Separating the want from need

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Do you guys ever have temptations of buying newer stuff? I ask because it was hard today to repair our Ford Focus. When DH called with another $900 in repairs on top the $1200 we spent last month I just had to keep mentally tough. Our focus has 80k miles and is a 2000.

I had to tell myself it's cheaper to fix our car than buying even a newer used one. My one concern about used is I'm not sure how it's really been treated versus our own piece of crap.

I knew this was the hardest challenge for us ever. I had a moment where i thought it would be so much easier to go out and buy a new or newer/used car. Plus well the car is crappy, so you can't really justify repairing a great car. But we haven't the cash, well we have cash but it's not to be used for a car. So instead we just have to nurse the Focus along.

I really was tempted though because I have almost $10k in cash to be used to fund our Roth IRA for the year and I know we have more money coming in earmarked for other things. But there are too many other goals that need to be accomplished.

I guess it's really hard sometimes to be frugal. And I feel like I'm depriving myself and DH for what? I know DH would love a newer car, but I can't help but thing we're still not able to afford it.

I think it's even harder knowing that we make a decent wage and yet we drive very simple cars. But I told DH, if we can nurse the Focus till we get pregnant, then we can justify buying a newer car. We will buy a new car because we'd like 4 doors and newer safety features. Do you think that is a reasonable compromise? Our other car is a 1999 Toyota Corolla which has no problems and will likely run forever.

[tripods68]

I feel your pain.

Don't get trap in justifying high repairs cost versus buying a brand new car just to avoid dealing with the "headaches". In the end its still an expensive proposition. If you are concern about future repairs cost buy only quality cars like Japanese. Trading your car for another used car might justify the cost but you have to run the numbers to makes sense.

The biggest mistakes for me was owning Americans cars (ford and dodge). I've learned not buy anymore US made cars (Ford, Dodge, or GMC) because of poor qualities during the productions (althought that could be changing), recall incidents (still a problem), and high repair cost of unexpected expenses. I last owned Dodge 95 Avenger and it cost me arms/leg of maintenances and repairs. To many things wrong with that car. Since then I've owned 4 Japanese cars (2 were sold) and currently owned: Honda Odyssey and Nissan Altima which I might also add holds their depreciation value better than most domestic cars. I never had any repair problems except maintenance cost....call me bias

[Seeker]

I also empathize.

But you probably should base "replacement" on the types of repairs that are being needed.

If it's engine related, then I'd probably go with replacing rather than repairing. But if it's one-time and overdue repairs (like maybe the timing belt due for replacement at 80k miles or 90k), then it's a worthy repair. But then again if you find yourself spending $500 or more every month -- when is it more cost efficient to replace?

A 2000 Ford Focus with 80K miles is probably nearing the end of it's life simply because it's an American built car. I too tend to trust the Japanese cars a 100% more than American built autos; and I've personally driven both (as has DH -- though he had a good Ford Escort at one time).

[Gruntina]

I did buy a used newer model Ford Escape after so many breakdown of the Pontiac firebird I used to have. I caved!!!

Do I regret it? It’s a hard question for me to answer. For giving up the Pontiac Firebird was a no brainer so no regrets there

I got fed up with the firebird as I missed on average of 5 days a year at work because it would break down when trying to go down the hill and then I am too far away from the city for immediate help. I paid for several repairs as it was a never ending cycle. I was more tired of the disruption it did with my day to day living than paying for the car’s repairs to be honest.

The Ford Escape which I absolutely love and she has been behaving beautifully so far and now is at 40K miles. My husband is a Ford technician and can always fix the Ford if something to happen to it. I would steer far away from Ford cars as they are not as well built as the trucks and SUVs model (This has always been the history of Fords trucks do better than the Ford cars)

The Ford Escape fits me to a T with my needs of hauling a lot of big items as well as needing the 4 wheel drive to get in my driveway. I also live a good 45 minutes away from any grocery stores so I always have big purchases. (Remy I had the firebird? Carrying groceries in that car was impossible unless I only had like 4 bags and less. This is another reason for caving into buying a different vehicle.

The only regret is that I wished I bought an even older Escape so it would have been cheaper to begin with. I will not part with what I have and it is really tough to find older cars with decent miles in the Bay Area because people drive more miles annually here with all the commute and all the city's events is offered to the public.

My only suggestion is if you are on your wit's end, search for another car and determine how much you would have to pay. Once you get that amount, imagine what else you could do with that money and if that "other idea" is more appealing don't get the newer car.

