Question about the Working World

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I have a question about the "working world."

I have never had a real job (well, beach lifeguarding excepted, ha, ha), been a small business owner all my life. I probably have a chance to get a job/career in academia. Not saying it would be guaranteed but I think there's a position if I wanted.

Wow. . .what a thought. Going from like no benefits to disability, vacation days, tuition reimbursement, medical, dental, etc.

It's a big adjustment to think about it.

Anyway, what is a normal raise in the world of academia?

Do they give a COL raise every year of like 3%? Or is it merit-based? How does the working world work?

DW seems to get a COL raise every year of about 3% (she works for a hospital system).

Is this kind of normal?

I have only got paid on what I do and only what I do all my life, not for just showing up.

Corporate America or Academia would be a huge adjustment for me so I am trying to figure out how it works out there/in there.

[threebeansalad]

There is a HUGE variation in the types of academic jobs, in both their scope and compensation.

I assume you are looking for a teaching job? Teaching jobs pay far less than research/teaching jobs. Having a research job in academia requires a very specific skill set and record of publication. Most fields would require you to write grants and bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars for the University. It's hardly a job where you rest on your laurels.

FT college teaching jobs are out there.. but many small college and universities are going to contract jobs and adjunct faculty. If you are on contract, you often are paid by the individual course and have no benefits. Same thing for adjunct faculty. The pay for both typically isn't much to write home about, IMHO.

If you are serious about moving to academia, start looking around here Chronicle Careers: Jobs in Higher Education.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Pay ladders at public universities and colleges are public record. You should be able to go to Human Resources at the school you are interested in and get copies of the current pay ladders. There is still variation, though, because degrees you have when you start are a big part of deciding which ladder you begin on. Then you can switch to other ladders over the years if you do things like get further degrees or, in some cases also do administration or research, as was mentioned already.

[jIM_Ohio]

academia is NOT the real world.

It pays OK, gives benefits and has awesome hours based on the professors I had in college.

I would ask someone which has a similar job at the location.

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The pay they stated is $60,000/year to start.

The benefits are medical, a tuition exchange program for kids (I guess this means they can go to a university in network at a discount/free), disability, vacation days, dental, vision, flex spending, a 403(b), etc.

I have no idea of what kind of dollar amount they are putting on the table but if I were to guess, I would probably put it around another $25,000. More. . .if you figure I will have kids going to college that perhaps many of the costs could be defrayed.

The only stipulation was that I would have to engage in "scholarly pursuit" and go for a PhD. Not something I particularly relished and that would put me behind but he said they don't hold you to it (that is. . .they don't say, you need to have a PhD by 2012 or something). So figure a course per semester (this institution doesn't offer PhD's but only one EdD). . .to minus that amount a bit.

THe position was non-tenure track with a yearly contract but when I interviewed he said unless the college does away the program, it's pretty much guaranteed.

I do have to "research" or "publish" but it's not "publish or perish" type of position.

It's weird - being in business is risky but I tend to view having a job as risky as you can't manifest your own destiny.

They also offered a nominal amount for relocation.

Part of me wants to do it; part of me doesn't.

I don't have an offer. . .mostly just fantasizing here and learning what happens in the real world with real jobs.

All of me is wishy-washy, LOL.

[am_vanquish]

has awesome hours based on the professors I had in college.

It's amazing your tuition goes into their pocket for them to tell you to read chapters 1-27 and turn all your assignments in to a TA.



$60k means nothing in some areas and quite a bit in others. How is the COL in this area? Will you need to relocate? Also, the Public University I'm currently attending as an Undergrad has some sort of housing assistance program for qualified faculty (not sure how it works, but it does exist, mostly because we're in the middle of NOWHERE), so maybe something to ask about.

I would suggest checking out the colleagues you would be working with. Although first impressions can be very misleading in terms of financial comfort/distress, their sense of satisfaction in their job is a good indication of what you can expect to experience and work with day-to-day.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Are you sure about $60k? Many I know don't get paid that. But they are tenured track positions. Yours sounds like teaching position. Those positions usually aren't guaranteed money. Depends on if they need the class.

Tenure positions are usually dependent on grants and funding.

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Well, here's the deal.

(and thanks. . .it helps me to talk about it)

I interviewed last year and the position never got filled. I was turned down because of "lack of experience in program administration." It's a Program Director position that involves a course load. The program has to remain compliant with accreditation, which means self-study and self-reporting.

When I interviewed, I went in front of the Dean (remember. . .academia is a whole other world to a small businessman) she said, "Oh, the position pays $55,000 but that would be too little to bring someone like you in. . .we'll offer $60,000"

The area is Hartford, CT.

I think more the reason I wasn't offered the job was the sense I projected (and when you interview me. . .you get what you get. . .I don't put on "airs" - I didn't need this job and I'm sure they didn't need me) that I wasn't quite ready to sell my business on short notice and make a move up there. I wasn't emotionally ready. (I know. . .I know. . .so why did I send my CV??? probably a faux pas. . .I was exploring my worth)

Yes, I know the CT area of the US is one of the highest COL in the whole US. I have no idea how $60,000 there translates.

Now. . .this year. . .with a baby on the way. . .and thinking of 3 college educations possibly to pay for. . .it becomes more interesting.

