Bitcoin or Gold???

[MaryKay]

My husband and I have been seriously considering buying some Bitcoin and we've been researching the pro's and con's. Gold has been around forever and has always been a good investment. However, we're seeing and hearing more and more about Bitcoin and how it's a better investment than gold.

Does anyone have an experience or thoughts on this? Thanks

[disneysteve]

I don't think it's accurate to say gold has always been a good investment. Pretty much just the opposite is true. People buy gold primarily as a hedge against inflation and for speculation. It really isn't a good investment at all.

Bitcoin isn't an investment at all. It's a gamble, a speculation. It's worth whatever somebody decides it's worth at the moment. There's no government or other controlling body regulating or supporting its value so the price can go up or down, sometimes dramatically, very quickly.

Why are you thinking about buying Bitcoin? What does the rest of your investment portfolio look like?

[kork13]

I would strongly consider NOT doing Bitcoin....ever. It is so extremely speculative that its price has fluctuated wildly in very short periods of time time. Consider a roughly 2-year history of a single Bitcoin's value: (round numbers for simplicity)
Oct 2017: $5k
Nov 2017: $10k
Dec 2017: $20k
Apr 2018: $7k
Nov 2018: $3.5k
Apr 2019: $5k
May 2019: $8k
Jun 2019: $12k
Jul-Sep 2019: $9k-$10k
Nov 2019-Present: $7k

The fundamental problem with gold, bitcoin, and other similar assets is that they don't grow, they don't produce, and they don't throw off income. It simply sits there, and you hope that it's more valuable when you decide to sell it.

[MaryKay]

Thanks, disneysteve and kork13. After I posted this I did some extensive reading about Bitcoin and I'd have to agree...it's very volatile...and not an option for us. Gold isn't either.

The thing is....back in the 90's we had a broker that "invested" for us. We trusted her and since my husband and I had no experience or clue about investing, we left it up to her to decide what to do with our small investments. We thought it would grow over time and we'd be OK for retirement. That didn't happen. Then, when everything financially went south in this country, we lost just about everything. At the time, we were retired (in 2001) and traveling and living in our RV. By the time we were notified that there was a huge loss to our account, we pulled what was left out and just hung on to it. So, our "portfolio" was gone for the most part and we were left with meager $$$$ to our name. My husband is 79 and I'm 73 and our parents never had any money to "invest"....they just got by so we were never taught about investing or what to do with "extra" money. Now, I'm afraid it's too late in our lives to start making any money. We'd like to keep what we have this time around because there's another down-turn coming. I was just curious about what other's thought about Bitcoin or gold.

We're concerned about the future and money. There'll come a time when money will not be available to buy groceries or get anything we take for granted now. You won't be able to get your "money" out of a bank because the doors will be closed and money will be worth nothing anyway. We're heading down that path and it's not that far away.

[kork13]

I'm sorry to hear that you got stung in the 2001 downturn, and watching it happen again in 2008/2009 probably didn't help your confidence in the markets either. Unfortunately, taking all the money out at the bottom of a downturn is generally the worst possible choice, because in the last 18 years you've lost out on a great deal of growth from the market. That money, if left invested, could probably have doubled at least 1-2 times. Although your broker probably should have convinced you to stick it out, that's history now, so it is what it is.

But even though another market downturn is likely due at some point in the next year or two, there's no reason to panic. There are plenty of options that can provide you with some stable income while protecting what you have. If you have a plan, and know/understand it, you can have alot more confidence in what you're doing with your money.

If you'd like to post some details about your income, expenses, assets, and your plans/goals, we'd all be happy to help you with building a plan to help provide for your needs over the next 15-20+ years. Even though you may have missed out on some significant growth in the past, if you're deliberate about what you're doing, you can still do fine in the future.

[disneysteve]

back in the 90's we had a broker that "invested" for us. We trusted her and since my husband and I had no experience or clue about investing, we left it up to her to decide what to do with our small investments. We thought it would grow over time and we'd be OK for retirement. That didn't happen. Then, when everything financially went south in this country, we lost just about everything. At the time, we were retired (in 2001) and traveling and living in our RV. By the time we were notified that there was a huge loss to our account, we pulled what was left out and just hung on to it. So, our "portfolio" was gone for the most part and we were left with meager $$$$ to our name. My husband is 79 and I'm 73 and our parents never had any money to "invest"....they just got by so we were never taught about investing or what to do with "extra" money. Now, I'm afraid it's too late in our lives to start making any money. We'd like to keep what we have this time around because there's another down-turn coming. I was just curious about what other's thought about Bitcoin or gold.

We're concerned about the future and money. There'll come a time when money will not be available to buy groceries or get anything we take for granted now. You won't be able to get your "money" out of a bank because the doors will be closed and money will be worth nothing anyway. We're heading down that path and it's not that far away.

Sorry to hear about that. You'll find that most of the regulars here are not big fans of letting someone else manage your money. We're mostly a DIY bunch.

