student loan forgiveness

[GoodSteward]

I know of one person who was middle-aged that had a Mortician degree and went back to get his masters in teaching. He and his wife lived on that student loan for a couple years and they are NOT good with money. Walked away with 90k in student loan debt, which is up to 100k due to him still not paying it years and years later. He makes ok now (60-75k), but he still leaves it in deferment. I don't think he will ever pay it. Oh, and he never ended up doing anything with the masters. He is still a Mortician.

Another friend of mine has around 60k of student loan debt due to going to a local tech school that he found out wasn't accredited after he was into it. He also went for IT, which he found out he isn't good at. He never finished, and I don't think he is paying his either. It's been 8-10 years.

It's so sad. I just don't personally see the benefit of college for most people. They should just learn a trade or work up into management somewhere like Walmart or McDonalds. They don't make a killing, but management can make decent, $40ks-$50ks around here.

[msomnipotent]

It's so sad. I just don't personally see the benefit of college for most people. They should just learn a trade or work up into management somewhere like Walmart or McDonalds. They don't make a killing, but management can make decent, $40ks-$50ks around here.

My sister just got promoted to management at Walmart. You need a degree. Any degree will do, apparently. Her degree has something to do with psychology. And it takes a long time for a spot to open up. She has been working there over 10 years.

[disneysteve]

I just don't personally see the benefit of college for most people.

My sister just got promoted to management at Walmart. You need a degree.

I really don't get the college-bashing that goes on here. I would think especially among folks who are financially savvy, the benefit of higher education would be clear.

There aren't a ton of great jobs out there for folks with only a high school diploma or some 6-month certificate from some technical school. Sure, you can probably work your way up to something earning 30-40K or so but good luck supporting a family on that amount if you live anywhere near a major metropolitan area. It might work in rural mid-America but it certainly wouldn't work around here.

[Gailete]

I was between jobs at one point and knew of a need for a teacher at a church-based school. I asked for an application. It was absolutely the longest application I have ever seen, asking all sorts of intrusive questions, that I'm sure would never base a lawyer's eye specialing in work discrimination. They asked what the last book you had read was, what was the last movie you went to, and it went on and on. On the last page it mentioned the pay grade. Somewhere near $1K/month for teachers with a Bachelors and only a couple $100 more for a teacher with a Masters! For sure, even then, most could make more flipping burgers or cleaning toilets! I was appalled! I didn't bother filling out the application since I sure needed more than $1K/month to live on!

I can't even imagine how much someone might have paid for education to teach and then end up working there. It would be hopeless to even think that they could pay off any loan.

[GoodSteward]

My sister just got promoted to management at Walmart. You need a degree. Any degree will do, apparently. Her degree has something to do with psychology. And it takes a long time for a spot to open up. She has been working there over 10 years.

This is what I don't understand. A degree is needed, but the job doesn't require a degree to be able to perform. Walmart doesn't pay well enough to require a degree at those levels. My mother in law is a department manager at Walmart. She has a degree in medical (coding I think), and a degree in accounting. Both 2-year degrees, but she loves working at Walmart and makes around $11-$12/hr.

In my field, they want degrees, but it's a terrible marker of ability from my experience. I have no degree, but I have helped interview people with degrees and I knew more coming onto this this with no degree than they did with one. It's very frustrating. The degree is "needed" but isn't. Our Senior network admin/engineer was in charge of servers, networking, etc. He had a degree in electronics, but nothing to do with computers. It was more about circuitry. He was let go in a buy out due to his income, but he knew far more than the people that replaced him with degrees in their field and some experience.

I'm not against degrees, but I do get upset when a degree carries the notion of a level of ability that doesn't actually have to be there. I got hired when there were people with degrees and years of experience also interviewing. It's about knowledge in this field, but I know without a degree it'll be hard to ever get into a high level of management.

[disneysteve]

I was between jobs at one point and knew of a need for a teacher at a church-based school.

I can't even imagine how much someone might have paid for education to teach and then end up working there. It would be hopeless to even think that they could pay off any loan.

Religious schools often have trouble finding staff for just this reason. They can't afford to pay what the public schools are paying and they can't match the benefits either. I know we struggle with this at our synagogue.

[GoodSteward]

I really don't get the college-bashing that goes on here. I would think especially among folks who are financially savvy, the benefit of higher education would be clear.

There aren't a ton of great jobs out there for folks with only a high school diploma or some 6-month certificate from some technical school. Sure, you can probably work your way up to something earning 30-40K or so but good luck supporting a family on that amount if you live anywhere near a major metropolitan area. It might work in rural mid-America but it certainly wouldn't work around here.

Education doesn't have to be paid for at a college and doesn't have to be from a professors mouth to be learned. I learned by reading just as any college kid does. I just didn't do it in a classroom for most of it (I do have two certifications, but they covered stuff I already knew).

I love to learn. My ability to perform my job in my field requires knowledge, and you can get that knowledge without a school. I understand the degree is supposed to mean you know something, but I'm finding that simply isn't the case from the people I work with. In IT, Certificates are becoming a lot more popular due to them signifying knowledge in a specific area.

