Fix Healthcare

[rooskers]

I think fixing the health care system is about as likely as getting the entire nation to start saving for an emergency fund, retirement and getting out of debt. Its not going to happen.

And to change healthcare, why not start teaching prevention like how to care for your body by watching your weight?

Teaching only works to a certain degree. Like I said before we teach kids not to smoke or do drugs and yet it is still an epidemic.

Likely what will happen in the future is what is happening right now. If you are wealthy you will just hire a private doctor. If you have a career job that is lucky enough to provide decent health coverage you will have some type of network doctor who will be overworked but at least you can see him/her within a resonable timeframe. Then there will be the majority who will get subpar care from doctors who are extremely overworked and your wait time may run into the years instead of months. This will happen regardless of the changes made.

* Ability for the patient to compare price and quality of the healthcare services offered. (Admittedly this is very difficult)
* A payment structure that gives the patient motivation to compare cost and quality and choose accordingly.
* An incentive structure so that patients are motivated to live a healthy lifestyle and utilize appropriate preventive care.
* Catastrophic coverage so that getting cancer or runover by a truck, etc doesn't put a patient into bankruptcy.
* Motivation for doctors, hospitals, drug companies, and insurers to become more efficient and improve quality of care.

Now I am not saying that we shouldn't strive to do all we can to try and make positive changes because we should. I am saying that even if all these changes were to happen it wouldn't be enough. The amount of people who live in poverty would still put to much pressure on the medical system regardless of the payment structures, cost comparison and incentive structures it would still cost too much money.

[disneysteve]

* Ability for the patient to compare price and quality of the healthcare services offered. (Admittedly this is very difficult)

Ok. Getting back to topic, NJ became the first state in the country to start an online registry of pharmaceutical prices. No longer does a patient have to call around to various pharmacies to find out how much a prescription will cost. Now he can go onine (New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs) and search the NJ Prescription Drug Registry. Pharmacies have to post prices on the 150 most commonly prescribed drugs and update them on a monthly basis.

I think that is a good start, at least on the medication front.

[Scanner]

And by the way I'd rather be my great-grandma at 99 and grandma at 79 than dead Dr. Atkins at 72. My dad is already 76, and multiple family members have reached 90 easily. Most of my family lives past 90, Japan is the longest lived nation and they eat white rice.

Not me. I don't want to live to be 99.

Wow - what a burden to our SSI system. Supporting people for 35 years.

I definitely want to go out like Dr. ATkins - a slip and fall.

And there is no evidence to support that he was going to be dorked up on heart disease meds and dead at 80. Even if he was, pretty amazing for a bacon and egg diet of living past the median age for a male, right?

I know people are disappointed how this thread has gone but I still stay it illustrates that Americans don't want alternatives. They want to keep on doing more of the same, expecting different results.

WHat's the definition of insanity?

GO on. Recommend portion control, low fat broccoli and carrots, put some Lipitor in the drinking water and oh, throw in some aerobic exercise on a treadmill too.

[disneysteve]

For a snack on the run, grab some bacon.

Do you and/or LivingLarge dispute this?

Are you really telling me and this forum that 4 rice cakses (or let's even add more calories and say 5 rice cakes) are going to make me or another American feel as full as 4 slices of bacon?

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I would never suggest that someone snack on something laden with saturated fat, cholesterol and sodium. You aren't going to convince me that those things consititute "health" food.

At the same time, though, I would also never recommend that someone eat 5 rice cakes in one sitting. The recommended serving size for a rice cake is 1 cake. And rice cakes have virtually zero nutritional value. They have no fat, but they also have no protein, no fiber, pretty much nothing. If you want a snack that will fill you up, you need something with some bulk to it, something with fiber, something whole grain. Perhaps a slice of whole wheat bread with natural peanut butter or soy nut butter.

Everybody is different, but I can tell you that when I or my wife eats a fatty meal, we feel sick, we feel sluggish and tired afterwards. When we eat foods rich in nutrients and high in fiber, we feel full and satisfied but not bloated or weighed down. We feel energetic, not somnolent.

To each his own. Let's get back to solving the healthcare problems of the country...

[PrincessPerky]

You know it never occurred to me that a prescription price could differ much. I think NJs list for easy online comparison is pretty nifty.

On drs getting paid for labs, I know no one on here would pile on labs just to get paid, but I also know Drs who would. I don't know that there is a solution for Drs testing for no reason..after all we trust Drs to know what tests might be needed, we don't have medical degrees!

[disneysteve]

You know it never occurred to me that a prescription price could differ much.