In effect, if I understand the dependent tuition program, they are in effect laying around $150,000 on the table, maybe more. . .if my kids use a college within the network they belong too.

I could redirect more savings into retirement and may have health insurance in retirement.

With Conservatives blocking all health care reform. . .I don't know. . .this is something to think about.

Yes, it's mainly a teaching position. . .it's a teaching school. They told me they are trying to move slowly into a more "research-based" institution but their main mission statement is teaching.

You wanna know another weird thing that holds me back?

(this is sooooo superficial so go ahead and laugh)

I love the NJ beaches and I'd be further away from them. Not to mention my parents are getting older (Dad's 72 and mom's 64) and to be 5 hours away. . .the thought of taking care of them from a distance. Plus I know Mom would run the obligatory guilt trip on me for moving the grandchildren away (she's 100% Italian. . .so guilt trips are par).

All of this is very presumptious. I may go back and interview or not even be called again (I may have blown it) but I spent a day interviewing up there. I got the sense they wanted me but I think they got the sense I wasn't ready (and that would have been correct).

Maybe I romanticize the idea of "retiring from business" to academic life a bit too. I"m sure the grass isn't greener, just a different species.

Not to mention how hard it would be to sell a house right now. . .so many things to think about. . .and my business. . .that takes about a good year to two to sell to get what it's worth. . .I may be able to dump it for $.25 to $.50 on the dollar.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I had the impression that most any city in Connecticut had a higher cost of living than where I am. But I just found this calculator that say COL is the same, but wages about 10% better.

Wanna try it?

City of Hartford Cost of Living Calculator. Connecticut--Hartford Relocation Calculator & Index.

$60,000 to start as program director with no previous teaching experience would be unheard of here, I can tell you.

[InDebtInDC]

I personally love teaching. I taught some classes when I was in college, and I love the experience.

The politics will be there wherever you go. So the grass is not greener.

As you all know I aspire to teach when I retire. I don't think it's a pipe dream if you go in with a realistic expectations.


Have you considered other jobs, such as private industry, government, other non-academic jobs, etc.?

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Yes, I have considered industry. My wife works big business. I don't know about big business. I feel I am more a match for small business or academia.

She works very hard but I don't know I could spend my days going from meeting to meeting listening and brainstorming and working on changing par-a-dig-ems. I'm too opinionated and I know I'd speak up and say, "This is bull****" and I'd be out the door. I wouldnt' do that in a mean way. . .I can just see me diagnosing it and blurting it out, LOL.

With academia, I'd have a daily platform so that outlet is offered me, LOL.

Here's the thing - I know someday I'll have to make the jump out of small business. I feel like this: "Been there. Done that. Have the t-shirt." I don't know quite how to plan it so it goes off with little hitch as possible.

Also. . .for anyone in small business for awhile knows this truth - the ultimate mission, the ultimate outcome for a business is to sell itself, to cash out. Very few businesses create an "empire/corporation-like" legacy and I don't want my children to go into the business I am in. So what happens to my colleagues who don't realize this is they get stuck in their 50's unable at that point to make any kind of jump. And truthfully, practice worth probably peaks in a person's 40's. As a person ages, their practices usually slowly declines somewhat (you heard the old saying? You want your doctors young and your lawyers old?).

So, those are the things on my mind.

Thanks for the calculator.

I just found out the COL is lower in CT than in South NJ. No surprise to me that I live in one the most expensive and highly taxed areas of the country. It's pretty pathetic when CT could offer tax releif, LOL.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Conneticut is also a VERY different lifestyle from NJ. Just from having seen both places I'm probably one of the few people who'd rather live in NJ. But I hate the old money lifestyle, expectation of private university, and "airs" I think Conn has. But it's a lifestyle choice.

Also $60k still won't go far in Conn.

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That's funny you should say that. I have to say that I thought the people were very nice and genuine and my wife simply adores people from New England.

She romanticizes the whole New England area and I mentioned that during the interview, that she thinks Conn. is snow dappled meadows with deer prancing across it flanked by a large evergreen Christmas tree with white lights on it.

Jersey. . .well. . .let's see. . .Eagles fans were the only fans in the world to pelt Santa Claus with snowballs. Philadelphia is the only place in the US where a coach like Buddy Ryan could have survived and prospered.

Let's just say we aren't exactly known for being the classiest people down here.

Gabeesh?

LOL.

We also love our Wawas (a S.Jersey convenience store that's like a mega-empire).

You kind of hit it though. My colleagues would definitely see myself going out of the "real world" and into a "sheltered world" of academia. I would get some crap for that.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Ya haven't lived in a nice neighborhood with snobs in New England. Where it matters where you went to school. Where you've lived here for GENERATIONS and grew up down the street. Where your family has money.

I like my place well enough but I would never raise my kids here. Way too spoiled. And way to much me, me, me. Huge parties for bar mitzvahs and sweet sixteens. Looking at kids driving super nice lexus, BMW, volvos in high school.

Sorry, but no way. I drove nothing in high school and college. I don't like the lifestyle of having inherited money.

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LivingLarge:

You know where else is like that? LaDue/Clayton, MO -which is a suburb of St. Louis. I lived iun St. Louis for awhile and I found the culture bizarre with "coming out" parties and such.

It was listed as Top 10 places to live/raise kids if you got some serious dough.