wealth distribution

[buzz]

I love how people label any form of taxation as "wealth redistribution" but yet they drive on the roads, enjoy the safety from our army, and a common currency.

Yes, I beleive in taxing the rich for two reasons.

1. It works.

All you have to do is compare Clintonian Economics (he taxed the rich and we had record economic expansion) and Bush Economics (he cut taxes and we have bank runs) to know that despite the Rush Limbaugh rhetoric, it is healthy to apply a tax to the rich.

2. It's fair.

American's wealth has slowly been concentrating into the hands of the few. That is to say, the middle class has been steadily eroding. DisneySteve posted a factoid the other day that since 1989, household income has risen .5% with inflation but college has risen 53%.

Since the rich have enjoyed the benefits of what America has offered them (more and more wealth), it is only fair that they would receive a higher share of burden, no?

Anything else. . .well, it's just rancid Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly piffle.

I'm sorry. I can read hogwash with amusement, but when I see the term "Clinton economy" or one of it's derivatives, I feel compelled to correct it with "Microsoft/Intel economy", or something similar. The digital explosion was so powerful, even Clinton and her husband couldn't mess it up.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Definitely there is a lot of reasons why Clinton years were good and the internet was a large part.

But right now under Bush, you have to admit that the rich have gotten richer and the middle class and poor have become poorer. You are lucky if you are moving towards rich, but it's definitely getting harder to stay there!

Before a middle class lifestyle was so much easier. People had smaller homes, one income, but also utilites, food, college was cheaper. Retirement was pension based and not based on ourselves saving. We had employer provided health insurance, now it's not a guarantee and for sure not during retirement anymore!

So now to retire like my parents i have to save 10x more than they did. My mom retired at 55 with $100k in a 401k. She didn't save for retirement because she has a pension worth 70% of her income for LIFE. She also gets free medical for her AND my dad for life. So zero Out of Pocket after medicare! She had free prescriptions for life.

Can you imagine what I have to do to retire with that? How that was once considered middle class? That everyone she knows school teachers, nurses, etc are all retiring with that?

And now? Even if you are a state or federal worker, there's been reform. You get insurance but not 100%. You get insurance only for yourself. You no longer get 2% per year of service. Instead you get 1% for years of service.

[cptacek]

I agree there is a middle ground. I would say that taxes are necessary for infrastructure (roads, army, etc) and to help the truly needy. The problem is, where the line for needy is drawn.

Truly poor, sick, disabled, yes...they need help. But then, scanner, two posts after your post, LivingAlmostLarge insinuates that we owe people a nice retirement as well. So, there is a huge swath between marxism and unbridled capitalism. I admit it is easier to attack people's positions and assign them to the extremes.

But, when you say "wealth redistribution" I think it implies taking money from the rich as a punishment for being successful and giving it to the poor because they deserve a good life regardless of effort. That term is not usually used to imply using the money for the common good.

[Scanner]

I think the whole problem is when you ask a middle class person if they think Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Stephen Jobs, ought to be successful and enjoy the fruits of their success, they will generally say yes - they deserve it.

But the Conservatives think the middle class wants to be pandered to. I disagree with Conservatives - the middle class generally doesn't want to be pandered to.

No, all they want is to enjoy in the "A rising tide lifts all boats."

Unfortunately, a rising tide of this decade did not lift all boats.

It lifted the yachts and a lot of little rowboats got swamped.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

my little boat is trying to build out into a yacht. It's not really working very quickly. I think my boat is sinking right now, or at least it feels that way.

[tripods68]

It's fair.

American's wealth has slowly been concentrating into the hands of the few. That is to say, the middle class has been steadily eroding. DisneySteve posted a factoid the other day that since 1989, household income has risen .5% with inflation but college has risen 53%.

Anything else. . .well, it's just rancid Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly piffle.

There is no such thing Fair Tax in the current tax code. Case in point 1: Warren Buffet paid 17% in taxes.

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary


Case point 2: 40+ Million Americans DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES. Majority of them got REFUNDs instead.

It's interesting to hear people complain about the cost of $700 Bailout plan or the growing cost of the IRAQ war or the highways/roads we drive daily. 1 of 6 of those people that complains DO NOT EVEN PAY THEIR TAXES uummm....

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million