I So Agree With This

[Saving in So Cal]

We only have one child and we decided to put $100/month into a 529. We know we can afford this amount without compromising our other savings goals. Experts recommend saving $300/month per child. This seems laughable to me, especially for familys with 2 or 3 kids. Besides like many/most of you, we worked our way through undergrad and grad. Although we probably complained about it at the time, we know it benefitted us in the long run. Consequently, we're not overly concerned about our child having to work to pay some of the way.

[fairy74]

what is the purpose of this? I've heard that before about freshman being forced to live on campus.

is there a definable expectation the schools have for the policy?

they usually offer some lame justification like it helps freshman to integrate with the college community, blah blah...I lived on campus and off campus and I was very active in campus life regardless of my housing...

[tinapbeana]

what is the purpose of this? I've heard that before about freshman being forced to live on campus.

is there a definable expectation the schools have for the policy?

integrate into the collegiate community like fairy said. plus there are good odds that some of the kids coming in aren't 18 yet, therefore are minors, therefore if they lived off campus they could get swayed by temptation and get themselves maimed or killed, so i'm guessing they justify it as a protection (aka don't sue us ) mechanism.

if you have family that lives in the area you can 'live with them' the first year, other than that it's on campus. which, did i mention that cost 8k per year or so where i was? multiply by 350 freshmen, you get $2,800,000 income from room and board... makes a lot of sense why they have them all live on campus that first year.

[katwoman]

I want to say something about the community college vs. university issue.

They are not the same quality wise. Yes, I know, there are teachers who teach at both, simultaneously. The same textbooks can be found at both. The same courses are offered. So what's my beef? The quality of the student population.

I had only attended universities. Recently, I decided that I may go into nursing proded by my classmates in a CNA course I took. Even though I've been out of school a long time, even though I (thank god) had the bios, chems, calcs, years ago, let's just say I have little to no competition, academically, in a community college. These teachers literally have to dumb down the exams or there's an uprising! I would not recommend a community college for any serious student who intends to ultimately go on to a university unless they need to get things like college algebra/calc out of the way or if they want to study accounting.

Community college has it's niche, but so do universities.

[fairy74]

I want to say something about the community college vs. university issue.

They are not the same quality wise. Yes, I know, there are teachers who teach at both, simultaneously. The same textbooks can be found at both. The same courses are offered. So what's my beef? The quality of the student population.

I had only attended universities. Recently, I decided that I may go into nursing proded by my classmates in a CNA course I took. Even though I've been out of school a long time, even though I (thank god) had the bios, chems, calcs, years ago, let's just say I have little to no competition, academically, in a community college. These teachers literally have to dumb down the exams or there's an uprising! I would not recommend a community college for any serious student who intends to ultimately go on to a university unless they need to get things like college algebra/calc out of the way or if they want to study accounting.
Community college has it's niche, but so do universities.

Based on my experience, I have to disagree some community colleges are extremely competitive. I went to a top level all girls Catholic high school, did two years at a very good community college, transferred to the state university and maintained a 3.8 GPA with no problem and then went on to law school. Community colleges are just like regular colleges some are more academically rigorous then others, some are party schools...If you choose the right one community college can be an extremely wise move academically and financially.

[SavedintheCity]

Sorry I just gotta throw a wrench into this protestant work-ethic machine. It is very American to believe that children should suffer when they are young so that they build character. I am not saying that those who cannot afford putting their children through college should try anyways thereby spending themselves into the poor house. I am saying that in many other parts of the world it is a parent's obligation to provide the child's schooling, including supporting that child until he/she is self-sufficient. If you have raised your child correctly they should be able to handle the "outrageous luxury" of not having to work until they can actually find a position suitable for their career. What also is the problem if a child parties in college? Shouldn't children party in college? When are they supposed to party then, when they are old and feeble? I can imagine the posts to follow... how dare I suggest that a parent should foot the bill for a child's dissolute wastrely? Not to pick a fight with you good folks, but the penny pinching and tough love can go a little too far.

[th_tan]

I went to college completely paying for everything on my own (had grants as well). I busted my butt doing approximately 45 hrs a week for college, and 25 hours a week delivering pizzas for income. Theres no reason a parent should have to fully fund their kids to go to college, 25% would be helpful though.

[disneysteve]

It is very American to believe that children should suffer when they are young so that they build character.

I don't think it so much to build character but rather so that the child develops an understanding that effort=results. Out in the real world, things aren't handed to you just because. I think a big cause of the debt problem is that kids leave home expecting to maintain the same standard of living they had with mom and dad. But mom and dad worked for many years to reach that level. They didn't live that way when they were just starting out and neither should you. You need to earn it yourself.

What also is the problem if a child parties in college? Shouldn't children party in college?

