Tithing while in debt

[nitajaye]

Here is my two cents worth.

God created the heavens and the earth and everything on it. It is his. In the old testament God's people were to give a 10th of their first fruits. It was for the priests of the temple and for those in need. It was also a thank offering, saying thank you for your protection and blessings.

Today we are under the law of the new Testament, thanks to Christ's sacrifice on the cross. This does not mean we are not to tithe, but I also believe that we are no longer "required" to tithe a 10th of everything we have. But we are still to tithe a portion of our "first fruits" What ever that amount is is between you and God. I do not believe in dropping your tithe to pay for the cable bill. Personally I would rather drop the cable and spend the time persuing other things. (spend time in God's word, be with your family and friends, help someone in need etc.)

Even when times are extremely tough continue to tithe and watch God work his miracles and wonders. It is truly amazing how God can bless your faithfulness to Him.

[Gruntina]

The bible is big on promises. Basically do not make promises you can not keep. This includes calculating your payments before purchases to make sure you can pay off your bills for small and large things like house and stuff. You are obligated to fulfill your contract of payments.

I personally made a promise to pay tithe so I am keeping up with that as well as to make sure I promise to pay off my bills. But tithing should never be an excuse for not paying your debts. Debts are the result of your own doing and that is the matter that needs most of the immediate attention so you can fulfill your other obligations.

[luvnspnful]

ok............im probably in the minority here, but does anyone else consider tithing or charitable donations of any kind the last priority?i give to various charities thru my work ( its a bottomless pit actually). added to that are all the birthdays/births/retirements/wedding gifts i donate to. i consider myself maxed out on this issue. granted, im not religious by any stretch, even tho i go to church on Easter, and throw $50 in the pass basket. but that is only once a year. even if i wasnt saddled with $40k of debt right now, i stillwouldnt tithe. does that make me a bad person? i dont think so. my child and my EF need that expected 10% more than the church does. consider that the Vatican bank is one of the richest financial institutions ( if not THE richest bank) in the world.

ok thats all i have to say about that.......... but id be interested to hear some other thoughts on this issue. thanks

[disneysteve]

im probably in the minority here, but does anyone else consider tithing or charitable donations of any kind the last priority?

I don't know that I'd put it last, but it is pretty low down on the list. If we ever found ourselves in financial difficulty, charitable donations would absolutely be the first thing to be cut because we can't help others if we can't even support ourselves.

Understand, however, that we are not Christian. We are Jewish and Jews don't practice tithing. Also, belonging to a synagogue is fundamentally different than belonging to a church. We have set monthly dues that we pay to be temple members. No basket gets passed around during our services. If, however, we hit rough times, the temple would negotiate a lower dues payment for us, or waive it entirely until we got back on track. So even the institution doesn't expect members to contribute when they can't afford to do so.

Just another point of view. As I said earlier, I usually stay out of tithing discussions because I think it is a very personal decision and there is no "right" answer so I think it is kind of pointless to debate it. I just wanted to weigh in with kind of an outsider view from another religious standpoint.

[PrincessPerky]

consider that the Vatican bank is one of the richest financial institutions ( if not THE richest bank) in the world.

ok thats all i have to say about that.......... but id be interested to hear some other thoughts on this issue. thanks

Now the vatican/catholic church issue is a whole nother kettle of fish! which I really don't think is a financial issue (least not for me, we are not catholic .)

[Aleta]

Steve, I didn't know that. I always thought that Jewish people tithed. Didn't Abraham give a tenth?

[tabbycat31]

I consider giving to be a priority after I have my other obligations taken care of first. I do give to various organizations (I don't give all to one, I see that as "putting all your eggs in one basket") when my budget allows me to give. EVentually I would like to up that to 10% of my income, but that is not forseeable in the near future.

However I do give back in other non monetary ways. I will volunteer and help out at fundraising events. One SPCA that I support has a thrift shop, so I give them my old clothes and other items that I am discarding but are still in good condition. I would love to foster cats for the SPCA but that's not possible right now because I have a very cat agressive feline. However that's something I'd like to do down the line.