Prices can be dramatically different. A month's supply of medicine could vary by $50 or more between pharmacies. A patient can save hundreds or thousands by shopping around. This goes for cash patients AND insured patients since some plans pay a percentage of cost or with Medicare D plans, have a cap per year.

[Scanner]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I would never suggest that someone snack on something laden with saturated fat, cholesterol and sodium. You aren't going to convince me that those things consititute "health" food.

]

I use "health food" to get a reaction out of you for sure.

Is a couple pieces of bacon as good as lets say some salmon and asparagus? Of course not. Or some lean protein like some tuna salad with vinegar? No.

But the point is, sometimes, when you are in a rush, a handful of peanuts or yes, some tasty bacon can be an okay snack.

At the same time, though, I would also never recommend that someone eat 5 rice cakes in one sitting. The recommended serving size for a rice cake is 1 cake. And rice cakes have virtually zero nutritional value. They have no fat, but they also have no protein, no fiber, pretty much nothing.

Bingo - you have just described a carb.

1 piece of bacon = 70 calories
1 rice cake = 60 calories

I can't beleive either would be a "recommended serving."

One will not satiate. The other will.

If you want a snack that will fill you up, you need something with some bulk to it, something with fiber, something whole grain. Perhaps a slice of whole wheat bread with natural peanut butter or soy nut butter.

Celery and peanut butter we could agree on but not "wheat-flavored" bread.

Everybody is different, but I can tell you that when I or my wife eats a fatty meal, we feel sick, we feel sluggish and tired afterwards. When we eat foods rich in nutrients and high in fiber, we feel full and satisfied but not bloated or weighed down. We feel energetic, not somnolent.

It's the carbs, not the fat. Fat actually is a great source of energy.

Here's something to try.

Next time you or wife are hungry for a snack and something sweet, try this.

Take a diet rootbeer (I am not a great fan of diet colas but just bear with me on this one). Take 1/4 cup of cream. Get the heavy stuff. Mix together. Quaff it.

That's about as pure fat as you can get. It's called a farmer's float.

Tell me how good it feels.

Do it the next time you want a treat - I promise - you won't keel over from heart disease.

No sluggish, after Thanksgiving-I-ate-stuffing-and-sweet-potatoes-feeling.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

By what right do you have Scanner to determine that someone shouldn't live till 99? She doesn't take medications, lives with one of her kids and enjoys life. In fact she still travels. Sooo, you basically want to take her outside and shoot her huh?

Nice. There is a DNR order on her, because she's happy to have lived a long time. BUT according to your values she is a drain on society. Gee, great values. Sorry that she ate healthy, exercised, and lived a longer life than you would like.

And I am fully in support in valuing death equally as life. In other countries they weigh what it costs to be kept alive. And I think that should be weighted. Because people spend excessive amounts of money to be kept alive.

HOWEVER not everyone alive past 90 is using machines or medicines. Sorry to dispell your notion, but you know in Japan (which you've never refuted), which has a socialized system and values death, people there live super long. And they live so long the society is in trouble. People don't die, I wonder why when they eat a "white rice/granola" diet??? Please enlighten us all why that society has a longevity and fewer medications for older people? And less obesity?

[disneysteve]

Is a couple pieces of bacon as good as lets say some salmon and asparagus? Of course not. Or some lean protein like some tuna salad with vinegar? No.

But the point is, sometimes, when you are in a rush, a handful of peanuts or yes, some tasty bacon can be an okay snack.

Celery and peanut butter we could agree on but not "wheat-flavored" bread.

I don't think you and I are actually on opposite sides of this argument. We're close to the middle, just a little to each side of the center.

I really do think it keeps coming back to serving sizes. You say that what we've been doing isn't working, but we really aren't doing what we've always been doing. We no longer eat the way our grandparents ate. Heck, we no longer eat the way I ate growing up in the 1970s and 1980s. When we would go out to breakfast (a rare treat), I'd sometimes get bacon. A typical restaurant serving was 3 strips. Today, at most places, a typical serving is 5 or 6 strips. Burgers have grown from about 3 oz. to 4 oz. to many places that now sell 1/2 pound burgers as their standard. Pizzas used to be about 14 inches in diameter. Then 16" and now I know of several places that make pizzas that are 22" across. So one slice doesn't mean the same thing to day that it used to mean. Mozzarella sticks, one of my daughter's favorite foods, used to come 4 to a serving. Anywhere we go now, the waitress usually brings her 8 or even 10 to an order. It is nuts. No wonder people keep getting fatter. Even salads are ridiculous. A salad bowl used to be one of those little wooden things about 5 or 6 inches across. Now, go into most restaurants and order a salad and you'll get a large dinner sized plate piled high. That salad can be hundreds and hundreds of calories. So much for salad being the "healthy" or "low-cal" option.