I agree completely. I partied quite a bit in college. But I also busted my butt studying and maintaining an excellent GPA, made Dean's list a few times and got accepted to med school when I was done. Partying and doing well in college are not mutually exclusive.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I wish my kid would party in college! He has always been this overly sober person and needs to loosen up and enjoy himself and others a little more. I don't want him to violate his own personality, but I do want him to grow. For him, a little partying would be a good thing.

He is a freshman and does not have a job during the school year. For one thing the college is in a small town in a rural area and there just are not jobs for so many students. But also, he has a major that he (and we his parents) believes requires an unusual amount of time to suceed at, so he spends way more time in study than I think the average student does. He's a physics major, math minor. He says one calc class is about one third the work of one physics class. The standards are very high, the depth of the studies are exceptional. His is a very smart kid (4 year full scholarship, includes room, board, books, tuition) but he has to study a lot and hard. During the regular semesters I do not see how he could work a job.

By the way, he tells me he sees students wasting more of their time playing video games than anything else. He has seen people flunk classes due to video game addiction. This has unfortunately included students in his own major, students who he says have more intelligence and ability than himself. Is that part of the partying some fear? Vid game palying isn't what I consider partying, but it can kill college careers.

I do not have to struggle so much with how much to help my own grown child financially with college, but besides, I now see our relationship as a lot more like a partnership between adults who want the best for each other. I like to think we would always help each other to succeed and succeed together. There are things the college age son does to bouy up the rest of the family and things we do for him. We're in this together. I would pay some college expenses, even a lot of them in order to allow him his tough major. If his studies required less time, of course he could look for work. He would not want to just sponge off his parents anyway. Like most young adults, he wants to provide for himself. Really most 18+ year olds do want to, I think.

[SavedintheCity]

effort=results.

Sorry disagree. Also a very American perspective. Trying the same thing over and over again and failing is the proof that this is a false equation.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results" --Albert Einstein

Out in the real world, things aren't handed to you just because. I think a big cause of the debt problem is that kids leave home expecting to maintain the same standard of living they had with mom and dad. But mom and dad worked for many years to reach that level. They didn't live that way when they were just starting out and neither should you. You need to earn it yourself.

Again, I respectfully disagree. This is again the "children must suffer like I suffered" mentality. Sure I completely agree with you that children should be taught responsible financial habits and that they should be encouraged to follow those habits in college, but I have not worked my entire life to create a certain standard of living so that my child will be in the same position I was in when I started out. I want them to enjoy a higher standard of living than I did as a child. Why else would I have worked so hard? So that my family must start over again once they are in college?

I agree completely. I partied quite a bit in college. But I also busted my butt studying and maintaining an excellent GPA, made Dean's list a few times and got accepted to med school when I was done. Partying and doing well in college are not mutually exclusive.

I experienced similar results. In fact, it is my experience that partying (within reason) in college=success later. Personal connections are the building blocks to a successful future, not that you got an A instead of an A- in discrete math.

Vid game palying isn't what I consider partying, but it can kill college careers

Saddest thing I have heard in a long time. Although I can totally believe it.

[Scanner]

If you go back to my original post that started the thread, I am not suggesting that the college student toil away 40 hours/week in a minimum wage job in addition to a full course load.

But I see nothing wrong with working 15 hours/week during the year and perhaps 40-50 hours/week in the summer. I even said "beach lifeguarding" was okay, LOL. I do think these "minimum wage" jobs are a right of passage that we all should go through to a certain extent (and to which the NJ shore community depends on to a great extent, I know).

Is that really a "Protestant/Quaker" work ethic? I thought I'd get criticized for being a little lax if anything.

What is your alternative?

Import immigrants to do all the minimum wage work?

You know, I think it goes beyond just the money - I remember different things about my "piddly jobs."

Here are the jobs I have had and what I have learned; I did not list them chronologically, just what popped into my head:

Rental Center: learned a little equipment maintenance and operation. Learned my way around by delivering.

Produce Clerk: wasn't too good at this one, LOL

Gas attendant: Learned to flirt with women and how to plug a flat.

Beach lifeguard: Perfected flirting with women and learned confidence

Pizza delivery: Learned tips is a good way to make money

Microbiology lab assistant: Learned about academia a bit.

Parking lot attendant: I can back a car into a spot you wouldn't dream of trying.

Phlebotomist: Learned I wanted to work in healthcare but not too closely in a hospital (influenced my decision to be a chiropractor)

Waiting tables: Learned customer service

Dishwasher: It's good not to come to work drunk from college partying even if you are just doing dishes.

Now. . .none of this goes on my CV but these are things that contributed to who I am.

Why deprive the poor American boys and girls of this?

[disneysteve]

Again, I respectfully disagree. This is again the "children must suffer like I suffered" mentality. Sure I completely agree with you that children should be taught responsible financial habits and that they should be encouraged to follow those habits in college, but I have not worked my entire life to create a certain standard of living so that my child will be in the same position I was in when I started out. I want them to enjoy a higher standard of living than I did as a child. Why else would I have worked so hard? So that my family must start over again once they are in college?

