Car window shopping this weekend

**disneysteve** · 12-31-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by jIM_Ohio View Post

I found it interesting that if we want leather seats, we also have to get XM radio. What makes the sales people think if I want to be comfortable that normal radio is not good enough for me?

That's one thing about car shopping that drives me crazy. They put together options packages with things that don't have anything to do with each other. I could see if they bundled XM radio with the upgraded stereo system and more/better speakers, or the in-dash navigation system with the rear view camera, or the better transmission with the better tires and the towing package. But they throw together totally unrelated things. Want the better stereo? Then you have to get the power sunroof. Huh? But I guess that's how they make their money.

**noppenbd** · 12-31-2008, 10:16 AM

On the Toyota Highlander hybrid, I wouldn't buy it for financial reasons. If you want to buy it for environmental reasons, maybe.

Consumer Reports says the regular Highlander gets 18 mpg. The hybrid gets 24 mpg. At 20K miles per year and $1.50 gas, you will only save about $415 a year with the hybrid. Even if gas goes up to $4, you would only save $1100 a year. With gas @ $1.50 your breakeven is 17 years. At $4 the breakeven goes down to 6.5 years, but still a long shot (plus maintenance is likely more expensive on the hybrid).

**jIM_Ohio** · 12-31-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by noppenbd View Post

On the Toyota Highlander hybrid, I wouldn't buy it for financial reasons. If you want to buy it for environmental reasons, maybe.

Consumer Reports says the regular Highlander gets 18 mpg. The hybrid gets 24 mpg. At 20K miles per year and $1.50 gas, you will only save about $415 a year with the hybrid. Even if gas goes up to $4, you would only save $1100 a year. With gas @ $1.50 your breakeven is 17 years. At $4 the breakeven goes down to 6.5 years, but still a long shot (plus maintenance is likely more expensive on the hybrid).

Like the comments thank you.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 12-31-2008, 12:51 PM

Ouch on the breakeven point of hybrid

**tulsa_sr5** · 12-31-2008, 02:58 PM

Got to drive my buddies hybrid highlander for a couple days last summer and loved it. Very cool car and the instant MPG is like a game that appeals to my inner geek. The payback comments are spot on though, didn't really make sense for my buddy even when gas was at 3+ /gal.

I also test drove a 2yr old prius a while back and would really, consider one of those in a couple years. I know that's smaller than the others on your list but at least sit in one if you haven't, they are a lot bigger inside than I expected.

If you are seriously thinking about a hybrid be aware the tech is still evolving really fast. The 2010 prius is supposed to be slightly larger and faster while still getting a little bit better MPG than the current one. Honda also has a new Insight that is going to be really similar to the the prius for sale late next year I believe. Supposedly the new honda will be several thousand less.

**Bimmer** · 12-31-2008, 09:23 PM

I lurk on this forum and rarely post, but I think you have two small kids or twins? So I assume the stroller is a double unit. If it is a single, any good mid-size to large sedan should be able to fit it in the trunk no problem.

We have a 07 VW Passat. We plan to sell it in the spring strictly for financial reasons, otherwise we would keep. You can have three car seats in the rear (given the one in the center is facing opposite the two outer seats). The trunk holds a large single stroller with room to spare for groceries, etc. The turbo motor has good fuel efficiency (we see 31-34 mpg highway), yet has a lot of power when needed for passing, etc. It has been perfectly reliable in two years of ownership.

Take your stroller and test fit it in the various vehicles you drive. The Rogue and similar (CRV, RAV4) might be too small and would not make much sense over a sedan (Altima, Accord, Camry, etc) unless AWD is desired.

Forget the hybrid, or at least hold out until the next wave of them hits during the next two years or so. The Prius line is expanding, and might in fact become its own brand (like Scion/Lexus are Toyota brands). In general, more electrics and better hybrids will be out there soon. If I remember right, some of the tax breaks for the current hybrids are going bye-bye as well.

**poundwise** · 01-01-2009, 05:31 AM

Are you only considering brand new vehicles? You can save a ton of money, and avoid the drastic depreciation, while still getting a nearly new, low mileage vehicle, if you buy something that is 2 or 3 years old. Bonus: You can also see if the vehicle has had any recalls or issues in that time-frame.

