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    alot of money to move a problem

    https://nypost.com/2018/03/09/upstat...-move-program/

    https://www.wnyc.org/story/nyc-pays-...move-out-city/

    so New York is paying to move Homeless out of their world............ paying not only transportation but a YEAR worth of rent/ furnishings etc for them to relocate elsewhere.
    One estimate had this costing $41,000 per family or couples to set up shop elsewhere. I have read of at least one family moved to Honolulu.

    They started evidently with just moving people upstate New York and they got so angry as they are finding as the years worth of rent is expiring, many have NOT gotten jobs and straightened their life. Instead many seemed to just squat until the rent ran out then started back on the street how long until they move back down to NYC.
    What does those here think of this program?

    i know many other cities have paid bus tickets to perhaps think they are helping a person get to an area where thy may have family/ support but many are finding out that is not working either. Seattle has found they have paid for the same bus tickets for one person several times but he just came back. so in a way they are simply funding road trips for these folks.

    i just watched a story today in Austin, TX where when they interviewed some homeless they said it was a great city to be homeless as people still give out cash and they provide many services.
    When told of these statements the Mayor simply told reporter it was an Urban legend and no one moves to an area based on that.
    Seriously i think California would show a area with good weather and lax enforcement does attract more then lets say an area that gets cold and snow.

    How much are taxpayers suppose to support for people who will not help themselves even when given the chance.





    #2
    I have not heard of these programs.

    On a very intentional case by case basis, I think programs like this could help. The key is identifying the people who would most likely benefit from this assistance. There isn't one simple answer to why people are homeless. If, for example, there are serious mental health issues, just giving them free rent for a year will do them no good at all as it isn't addressing the underlying cause. However, other homeless people may just need that boost of having the expense of rent taken off their plate for a few months to give them time to get everything else back on track and then they'd be good going forward.
    Steve

    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
      I have not heard of these programs.

      On a very intentional case by case basis, I think programs like this could help. The key is identifying the people who would most likely benefit from this assistance. There isn't one simple answer to why people are homeless. If, for example, there are serious mental health issues, just giving them free rent for a year will do them no good at all as it isn't addressing the underlying cause. However, other homeless people may just need that boost of having the expense of rent taken off their plate for a few months to give them time to get everything else back on track and then they'd be good going forward.
      i think we create more and more problems based on good intentions instead of reality. perhaps a few months rent then if you show us some progress a few more months to help you along but paying up front one year and dropping them in another city is a waste of funds.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post

        i think we create more and more problems based on good intentions instead of reality. perhaps a few months rent then if you show us some progress a few more months to help you along but paying up front one year and dropping them in another city is a waste of funds.
        I can sort of understand the relocation issue, especially when you're talking about NYC. The cost of living there is sky high so if you're struggling, you might never be able to turn things around if you stay there but you also don't have the means to go anywhere else. If programs like this can get you established in a lower COLA, that could have a huge impact on your life.
        Steve

        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

        Comment


          #5
          Not in my back yard syndrome?

          Seems shortsighted at best.
          Who comes up with this stuff?
          Brian

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

            I can sort of understand the relocation issue, especially when you're talking about NYC. The cost of living there is sky high so if you're struggling, you might never be able to turn things around if you stay there but you also don't have the means to go anywhere else. If programs like this can get you established in a lower COLA, that could have a huge impact on your life.
            I just found it funny the city moved many all over the country so it was kind of off our plate type of thing instead of any foresight into the COLA of any area. That was obvious when NYC paid to send someone to Honolulu (very high COLA)

            I often wonder why if someone is struggling or trying to get their life together they do not choose to go somewhere that would be easier to manage. i can only assume like an interview i saw with some homeless in Austin TX they said in certain areas people are more generous and so as long as hand outs are coming they will stay in that area.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post

              I just found it funny the city moved many all over the country so it was kind of off our plate type of thing instead of any foresight into the COLA of any area. That was obvious when NYC paid to send someone to Honolulu (very high COLA)

              I often wonder why if someone is struggling or trying to get their life together they do not choose to go somewhere that would be easier to manage. i can only assume like an interview i saw with some homeless in Austin TX they said in certain areas people are more generous and so as long as hand outs are coming they will stay in that area.
              Yeah, going from NYC to Honolulu makes no sense.

              As for why someone doesn't just move, it's nearly impossible if you're broke. How do you get there? What do you do when you get there? You can't rent an apartment. You can't get a job (you need a permanent address for that; you can't be homeless). It would be easy for me to relocate. It's not nearly so easy when you're poor and all but impossible when you're homeless unless you get some significant assistance - like what programs like this can provide.
              Steve

              * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
              * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
              * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

              Comment


                #8
                Many cities will provide lets say a bus ticket to perhaps a town where a person has family or friends to help provide support. if i needed to start over again or had things to overcome i think starting in a low COLA is a better route. i have been in a situation watching some work up from homeless/ couch surfing etc. I have seen first hand what it takes

                what works is a desire to climb out of hole not looking for programs/ handouts ...programs seekers will always have another reason to need more "help"

                Comment


                  #9
                  this has been happening for years. Happens a lot to hawaii. That's how they got their homeless problem. States send them to a nice climate. I'm not joking. Also happens all over the us. They send them bus tickets to somewhere else. Southern california and florida are popular.
                  LivingAlmostLarge Blog

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My friend and I were just talking over lunch yesterday how expensive it is to move. We both have kids that graduated and got jobs in other cities. Who do you think paid for that move? ME! It was $450 for a uhaul, first and last months rent $1,950 plus the expense of buying things for an apartment, I'm going to guestimate $500 for that, I didn't keep detailed notes, but we got free or goodwill wherever we could. My DD paid what she could but she paid a good portion of her education so she had about 2k to her name, and I wanted her to have an emergency fund.