[m3racer]

Don't buy an American car!!!! They're pieces of junk. Now you know from your personal experience. the key to buying a reliable and nice used car is getting a pre-purchase inspection from a reliable mechanic. Buying a car shouldn't be a guessing game. It's too bad most people think that way.

[MonkeyMama]

This sounds more like a "is it worth it to keep this particular car" thing than a wants vs. needs thing.

Likewise, you could probably spend very little money for a significant upgrade in car (maybe not in looks or style. But a reliable car can be found pretty cheap).

Of course, if you are not quite ready to upgrade all the way to a family friendly car, go half way now, and upgrade further later. That is certainly always an option. Get a nice 2-3 year old car that will hold its value. Sell it and buy what you want later. I figure the Focus, like our 2001 Escort, is pretty worthless at this point. But doesn't mean your next car will be worthless when you are ready to upgrade. We've had a couple of cars we drove for 3-4 years that we sold for about what we paid for them...

Anyway, this is one area I have no problem with. Cars are just such a money drain. I am perfectly happy to have more cash and less car.

[maat55]

I'm not a fan of 4 cylinder american cars, but 6's are ok. Either your paying way too much for repairs or you practically have a new car.

I have an 87 ford van with 130,000 miles and still going strong. I gave my father-in-law my 88 silverado with 175,000 and it still runs good. 4 cylinders are money pits. Sell it while it's worth something and move up in engine.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No I don't think the answer is moving up in engine. I do not want to pay more in gas. That is unnecessary. Thinking bad thoughts about the environment. As it is, I try to use public transit for the most part. DH does most of the driving, but I like to drive and park at the station, but since the weather is great now I bike or walk.

So I doubt I'll ever own a 6 or 8 cylinder. This 2000 Ford Focus was bought new, not used. But yep the concern is whether to trade it in for another new/newer used car or not.

And if we wait, it will likely be a brand spanking new car we'll keep for another 10+ years. I think I priced it out and fully repaired the focus is worth $3-4k. People are looking for beater cars for commuting. But I get better gas mileage on the corolla, so DH mostly drives that I used the Ford to go 1.5 miles.

In one month we've replaced the serpentine belt, thermostat, engine valves, and alternator. I think it's just age and well I don't think Fords are built well. Only speculation based on the fact I have a Corolla treated the exact same with none of the problems.

[Seeker]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you Living. It's not the number of cylinders that makes one car "better" than another (what is power if it doesn't work?), but it's the manufacturing process that determines the quality.

I've driven two American cars that were 6 cylinder and both failed me; one at 83k miles (and 13 years old; obtained used) and one after 4 years (obtained new) and I don't remember how many miles (but I do remember parts flying off the underside of the car on the highway and people honking at me to warn me.... Luckily no accident, but I got rid of it soon after it was repaired).

And I've driven two Japanese cars - both 4 cylinder. One lasted 13 years and I sold it and bought another because I just grew tired of it and it was getting rather noisey. And now this Japanese car which has lasted 9 years so far (100k miles), is much quieter, and I still love driving it.... and I suspect that it will outlive the previous Japanese car. Nor does it have any problem with hills even though it's 4-cylinder.

... because it was hard today to repair our Ford Focus. When DH called with another $900 in repairs on top the $1200 we spent last month I just had to keep mentally tough. Our focus has 80k miles and is a 2000.

In one month we've replaced the serpentine belt, thermostat, engine valves, and alternator. I think it's just age and well I don't think Fords are built well. Only speculation based on the fact I have a Corolla treated the exact same with none of the problems.

You've spent $2100 in the last two months and the car is worth 3-4k. You've paid more than 50% of that in two months? Wow. I'd have replaced it this month when faced with that $900 bill coming so soon after the $1200.

The parts you quote do not have very high costs, it's probably the labor that's killing you. Are you getting service at the car dealership? If so, I would advise going elsewhere for service; prices are often higher at dealerships.

Most people look at "repairs" and will do it if the cost of repairing is less than 1/3 the cost of replacing the item. You've sort of exceeded that standard.

Autos are different in the sense that they are a hassle when not working and we depend on them for our livlihood; so they have to work when we need them to. But then again, you only need to go 1.5 miles to get to where you need to go.

For you since you do have a second Corolla, and you only need to go 1.5 miles, then you may have other spending/saving priorities.

Only you can really determine when to stop paying on this car and move on...

[Brokemofo]

If you just spent $2100 in 2 months, I think you did buy a car in a sense. I would keep the Ford for now. Since fixing it, you may find it will run another 80k miles. If and when you buy another car do make sure it's a good japanese one like your Toyota.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No, but moments like this makes me wonder. The second car is a luxury. One which has cost only insurance to have since we took a major hit on depreciation. Since I don't know what the future holds we've never sold the second car. Which used to be an absolute necessity when we lived in CA.

