New car vs. used car conundrum

[Scanner]

Okay, everyone here knows I am a huge used car fan. So much so, I have only owned one new car in my life and that was only because I just wanted my wife to have one.

In fact, I bought her a Toyota Matrix about 4 years ago and it still has only 32K on it. . .we'll probably own it for another 10-15 years at our rate, only to be passed on to a child or whatever.

Anyway, we had our 3rd child about 3 weeks ago and I am thinking of a minivan.

My 1999 Ford Taurus, which I have no complaints on, has 92K on it, and I dunno, I could probably get $2500 for it by throwing a sign on it and parking it near a major road.

Anyway. . .usually, I would hunt for a good used minivan but here's the conundrum.

For some reason, years ago, I decided for my business to get a Ford Citibank card. I have used this for my business. Anyway, I have like $650 in "rebates" towards the purchase or lease of any new car (they converted to Citibank Driver's Edge).

I am now at "equilibrium" with the rebates. . .for what I spend for supplies at my business, the same amount I put on basically comes off in "unused" rebate dollars.

I know I should just change to a different rewards program but I dunno. . .I have just had this account for years and I had my card stolen once I like their service on theft so I have been loyal.

So. . .this $650 is kind of burning a hole in my pocket so to speak.

Anyway, I thought about getting a new minivan and then, my God, we'd be set for years with the amount of mileage we put on our cars.But I would need an auto loan to go with a new van. I could probably put down 5-10K and finance the rest.

Or should I just leave the $650 on the table?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

You can use the driver's rebates for repairs to the matrix. So it's a moot point.

The question is what do you want with regards to a car? I would personally not buy an American Minivan. And thus because of that prejudice, I would buy a new Toyota or Honda Minivan.

Soley because there is minimal savings in buying a used Toyota or Honda where I live.

[Scanner]

No, I don't think it's good for repairs, only towards the purchase of a new car. Yes, I redeemed my points the last time we bought a new car ( the Matrix).

Besides. . .we have had none.

I am not foreign car loyal.

[tripods68]

Congratulations!

Honda Odyssey on JD Powers #1 ranking in Minivan with highest dependable/reliability in it's class.

[Scanner]

Actually, I just learned (thanks to L.L.) that it's good for a used car purchase and/or repairs.

So. . .it's a no-brainor now. . .I'll just get a good used car.

As far as Honda and Toyota, yes, I agree. . .they are good cars (after all, we own a Toyota). But I am not a Honda/Toyota cultist to the point that I'll just pay for the name.

Chrysler Town and Country
Nissan Quest
Toyota Sienna
and actually Chevrolet Uplander are on my list.

Besides, we owned a Honda Civic at one point and it wasn't "all that." It had it's share of repairs and the air conditioner never worked right from day 1 of purchase. I want my car like an ice box, not for it to spit out luke cold air. We took it back 2-3x and the service center just shook it's shoulders with "I dunno. It's working fine."

[tripods68]

The fact if is our Odyssey is giving us 23 mpg so it's no brainer. Oh by the way, you can get a new Odyssey for less than $26K too. Use Van for less than $20K. It's not a rocket science.

[Scanner]

Tripod,

Yes, I agree but IMO, you pay about a $3000-5000 premium (depending on how well cars are moving at any one point in time) for the Honda/Toyota name.

I'd rather take the $4000 average and just "save it" for repairs. Sure, there is the headache factor but we mostly live close to 2 of our 3 jobs we hold so having a car in the repair shop for a day or two isn't a disaster.

I just don't find dealing with Honda salesmen to be a great experience. They know there is the consumer psychology with paying for the name so they are harder to deal with.

Therefore, even after the Civic we owned and we looked at a CR-V. We got within $800 of the price and I had to walk. My father-in-law, a very good negotiator (I'm average), couldn't believe we were that close and the salemen let me go. Actually, I don't think he could beleive I walked, lol. He tends to sit there and haggle and haggle and haggle and haggle.

Again, it's the whole Honda buyer culture, I guess. I don't find it so much so with Toyota's.

Just one person's opinion.

[Aleta]

Scanner: Congratulations on the new baby.

[Scanner]

Thank you very much.

[eisor]

Actually, I just learned (thanks to L.L.) that it's good for a used car purchase and/or repairs.

So. . .it's a no-brainor now. . .I'll just get a good used car.

As far as Honda and Toyota, yes, I agree. . .they are good cars (after all, we own a Toyota). But I am not a Honda/Toyota cultist to the point that I'll just pay for the name.