I know you're new here, but I hope you'll share more of your story and your situation. What happened after you were left with "meager" money to your name? How did you rebuild? You've been retired for almost 20 years so obviously you're managing somehow. And you're asking about investing which implies you have money to invest.

I have no idea what you're talking about in that last paragraph about money not being available. Do you mean personally or are you suggesting that money in general is somehow going to become worthless?

[Jluke]

Vanguard LifeStrategy Income Fund may be something that would interest you.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual.../profile/VASIX

[Petunia 100]

Thanks, disneysteve and kork13. After I posted this I did some extensive reading about Bitcoin and I'd have to agree...it's very volatile...and not an option for us. Gold isn't either.

The thing is....back in the 90's we had a broker that "invested" for us. We trusted her and since my husband and I had no experience or clue about investing, we left it up to her to decide what to do with our small investments. We thought it would grow over time and we'd be OK for retirement. That didn't happen. Then, when everything financially went south in this country, we lost just about everything. At the time, we were retired (in 2001) and traveling and living in our RV. By the time we were notified that there was a huge loss to our account, we pulled what was left out and just hung on to it. So, our "portfolio" was gone for the most part and we were left with meager $$$$ to our name. My husband is 79 and I'm 73 and our parents never had any money to "invest"....they just got by so we were never taught about investing or what to do with "extra" money. Now, I'm afraid it's too late in our lives to start making any money. We'd like to keep what we have this time around because there's another down-turn coming. I was just curious about what other's thought about Bitcoin or gold.

We're concerned about the future and money. There'll come a time when money will not be available to buy groceries or get anything we take for granted now. You won't be able to get your "money" out of a bank because the doors will be closed and money will be worth nothing anyway. We're heading down that path and it's not that far away.

You know, there are some good low-risk investing choices available to you which will likely do better than cash over time. For example, one mutual fund which comes to mind is Vanguard Wellesley Income. This fund is 40% in stocks, chosen for their dividends as well as their price to earnings ratio. That means giant solid well-established companies paying reliable dividends. The other 60% is in high quality bonds, which of course also pay dividends. There is no commission or trade fee to buy shares of this mutual fund, and the expense ratio (all mutual funds have expense ratios) is very low. https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual.../profile/VWINX This is not the sort of investment which will ever make you rich over night, but it has provided solid returns over the years. While the value can go down (and has at times), the dividends are steady.

If you are really concerned that our financial system will fail, then you should stock up on guns and ammo. Also, non-perishable food and household items (cleaning products, toilet paper, etc) But the guns and ammo are more important; if you cannot defend what you have you will not keep it long in a doomsday type scenario.

[Petunia 100]

Vanguard LifeStrategy Income Fund may be something that would interest you.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual.../profile/VASIX

Another solid choice, worthy of your consideration.

[Petunia 100]

BTW, I would love to hear more about the years you and your DH were traveling and living in an RV. I have been living in an RV for 2+ years now, but am still looking forward to the traveling part. (My SO and I are living on property he owns; I cannot afford to retire just yet).

[greenskeeper]

bitcoin = ponzi scheme

[amarowsky]

I am satoshi!

[rennigade]

Thanks, disneysteve and kork13. After I posted this I did some extensive reading about Bitcoin and I'd have to agree...it's very volatile...and not an option for us. Gold isn't either.

So you didnt do any "extensive reading" before posting that you were thinking about buying bitcoin? Hmm, ok.

[bjl584]

Neither.

But if you put a gun to my head I'd buy gold.
At least it's real

[myrdale]

You want to buy gold? Wonderful, lets say $10,000 worth. Currently $1,559 / oz. So you now have 6-1/2 coins.

Where are you going to keep them? In your house? Safety deposit box?

What if you're robbed?

What if the house burns down? Home owner's insurance is only going to to cover $500.

Ok, you're now ready to retire and your 6-1/2 coins are now worth $15,000. How are we going to sell them?

Ok, say we haven't made it to retirement, instead say the government failed or a hurricane struck and the town is under 2 ft of water. You need milk and cheese, and luckily you have 6-1/2 gold coins. Now what?

Under no circumstance does gold make sense to me. Avoid it.

To illustrate my point further I had the following conversation with a friend:

Friend: Myrdale, you're the smartest guy I know what do you think about investing in gold?
Me: I don't know, I think I would be careful.
Friend: Well I have already purchased 1 ounce for $1,200.
Me: Make sure you keep it safe, I wouldn't tell everyone you keep gold.
Friend: Actually I had to sell it.
Me: What do you mean.
Friend: I needed a new axle and so I sold it. I only got $950.
Me: ...

I can't stress it enough. I put the thoughts of investing in gold in the "poor man's ways" category. Do some research and find out how many millionaires got their money by investing in gold (pawn brokers aside).

Bit-coin is just a gamble. Had you bought in at $1 and sold at $20,000 you could have been tremendously wealthy. Everyone who sold at $20,000 though sold to someone who's investment is now $7,000. I don't want to imply it is a pyramid scheme or a zero sum game, but I do not see the value in it.

If you really want to burn your money that bad, just go to Vegas.