There are plenty of ways to help out your favorite organization besides $$. I've done so in a time when I couldnt afford to donate

[fairy74]

Let me put it this way. If someone owes me $1000, says they can't afford to repay me, but are giving money to their probably rich church, would I be pissed off? You better believe I would. It is no different if it's a business or not, a debt was a promise to repay.

somehow I missed this in my first reading of this thread, but my thoughts exactly...

[Gruntina]

In my faith, tithing is not a charitable thing. It is not about "me,” in a sense I am in a position of giving as it was my own idea. It is more of bringing back a portion of so many blessings that was given in the first place. It is also an act of personal worship if the motives in the heart/mind are right. But I do it because I love God and want to depend on the biblical teachings and the mind of Christ (bible) to be the center of my life. I have no regrets and nothing to lose as money is not my lord.

This is more of a "religion" or can say “lifestyle choices” viewpoint rather than straightforward budget talks as usually faith of any kind can influence how we chose to budget or spend our money. If one does not choose to follow a faith, then “giving money” is done out of want makes it seems more charitable.

If debts with concrete goals or plans to pay off or delinquent or emergency debts are an issue, then that is an area that needs to be worked on and repaying debts being a priority can also be motivated by a way to worship because God does not want us to owe anyone money and if that is needed to be done than so be it. If it means not being able to pay tithe while paying back debts, you are still doing the will of God according the faith that I follow (non-denominational Christian).

It varies what faith you follow or no faith at all so there is any right or wrong answers and there never will be one answer to this. This is just to give an idea why a few of us do this.

[disneysteve]

Steve, I didn't know that. I always thought that Jewish people tithed. Didn't Abraham give a tenth?

I actually asked one of our rabbis about tithing tonight after services. He said that it is taught as a biblical concept but really not as a modern practice. Of course, he said, it would be great if everyone did it, and many ultra-Orthodox Jews do, but by and large it isn't a common practice among modern Jews.

[Quynne]

This is one hot topic and one I tried to stay out of. lol. This may sound strange but I don't believe this is a financial issue. I believe it is a heart issue. For those who are Christian, we are under the age of grace not law. Does that absolve you from giving a tenth? Some say it does and others disagree. What it does mean is that our heart attitude is what is important. This is a spiritual question not a money question. The bible also says that God loves a cheerful giver. So, if you are grudgingly giving your tenth every week don't expect it to bless you. You need to examine your heart. You need to pray and read the Word to find your answer. There are too many opinions and you will always find someone who agrees or disagrees with you. This is a decision based on you and God. Trust in that and your answer will come.

Also we need to beware of prosperity theology. Just because you give $20 at church don't expect to find $140 on your car window. (sevenfold..lol) You don't give to get. You cannot out give God. That is all nonsense and not biblical. You maybe blessed. For instance, a bill maybe less than you expected. Your tires last longer than they should. Your roof doesn't leak. Someone gives you exactly what you needed.

As far as the church getting the money....churches depend on volunteers and cheerful givers. Without that there would be no Sunday school teachers, no ministries, no food baskets, no AWANA, no Christmas play and most of all no preacher. It is our responsibility to give to our church so the business of spreading the gospel can happen. Think of it this way...if you went to the Y, and used all of its resources and paid $100 a month, how would you feel if you found out that over half the people there just decided not to pay and were let in anyway? Churches do not kick out those who do not tithe. However, churches provide the same service, same ministries, same food baskets, same children's ministires to everyone. A preacher can't preach unless he is paid. Are there some who get paid too much? Yes. That is a separate issue. You are only responsible for you. If your church is mishandling funds...find another church.

My family is Christian. My house is a tithing house. Yes, we are in a great deal of debt. However, God did not cause our debt. Our debt is outside His will for our lives. So, that does not negate our biblical responsibility. What it does mean is that we need to work hard...extra hard...to clean that mess up. It is bad testimony for a Christian to be in more debt than he can handle. Which is why I wasn't even going to respond to this. lol. However, my house will take steps to not rob God or anyone else even if it is hard or inconveinent. Thanks in part to the wonderful people here who have helped give me a better attitude.