So I think we are both right. We need to avoid empty calories. We need to stop eating foods that have little to no nutritional value. We need to cut back on all the processed crap and hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup. But we also need to eat the good nutrient-packed foods in reasonable portions.

I don't care for celery, though, so I'll keep putting my peanut butter on whole wheat bread (real whole wheat bread - not the commercial garbage that says whole wheat on the label but somehow has zero grams of fiber).

[Scanner]

LivingLarge,

I am not living past 90 - that's just me. If you and your family values longevity, that's fine. I support family rights (ala Terry Schiavo) in healthcare. If Terry Schiavo's husband wants to pull the plug, I support that. If he hadn't and he had wanted her to chew up Medicaid dollars after Medicaid dollars, I would support that too.

But I will stand by my position that longevity without productivity would be very, very hard on our already overtaxed SSI system.

You see, you think I'm being a jerk but I am getting down to the issue here. What are you willing to change? What are you willing to lay on the table?

You can't have your low-carb cake and eat it too.

If you really are aiming for people to live longer, you had better be sure their knees, their back and their muscles and joints hold out so they can work and pay taxes.

I think the Eskimos do it right (not sure if this custom is still practiced). The person decides when it's time to die, they announce it to the family, they have a huge party celebrating their life and then they go and leave them out in the snow, where they pass into hypothermia and then death.

No end of life costs, no burden to the tribe. What a dignified way to go. When they decide to do it may be 70, 80, 90, or 100. It's entirely up to the person with no pressure from their loving family.

DisneySteve,

I don't think we are that far off either - we just need a shift in thinking.

Americans are eating more than ever. . .yet are undernourished at the same time.

I don't think Americans are lazy (I guess I'll ahve to concede they are fat). I just think they need to be fed right and the American food industry isn't doing it.

They are feeding them like cattle.

[jIM_Ohio]

Bumping this up. Has anyone read the health plans for any of the candidates?

Last night my wife and I debated universal health care. Surprisingly she opposed it and I wanted it. I then googled universal health care and followed 3 or 4 of the top hits.

Universal Health Care Initiative

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

John Edwards for President-Health Care

HillaryClinton.com - American's Health Choices Plan


I thought the first two links did a good job educating me to the severity of the issue. I don't like one of the plan's listed above by one candidate, and I think the other makes a lot of sense. But until others read them, I don't want to cloud the opinions of others (YET).

[ishanbansal]

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[wrinklescream]

fix health

hello every one i am new there
my self anney from us
its the right way to solve your problem

Make people get a job and buy insurance, It works for me. My wife and I both work and pay 466 a month for insurance. It is very good insurance and i work hard to afford it. Why should I pay for someone who is too lazy to work and get their own insurance. If you can't afford health insurance then the govenment should set something up. It would be crappy but better than nothing. I see no reason someone should get the same insurance I get when I work damn hard for it.

if you have any problem please reply me

about this topic

anney

[Scanner]

Austraila has it right - a 3 tiered approach to healthcare (not sure if I discussed this long ago)

Tier 1

Basic healthcare is here and provided by the government. Family doctor visits, ER vistis, hospitalizations, basic pharmaceuticals.

Tier 2

This is what motivates you to get a job. You get some "finer healthcare" here - dental, vision, chiropractic, some experimental cancer treatments. And so on. It's debatable what goes in Tier 1 and Tier 2 but the point is, there should be motivation to get better healthcare by working and not every street bum should have a $100,000 experimental cancer treatment (unless charity can fill that void).

Tier 3

THe rich. The rich will always be able to get anything they want and you can't really change that. And you can't fault Oprah and Bill Gates for having the best healthcare anyway.

Healthcare is around 8-9% of Austrailia's GDP where it's going to approach 20% of our GDP soon. We keep talking about Canada and Europe and we have forgotten our mates down-under.

That being said, no matter what system - capitalistic like America, moderate like Australia, or socialistic like Cuba. . .the system only reflects the health of the country. It's not the "system" that's bad. . .it's American's health. Until that changes, no "system" can solve the problem.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Scanner, how do you want us to kill a 99 year old woman? She died in April, but did you want us to stop feeding her? Cover her mouth and strangle her at 90? Wham, sorry great-grandma, it's time to die.