtime, which makes the deal more sweet.

Anyway, being of a more balanced mindset, I prefer to work for employers that are more family or work/life balance "friendly," but once I know my time off is respected I will do whatever is asked of me, and more. Sometimes I have to neglect my family for a work deadline. It's not all the time; they will survive.

My immediate thoughts reading that first post was "She must be young." You did mention her age was in her 30s. I think a lot of it is generational. I see smart and responsible people (my age) approaching their careers more in the manner I do. Others may refuse to work a minute of overtime because life balance is too important. For this women, though it seems somewhat generational, she also seems very spoiled. From your post I don't see much that is redeeming about this woman. I don't buy that it's the kids. Seems like me an excuse to just not work. She strikes me as indulgent and lazy.

**Scanner** · 03-09-2011, 05:44 AM

I don't know. .. reflecting on the relationship, no, I wouldn't classify her as lazy, maybe a little indulgent (house is in foreclosure and she gets manicures). She works hard and is a good mom and tries to balance it all like you do. We do seem to have differences on how we regard money. We had a talk about it a bit and she has backed down since she saw me getting all irked.

She just totally doesn't think about money and where it comes from and what it DOES buy.

As per my conversation/difference in worldview with jpg, money does buy things that do make a difference in your kids lives and to me, does often trump "time" with them.

I know sometimes I yearn for the days goneby. . .when my oldest was little and it was only him. . .but I don't know. . ."spending time" to me is what more "grandparenting" is about, vs. "parenting." Parenting is about something else - work mostly - educating, disiplining, providing, protecting.

I do lament though that a lot of times, with my divorce settlement, I am just an "alternate mom" vs. a father. I am basically cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, bathing, laundry, etc. (I know, I know. . .very sexist statement but I am sexist - I do beleive genders are different anatomically and beyond). Mind you, I did all of this in my marriage and never complained or thought of complaining but I would love an opportunity for a more traditional male role in my son's lives. I would love to have time with my oldest to fix up the new house I got and show him "Father-things", even exercise and training. But it what it is. . .the genders have become neutralized in courts. So instead, my commodity of time is spent "mothering" the youngest.

Oh well. You really don't mother or father anymore. YOu only "parent."

Anyway, I am getting off topic. . .sorry. . .and thanks for listening.

**disneysteve** · 03-09-2011, 05:53 AM

Since you stated that this thread wasn't really about money, I'll ask this question: Why on earth are you dating this woman?

1. She is MARRIED. "divorcing" and "stb-x" don't cut it in my book. She is legally married until that divorce decree is signed and sealed.
2. You are someone who cares about your financial well-being. From what you've said, she doesn't seem to share your interest in that department. How she could go out and do the personal pampering and shopping when she has no money to speak of would chase me away in an instant.
3. The two of you clearly have very different views on life, parenting, work, money, etc.

I agree that you need to spend time with your kids. I also agree that you can do so on Monday or Thursday just as well as Saturday or Sunday. Example: Tomorrow night, Thursday, my daughter and I are taking our annual father-daughter trip to the Philadelphia Flower Show. It is something we've done for years and something we both look forward to for months.

All work and no play is not a way to live. But to some extent, you do what you have to do. My wife's father ran a retail business and worked 6 days/week. They virtually never traveled. Never did much of anything together as a family outside of the home. But she still spent plenty of time with him when he was at home. She became a football fan because Sunday was the one day he was home and they would sit together and watch the games.

In our house now, one or more of us is out almost every night. I'm out 3 nights this week, for example, so there isn't always much of any together time those days. But then we almost always make pizza dinner together on Thursdays. And we're usually together on the weekends. Plus we travel together frequently. Last weekend, we spent a couple of days in Lancaster, PA. So we aren't together all the time, but we make sure to get that quality time in.

**Scanner** · 03-09-2011, 06:26 AM

1. She is MARRIED. "divorcing" and "stb-x" don't cut it in my book. She is legally married until that divorce decree is signed and sealed.
2. You are someone who cares about your financial well-being. From what you've said, she doesn't seem to share your interest in that department. How she could go out and do the personal pampering and shopping when she has no money to speak of would chase me away in an instant.
3. The two of you clearly have very different views on life, parenting, work, money, etc.