I truly doubt that your family would be starting over again, just as I'm sure that when I left home, my initial standard of living was far better than what my parents experienced at the same point in their lives. Have you been on a college campus lately? The dorm amenities and standard of living are luxurious compared to what I had in the mid-80s.

Think of it as climbing a ladder. Maybe your grandfather started at the bottom and during his life got to the 2nd rung. Your father started at the 1st rung and got to the 3rd rung. You then started at 2 and maybe got to 5. Your kids will go out and start at 4 and end up at 7 or 8. Each generation starts out higher than the previous generation started and ends up higher than ever.

I see nothing wrong with my daughter having to "suffer" a bit when she starts out to better appreciate what she has, what we have, and what it takes to achieve success in the world. That doesn't mean I want her to go from our nice suburban home to some tenement in the inner city, but getting knocked down a rung isn't a bad thing in my mind.

[fairy74]

I see nothing wrong with my daughter having to "suffer" a bit when she starts out to better appreciate what she has, what we have, and what it takes to achieve success in the world. That doesn't mean I want her to go from our nice suburban home to some tenement in the inner city, but getting knocked down a rung isn't a bad thing in my mind.

Very well said!

[SavedintheCity]

I am not suggesting that the college student toil away 40 hours/week in a minimum wage job in addition to a full course load.

But I see nothing wrong with working 15 hours/week during the year and perhaps 40-50 hours/week in the summer. I even said "beach lifeguarding" was okay, LOL. I do think these "minimum wage" jobs are a right of passage that we all should go through to a certain extent (and to which the NJ shore community depends on to a great extent, I know).

What is your alternative?

Rental Center: learned a little equipment maintenance and operation. Learned my way around by delivering.

Produce Clerk: wasn't too good at this one, LOL

Gas attendant: Learned to flirt with women and how to plug a flat.

Beach lifeguard: Perfected flirting with women and learned confidence

Pizza delivery: Learned tips is a good way to make money

Microbiology lab assistant: Learned about academia a bit.

Parking lot attendant: I can back a car into a spot you wouldn't dream of trying.

Phlebotomist: Learned I wanted to work in healthcare but not too closely in a hospital (influenced my decision to be a chiropractor)

Waiting tables: Learned customer service

Dishwasher: It's good not to come to work drunk from college partying even if you are just doing dishes.

Why deprive the poor American boys and girls of this?

I understood the spirit of your first post, I just don't think that there is any merit in working some menial job for ~minimum wage when my child could be doing any number of other useful things like learning a language, playing a sport, practicing an instrument, taking an art class, taking a scuba class, leaning to code, whatever. There is a lifetime of work ahead of our children. Starting out working in childhood is an excellent way of preventing a child from being a child. (Notice I use the word child on purpose as anyone who is still a college student is still a child in my book).

I don't precisely care that my decision to allow my child to be a child prevents quality lifeguarding on the Jersey shore. Sure everyone has a story of a coddled, cosseted peter pan who is incapable of growing up, but it is my experience that these spoiled brats are a result of poor/absent parenting, and not due to the lack of suffering. Again, the resolute protestant mindset that a child must suffer. I guess I am vastly outnumbered on an American budgeting website, but hey you all need a devil's advocate right?

[thekid]

I understood the spirit of your first post, I just don't think that there is any merit in working some menial job for ~minimum wage when my child could be doing any number of other useful things like learning a language, playing a sport, practicing an instrument, taking an art class, taking a scuba class, leaning to code, whatever. There is a lifetime of work ahead of our children. Starting out working in childhood is an excellent way of preventing a child from being a child. (Notice I use the word child on purpose as anyone who is still a college student is still a child in my book).

I don't precisely care that my decision to allow my child to be a child prevents quality lifeguarding on the Jersey shore. Sure everyone has a story of a coddled, cosseted peter pan who is incapable of growing up, but it is my experience that these spoiled brats are a result of poor/absent parenting, and not due to the lack of suffering. Again, the resolute protestant mindset that a child must suffer. I guess I am vastly outnumbered on an American budgeting website, but hey you all need a devil's advocate right?

What's with all the American/Protestant thing? I'm a french canadian of western european decent catholic raised turned agnostic. I still believe part time work is good for late teens / young adults (not quite called children once they are in college age). I don't call it "suffering" either to work some.

I strongly disagree that "spoiled brats" are a result of poor/absent parenting, this tends to lead to many other problems but high sense of entitlement/low work ethic is not one of them. Spoiled brats are the result of parents who spoil their children. Giving them good work ethics from a young age is not making them suffer, it is adequately preparing them for life. DisneySteve was quite right that efforts=results. Things don't just "happen". Work makes things happen. Educating your child to not be affraid of hard work is one of the greatest advantages you can give them and I don't think it's possible to teach work ethics without work/reward training from a young age.

Oh, and, believe me, it is quite possible to, at the same time, work part time, study and party quite a bit during college.