Basically, what I am saying is that one need not debate this issue. It is a spiritual, personal issue. Go to God and trust Him.

I totally understand the perspectives of those who are not Christian and do not believe in tithing. It does sound crazy. Oh...and to those who said they would be mad if someone owed them money while giving to the church. I can understand that. It is a bad testimony to owe money. I can understand the frustration from the one who generously gave the money in the first place. However, being on the flip side of that...I was owed money by a Christian. I would rather they tithe than pay me back. However, their tithing responsiblity is their problem and does not negate them paying me back. But...if I knew that they would have to pay me out of their tithe...I would rather they tithe. That is just me. Don't all go asking me for money...LOL...none to give. LOL.

[b4freedom]

What do you pay tithing on: net income or gross income?

If you own a small business that generates $100,000 in revenue. You have to decide what your salary from that revenue should be. Anything you don't give yourself in salary would be turned back into the business to help it grow in order to become more profitable. Let's assume that you paid yourself $60,000 in salary and $40,000 went back into building the business. Do you pay 10% of the $60k? What if you switched it and only gave yourself $40k? Do you still only pay 10% of the $40k? That's a $2k difference in tithing. What one is the correct thing to do?

On one hand, you'd have more salary up front. On the other hand you're investing in your business which will hopefully give you more salary on the back end which would mean more tithing to pay later on.

For those of you who pay tithing, do you feel guilty for not paying a certain percentage?

When you go before your Maker, how do you think it'll go when tithing comes up? Do you think you've covered your bases or will you come up short?

See an older thread: http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/p...etire-die.html

[carsensejoe]

I'm not sure what GOD thinks about giving that is done only when it is easy or convenient.

it definitly means more when its harder to do

[Aleta]

I heard a saying from a minister that made alot of sense. He said that when you are giving let's say outside of your tithing that if it doesn't move you by what you gave then it won't move God. I think alot is conscience. Some people give above tithing. They'll give an extra offering and it usually is because of something that they are going through and they will give out of their need. I've heard some pretty remarkable stories about that. But let's face it when you're down that far financially, it really doesn't matter anyway. You have no where except up to go. So alot has to do with your conscience and what you understand to be truth.

[Quynne]

What do you pay tithing on: net income or gross income?

If you own a small business that generates $100,000 in revenue. You have to decide what your salary from that revenue should be. Anything you don't give yourself in salary would be turned back into the business to help it grow in order to become more profitable. Let's assume that you paid yourself $60,000 in salary and $40,000 went back into building the business. Do you pay 10% of the $60k? What if you switched it and only gave yourself $40k? Do you still only pay 10% of the $40k? That's a $2k difference in tithing. What one is the correct thing to do?

On one hand, you'd have more salary up front. On the other hand you're investing in your business which will hopefully give you more salary on the back end which would mean more tithing to pay later on.

For those of you who pay tithing, do you feel guilty for not paying a certain percentage?

When you go before your Maker, how do you think it'll go when tithing comes up? Do you think you've covered your bases or will you come up short?

See an older thread: http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/p...etire-die.html

We tithe on our gross income. I don't have a small business. I did have a home daycare....which isn't really a small business...but I did put money back into it...for food, toys, etc. I still tithed off the gross of total earnings. I never really thought much about it...since I wasn't paying anyone else so I could take 10% right off the top. Now, if I had an established small brick and mortar small business...I would tithe off the income I pay myself. I know a few people who own their own businesses at church and from my understanding that is how they do it.

Basically, this is a spiritual issue. You cannot outgive God. If you are trying to get away with tithing less than your heart is not right. You should be trying to think of MORE ways to give. Afterall, it all rests with God anyway. If that is not your belief, than it would be hard to explain this or for you to understand it.