Well, an interesting topic, DisneySteve. Since you confronted and me and called me out onto the carpet. . .and posted this personal question to me, I'll reply - let's just say physically, we really explode. She was on match dot com, in her defense, it did say "seperated" under her profile and when we met, she swore to me that it was over, that they were proceeding to divorce. . .all they had to do was basically just sign the papers. He's been out of the house for 7 months and she didn't seem to be hiding anything. I invited her and her kids out to the Phila. Car Show just to kind of feel that out if he would care or if she was "hiding" something. NOthing. I asked her multiple times if it was over. Yes, it's over, she said. Well, you can see where this is going.

SHe thought it was over. . .her stb-x didn't think so (even tho he moved out 7 months ago) when her daughter told her.

So, that's my latest drama. . .sheesh. It's tough out there.

It has given me a lot to think about what is important in a relationship.

Of course, a savingadvicee may actually say, "Oh, the non-physical dimension is the most important." I actually know a happily married MD like yourself, about 70 years old who was posed the same question by me and a friend (he's a nephrologist; it's his partner) and said immediately, "Oh, definitely the physical is the most important."

LOL. Didn't even think about it like I am. No complexity in his reply. No pondering about all the things that go into it. Or if he did ponder, he didn't let on.

I dunno. . .maybe he IS right. . .maybe sex is the thing that makes a relationship last and last.

But like you said, the thing I fear is if it werne't there. . .yup, you are right. . .we dont have too much in common other than kids being our same ages and stuff.

**bjl584** · 03-09-2011, 06:37 AM

I dated a gal a few years ago, and like you, we hit it on all cyclinders when it came to the physical stuff. But, also like you, we were worlds apart when it came to finances. The relationship ended after a little less than a year, because I realized that no matter how much of a match we were physically, that we would never see eye to eye when it came to money. And being that financial responsibility and money management are things that are important to me, I knew that this relationship wasn't going to go anywhere longterm. Visions of being married 5 to 10 years down the road started to creep into my head. Visions of my future wife running up credit cards, skipping car payments, and blowing her entire paycheck at the mall were all quite scary indeed. I decided to break it off. I know that I made the right choice.

**disneysteve** · 03-09-2011, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

let's just say physically, we really explode.

But like you said, the thing I fear is if it werne't there. . .yup, you are right. . .we dont have too much in common other than kids being our same ages and stuff.

So you are having a physically satisfying affair with a still-married woman. That's certainly your prerogative to do, but as a guy who has been happily married for nearly 19 years and a child of parents who were happily married for 41 years (until my father's death), I will say that although the physical stuff is certainly important, it is not what makes for a good and long-lasting relationship. JMHO.

One other thing to think about from the parenting point of view is what lessons you are teaching, and wish to teach, your children about adult relationships.

**cypher1** · 03-09-2011, 06:58 AM

While I'm probably the last one who should be criticizing a relationship, my motto has always been "Physical to meet, but personality to keep." I'm all for ya for having "fun" with this person. But if you and her don't have much more in common, besides the kids, that can get dull real quick. However you met her, as Disneysteve said, she's legally married. IMO it just seems like a red flag for a woman (OR man) not even divorced yet, to be dating so quickly. I'm not saying it can't happen, but just seems abrupt to start dating someone while still married. Then again most of the divorced girls I know are in mid/late 20s, with kids, clubbing/bars on the weekends with child support money. Trying to make up for lost time, and find their "identity" as they call it since their significant other held them down apparently.

**Scanner** · 03-09-2011, 07:13 AM

Yeah, well. . . I don't want to make this a "Divorce Support Forum" or anything like that. . .it's not (and feel free to moderate this) but I know it's common (but maybe not talked about) that while a divorce is going on, which may be upwards to 2-3 years in some cases (mine was 18 months), people date because they need intimacy.

I know I did after it was clear my ex-wife was dating (after about 2-3 months). I tried to open up a dialogue with my ex-wife on the subject but was rebuffed. So, admittedly, after 7 months I did.

I guess I would have preferred for the divorce to be final too. . .to guard feelings. . .but again, this seems to be common. You declare you are divorcing and you date.

Anyway, I do have more in common with this other woman. . .so. . .that's why they call it "dating" I guess. Maybe I should just end it.

I didn't mean to typecast her as a spendthrift. . .but she is definitely not a saver from what I can gather. Doesnt' even enter her mind.

She smokes too. . .I don't.

But did I mention the sex is great? LOL.

(please allow me to have my midlife crisis, lol)

But yes, I would like my kids to see a healthy relationship for once. They never had it with my marriage. . . this is my new quest in life.

Personal Finance of Spending Time with Your Kids.