Chrysler Town and Country
Nissan Quest
Toyota Sienna
and actually Chevrolet Uplander are on my list.

Besides, we owned a Honda Civic at one point and it wasn't "all that." It had it's share of repairs and the air conditioner never worked right from day 1 of purchase. I want my car like an ice box, not for it to spit out luke cold air. We took it back 2-3x and the service center just shook it's shoulders with "I dunno. It's working fine."

I have the Drivers Edge card. It is good for New/Used Car purchases and auto repairs.

You can also transfer the money to their rewards program, Thank You Network. 100 rebates = $100 giftcard

I love the Driver's Edge card b/c you get one point for every mile you drive. It's great!

I have redeemed points for auto repairs & also transferred points to Thank You Network.

You have a bunch of options for your $650.

[tripods68]

Scanner,

There is no such thing as Premium Price on new cars. YOu either pay closer to Invoice price, MSRP, or MarkUP Price. So if you are referring the "Premium Price" referring to MSRP or Markup price, then the dealer is taking you to the cleaner IMO.

Personally, I never owned cars which I paid MSRP or MarkUp price. My 06 Odyssey just paid little over $400above Invoice. All cars is all negotiable but even better if it offers Rebates.

Use Cars - No premium price either. You negotiate based on KBB.

[Scanner]

What I mean by premium price is that for all things equal. . .you have either a minivan, an economy car, a pick-up truck in front of you (pick whatever) and it costs let's say $20,000 to build and most other dealers sell it for $25,000 profit giving the manufactuer and dealer $5000 in profit to split however they split it. . .a Honda and Toyota will sell it for $28,000.

I know I am comparing Stayman apples and Winesap Apples but I think it's still an Apples and Apples comparison. (I am not comparing a Beetle to a minivan).

I am saying in certain instances, a premium is worth it. For example, I pay a "premium" for Kingsford Charcoal. . .because I have bought 'no-name" brands and then stand around the kettle grill waiting for the briquets to ash over.

Sometimes, the premium isn't worth it.

IMO, the premium for a Honda isn't worth it

[disneysteve]

While I don't consider myself a cultist, I don't feel the "premium" for Toyotas and Hondas is for name only. I think they truly are better made vehicles. They also tend to maintain higher resale values which could be a consideration down the line, though I honestly don't consider that personally because I plan to keep our vehicles forever. Our current minvan is a 2000 Sienna. We bought it used in 2002 with 34K miles. It now has 105K and we have no plans to replace it anytime soon. I'm hoping for another 3 years or so.

I'd look around at used Siennas and Odysseys before I considered a new Ford. Actually, I personally wouldn't even consider a new Ford even with the $650, but that's just me.

[tripods68]

BTW I'm not here to sell you Honda or Toyota.

Not all cars are made built the same nor cost the same. So you will never know what the price you ought to pay. You can only go by the Invoice or MSRP on Edmunds.com. You have to compare cars/van, 2 doors versus 4 doors, with similar options in similar model of what you looking for. For example, if you looking to buy Minivan then you compare similar MiniVans (like Chrysler Town and Country, Nissan Quest, Sienna, Plymouth Dodge). Enuff said.

[Scanner]

While I don't consider myself a cultist, I don't feel the "premium" for Toyotas and Hondas is for name only. I think they truly are better made vehicles. They also tend to maintain higher resale values

DisneySteve,

That's because there is the Honda/Toyota cult. . .see how consumer psychology works? The companies are masterfully creating a "cult following."

You don't think it's all quality, do you? If so, I have a bridge 90 miles north of you I'd like to sell you.

(BTW. . .I think the Honda cult is stronger than the Toyota cult but that's just an unscientific assessment)

Yes, I agree too. . .they are better made vehicles. . .the question of the year is. . .how much better are they worth it?

$1000 or $2000. . .yes. . .that's worth it IMO.

$3000-5000. . .no. . .that's not worth it.

Mercedez. . .$20,000. . .no. . .that's not worth it either.

Everyone's price point is different, I realize.

BTW, this consumer psychology/pricing discussion goes beyond just price with brand. I have seen it the other way with American trucks being "tough." Each American truck company seems to have a cult following. (Chevy, Dodge, Ford). Why a person won't entertain a Toyota and would pay more for an American truck built "Ford Tough" is beyond me but again, American car co.'s spend millions/year to get people to think that way.

Some of it probably is predicated on truth. . .some of it. . .just cult following.