                    My friend is going to be out a lot more $$ as her kid is moving 11 hours away to a high COL area. They have air fare to contend with and trips to find housing and then all the expenses that the move entails.

                    How can homeless/low paid workers afford to move? They can't, they're stuck unless they know someone where they are going that can let them crash with them until they get on their feet. Having gone through this with my own kid, I now understand that it's a little bit more involved than just moving to where the jobs are.

                    Although I understand we are talking about homeless people here who have no jobs, just commenting as I've dealt with a move in the last 6 months.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Thrif-t View Post
                      My friend and I were just talking over lunch yesterday how expensive it is to move. We both have kids that graduated and got jobs in other cities. Who do you think paid for that move? ME! It was $450 for a uhaul, first and last months rent $1,950 plus the expense of buying things for an apartment, I'm going to guestimate $500 for that, I didn't keep detailed notes, but we got free or goodwill wherever we could. My DD paid what she could but she paid a good portion of her education so she had about 2k to her name, and I wanted her to have an emergency fund.

                      My friend is going to be out a lot more $$ as her kid is moving 11 hours away to a high COL area. They have air fare to contend with and trips to find housing and then all the expenses that the move entails.

                      How can homeless/low paid workers afford to move? They can't, they're stuck unless they know someone where they are going that can let them crash with them until they get on their feet. Having gone through this with my own kid, I now understand that it's a little bit more involved than just moving to where the jobs are.

                      Although I understand we are talking about homeless people here who have no jobs, just commenting as I've dealt with a move in the last 6 months.
                      So very true. As usual, people like to blame the poor for being poor when so much is stacked against them. Just try getting a legit job (not some under the table cash gig) when you don't have a permanent address. Paying someone's rent for a year can allow them to seek employment and start earning an income to become self sufficient.
                      Steve

                      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think it depends on why the people are homeless to begin with. Some people lose their jobs and then lose everything especially if they are living pay check to paycheck, families split and one partner might not be able to live on what they make...I know here in Australia we have a lot of women and children living in their cars, teenagers, etc or on the street as rent is so high here and yes we have payments for them to have but that money alone won't allow them to rent anywhere it just doesn't cover their rent, let alone food and bills, we don't get alimony over here and child support is not enforced here..so hard to fight it and get it if they don't want to pay...we have a lot of services for people with mental illnesses that have been cut and so these people end up on the street...most kids don't move out of home until their mid 20s as they just can afford to.....people say our wages are high but so is cost of living...its hard...what they need is socialised housing units where rent is based on your income to help you get on your feet....but these days there is not enough jobs over here for people!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                          So very true. As usual, people like to blame the poor for being poor when so much is stacked against them. Just try getting a legit job (not some under the table cash gig) when you don't have a permanent address. Paying someone's rent for a year can allow them to seek employment and start earning an income to become self sufficient.
                          I think as in most issues some people make assumptions and buy into the world works only as they have experienced. I do that too, but often seek out to TRY to understand why some see hurdles that others simply do not see.

                          I have seen and worked with many struggling, two that lived in their own cars. They had challenges but often those in this situation are very resourceful and find ways to live that many of us probably would never think of.
                          They found and kept jobs without an address / some may use a friends for mail or even some shelters have a PO box type system the two i worked with were completely up front with employers .
                          Moving is easier and cheaper if you have almost no possessions. Comparing to how lets say the average person moves is apple to oranges comparison.
                          I just read an article on the situation in Las Vegas where city council voted to ban sleeping on sidewalks. Many they interviewed that are homeless had jobs ( service type) that are low paying but it is done everyday, Legit w-2 jobs.

                          The reason in the links i posted show some areas feel dumped on, are upset with this program. They are finding often people are NOT using this time to get job and build lives back up. People do not always do as those with good intentions THINK they will.

                          I live near a very congested area and some people limit themselves on how far a commute they will settle for. In the south end they have many people to chose from and on average pay less then the northern edge that pay more as the pool is smaller.
                          In general you can find similar priced rentals so why would some not move 10-15 miles for an extra 3-5 per hour and even better chance for advancement.

                          Similar to if you had a specific career and chose to stay in an area that did not have many jobs in that field. I knew a few whom had schooling and training in a field not in demand in our city, but a larger city west about 270 miles had a regular need for that. Instead they took and stayed at retail jobs complaining that their education was a waste ..... because they did not want to move or find a way to.
                          Perhaps seeing this type of example personally over and over again has jaded me into not making excuses for some whom are held back by roadblocks they built.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Smallsteps, I think you make a number of great points, especially regarding flexibility and mobility to go where the work and opportunities exist. We, as a population, are far less mobile than we used to be. Part of that is tied in to the ongoing push for home ownership. When fewer people owned their homes, it was easier to pick up and move for a better job.

                            Another thing that aggravates this problem is childcare and the growth of two-income families. Years ago when it was the norm for the husband to work and the wife to stay at home with the kids, moving was far less complicated. Now, not only do both people need to find jobs but they also need to find convenient and affordable childcare which can be extremely difficult.

                            I also totally understand folks who live where the homeless people are being sent being upset. I wouldn't want a sudden influx of homeless people in my town.
                            Steve

                            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                            Comment

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