My problem is do we really just sell a car for $3k (the ford) and live on one car? It would save use not much on insurance because MA is driver based not car based so we'd still have to pay for 2 drivers.

And then when we need two cars, which has happend, then what? Or a car breaks down? I guess we'd make do, but it's a luxury we can afford for me to enjoy driving to the station during the winter instead of walking or biking. I've considered it for 2 years now whether to give it up but the cars have been paid for and we like the conveince of a hatchback. But I see your point about paying for a newer/used car.

Edited to add $450 was spent on rims for the ford focus (3 new rims) because DH keeps hitting pot holes, so they are bent beyond repair. The repairs weren't $1200 last month for all the work it included new rims ordered online.

And his car is the special ediciton so the rims are 16 inch not 15 and they were alloy or something.

[Gruntina]

It's not the number of cylinders that makes one car "better" than another (what is power if it doesn't work?), but it's the manufacturing process that determines the quality.

My husband is an auto technician. I asked him about the 4 cylinders vs. 6 cylinders. He says in generally (all brands of cars) 6 cylinders last longer than 4 cylinders because on the 4 cylinders, your engine is working harder to carry and move the vehicle around. Especially, if your one to stop your car often in traffic or not being graceful with your slowdown prior to stopping and your car's cylinders will have a shorter life term. The 6 cylinders have a bigger engine which makes your car's work less as hard as the 4 cylinders.

As far as the 8 cylinders, its too powerful for a day to day use cars unless you use it for work hauling heavy trailers or equipments or work on a farm.


I do recall a lot of people on this site confuse the bigger engine with having more speed which is not the purpose at all.

[Brokemofo]

No, but moments like this makes me wonder. The second car is a luxury. One which has cost only insurance to have since we took a major hit on depreciation. Since I don't know what the future holds we've never sold the second car. Which used to be an absolute necessity when we lived in CA.

My problem is do we really just sell a car for $3k (the ford) and live on one car? It would save use not much on insurance because MA is driver based not car based so we'd still have to pay for 2 drivers.

And then when we need two cars, which has happend, then what? Or a car breaks down? I guess we'd make do, but it's a luxury we can afford for me to enjoy driving to the station during the winter instead of walking or biking. I've considered it for 2 years now whether to give it up but the cars have been paid for and we like the conveince of a hatchback. But I see your point about paying for a newer/used car.

Edited to add $450 was spent on rims for the ford focus (3 new rims) because DH keeps hitting pot holes, so they are bent beyond repair. The repairs weren't $1200 last month for all the work it included new rims ordered online.

And his car is the special ediciton so the rims are 16 inch not 15 and they were alloy or something.

Potholes? Sounds like he is hitting curbs or hard headed children . $450 is a lot to spend on rims for a beater focus. You can get plain steel wheels for $25 each new from online vendors. I bought 4 wheels and snow tires new for the winter months for $450 including tires, wheels, lugs, etc.

[maat55]

No, but moments like this makes me wonder. The second car is a luxury. One which has cost only insurance to have since we took a major hit on depreciation. Since I don't know what the future holds we've never sold the second car. Which used to be an absolute necessity when we lived in CA.

My problem is do we really just sell a car for $3k (the ford) and live on one car? It would save use not much on insurance because MA is driver based not car based so we'd still have to pay for 2 drivers.

And then when we need two cars, which has happend, then what? Or a car breaks down? I guess we'd make do, but it's a luxury we can afford for me to enjoy driving to the station during the winter instead of walking or biking. I've considered it for 2 years now whether to give it up but the cars have been paid for and we like the conveince of a hatchback. But I see your point about paying for a newer/used car.

Edited to add $450 was spent on rims for the ford focus (3 new rims) because DH keeps hitting pot holes, so they are bent beyond repair. The repairs weren't $1200 last month for all the work it included new rims ordered online.

And his car is the special ediciton so the rims are 16 inch not 15 and they were alloy or something.

Go to a salvage yard or a discount tire store and ask for used rims, you are paying way to much for auto repairs. The reason guy's like tools is because we can save lots of money when we use them. DH needs to get his hands dirty.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I did try 3 different salvage yards. Unfortunately because of the special edition Focus Kona we are unable to get regular Focus rims. They need to be the 16 inch rims. Hence there were none available that fit. And I bought them on Ebay. These are steel ones instead of the super expensive stupid alloy ones DH bought before. Yes it's something that should have been considered before buying the car, however it's done.

But I've had a standing order calling ever week for rims for a special focus. Can't be done.