Another thought: You also typically save money buying from an individual as opposed to a dealer as the latter sells at retail while private-party valuation is a lesser figure. (Though now may be a good time to buy from dealers, many of whom are hurting for sales.)

**tulsa_sr5** · 01-01-2009, 05:44 AM

Another tip, there's a website trying to compile real world reliablity stats, sort of like consumer reports but with more info. It's worth signing up I think to look at the data on different cars, and you can dig in and see what sorts of repairs people have. You do have to fill out mileage and repair surveys every quarter I think to remain a member but it's pretty easy. You can see partial info without signing up though.

I'm not affiliated other than being a member, site is truedelta dot com

**jIM_Ohio** · 01-01-2009, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by poundwise View Post

Are you only considering brand new vehicles? You can save a ton of money, and avoid the drastic depreciation, while still getting a nearly new, low mileage vehicle, if you buy something that is 2 or 3 years old. Bonus: You can also see if the vehicle has had any recalls or issues in that time-frame.

Another thought: You also typically save money buying from an individual as opposed to a dealer as the latter sells at retail while private-party valuation is a lesser figure. (Though now may be a good time to buy from dealers, many of whom are hurting for sales.)

Probably new only. dw puts around 20k miles per year on car. New car might last 10 years, used would be 4-7 and I don't want another car payment in 4 years.

**disneysteve** · 01-01-2009, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by jIM_Ohio View Post

New car might last 10 years, used would be 4-7 and I don't want another car payment in 4 years.

I'm not sure that makes sense, Jim. The used car would be cheaper. You wouldn't have to borrow as much now. So even if you had a payment now, it would be smaller and for a shorter term than if you bought a new car. By the time you would replace that car, you might not need to borrow anything for the next one if you keep setting money aside in a car fund.

I think the sweet spot on most used cars is 2-3 years old. They've already suffered maximum depreciation rate but still have low mileage and original warranties in effect.

Being someone who drives a lot of miles can actually be an advantage in a way. If you buy a new car, in 2 years, it will have 40,000 miles. Most people don't drive that much, though, so you could buy a 2-year-old model that will probably only have 24,000 or so. It will have fewer miles than if you owned it and you'll pay a lot less than for the new one.

**GREENBACK** · 01-01-2009, 07:11 AM

I think It's important to remember that vehicles can last a lot longer nowadays even with a lot of mileage. I remember when 100k was pretty much the end of a vehicles usefullness and you were left with a rusted heap of junk. You now see cars in excess of 150k without a spot of rust on them and it seems to get better every year.

It makes the new vs. used debate a lot tougher than it used to be.

**red92s** · 01-01-2009, 07:41 AM

My mom got a Murano new back in 2005. My parents have been pleased with it so far, nearing 30k miles now. It has a very nice ride and plenty of space for my mom and her dogs. The leather interior has held up great, even with doggy claws on it several times per week. I don't think they have had any non-routine maintenance issues. My mom was skeptical of the "smart key" system at first, where the car detects your proximity to the car and allows you to unlock or start it without a key . . . she now LOVES not having to dig her keys out of her purse or fumble around in the rain.

We have the 18" wheels that come standard on the SL models, and replacing the tires (soon) won't be cheap. Also, the gas mileage is less than stellar, even with the nifty CVT transmission, but maybe that has improved on the recently released and updated models.

**zetta** · 01-01-2009, 08:29 AM

You might also consider taking a look at some of the Suburu vehicles.

I second Steve's suggestion to look at cars that are about 2 years old with 20,000 miles -- you'll save a bundle.

**jIM_Ohio** · 01-01-2009, 09:00 AM

Part of the issue is talking the wife into the used car. I pick my battles. Wife let me increase 401k for her 3 percent with no raise to make up for income loss in 2009... so if the 3 percent 401k raise costs me a new car every 10 years, I am OK with that.

The plan is for wife to get new car.
When my 2004 ridgeline dies around 2014 I get wife's old car
she gets the replacement.

I doubt she'll want used, we will see.

Car window shopping this weekend