I've made it almost 6 years in a very large company, with a rather small IT department. You can't fake your way by. I've been the only one without a degree for most of my time here(recently hired an intern to go full time since he was going to school for IT), and people with degrees have been let go.

I'm all for higher education, but at what cost? I still want to get more schooling at some point, myself. However, it will only be because it's for my field. Not just for the sake of taking classes, and I doubt it will ever be a degree. I want more certifications. I can get those at a local tech school with state funding assistance and only be out a few grand out of pocket.

[GoodSteward]

I'll admit I'm biased based on my field. I know in your field Steve you can't get a job without a degree, except for maybe a secretary. From your perspective, it makes no sense. From mine, I fail to see the value at the level it's presented anyway. There is value to it, but a lot of that value is perceived rather than actual. I have IT friends who have bosses who are not good at IT, but somehow their degree makes them more qualified for that job even though they don't make good IT decisions. I guess that's why I get confused at this subject so much. It's just what I've been around.

Also, in response to the comment about jobs in NJ vs a LCOL. Those same jobs pay a lot higher in NJ. My counterparts in our NJ office are paid nearly double what I am for the same level of Job(less responsibility actually). It's just the nature of LCOL vs HCOL. I was told by my previous boss that a basic IT tech with little to no experience in NYC expects $90k a year starting out(he was interviewing for our NYC office). That same job here in GA starts out at $28k-35k.

I would imagine trade jobs are the same.

[GoodSteward]

Religious schools often have trouble finding staff for just this reason. They can't afford to pay what the public schools are paying and they can't match the benefits either. I know we struggle with this at our synagogue.

My Aunt is a principal at a very elite private school in Oregon. It's an amazing school, but the staff is underpaid(she only makes ~40-50 a year I believe as principal). They simply can't afford to pay the teachers what they are really worth. She said they make less than public schools and have fewer benefits. They all love what they do, though.

[disneysteve]

My Aunt is a principal at a very elite private school in Oregon. It's an amazing school, but the staff is underpaid(she only makes ~40-50 a year I believe as principal). They simply can't afford to pay the teachers what they are really worth. She said they make less than public schools and have fewer benefits. They all love what they do, though.

Exactly. We have great staff at our religious school. They are all there because they love what they do. They aren't in it for the money.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Well I know people who started at costco at 18 and make $25/hr working there. They are topped out but get the 10% match 401k, 4 weeks vacation, cheap medical and dental. And costco pays the same nationwide no COL balanced. So if you want a good job without a degree. Plus there they promote internally so without a degree you can become a manager. My cousin had a degree (general science) and worked at costco and was moving up the chain until she left. She was on the track and making more than the $50k. So you can get a degree and work somewhere and get promoted as well. She didn't need the degree but it made jumping up easier.

[Gailete]

To add a little something to the discussion:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/mike-meru-has-dollar1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen/ar-AAxNjSr?ocid=spartanntp

[disneysteve]

To add a little something to the discussion:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/care...cid=spartanntp

I read through the article waiting for this section to appear, because I knew it would:

The government repayment plan affords the Meru family a comfortable life. Their home is on a mountain with panoramic views of the snow-capped peaks surrounding Salt Lake City. They take vacations, including a recent trip to Havana. He drives a used Tesla.

This is what is insane about the whole process of loan forgiveness. Why pay your loans if you don't have to? Why live frugally when you can have a great life, make minimal loan payments, and have the debt erased after 25 years? There will be taxes to pay, of course, but I'm sure at that point he'll work out some payment plan with the IRS and just keep on doing what he's always done.

This stuff just drives me nuts, and I say that as someone who took out over 100K of student loans and worked my butt off and scrimped and saved to pay back every penny I owed. No special deals. No forgiveness. I made the payments and actually paid a lot more than the minimum so that my 25-year repayment only took me 12 years, and it would have been 10 but I was unemployed for a few months between jobs which slowed me down.

[Gailete]

I read through the article waiting for this section to appear, because I knew it would:

The government repayment plan affords the Meru family a comfortable life. Their home is on a mountain with panoramic views of the snow-capped peaks surrounding Salt Lake City. They take vacations, including a recent trip to Havana. He drives a used Tesla.

This is what is insane about the whole process of loan forgiveness. Why pay your loans if you don't have to? Why live frugally when you can have a great life, make minimal loan payments, and have the debt erased after 25 years? There will be taxes to pay, of course, but I'm sure at that point he'll work out some payment plan with the IRS and just keep on doing what he's always done.

This stuff just drives me nuts, and I say that as someone who took out over 100K of student loans and worked my butt off and scrimped and saved to pay back every penny I owed. No special deals. No forgiveness. I made the payments and actually paid a lot more than the minimum so that my 25-year repayment only took me 12 years, and it would have been 10 but I was unemployed for a few months between jobs which slowed me down.

Thank you for bringing the rest out Steve. I was prepping orders to go out in the mail, but as much as I did read, I thought it was astounding! That makes it even so much more so.

I also worked hard to pay off my student loan, which was not huge by any stretch of the imagination, but I got it paid off early as well through hard work. When it was paid off it was nice to have that extra money in play again. Then seeing my youngest son how he worked so hard to pay off his. He made extra payments as well, paid attention to the interest rates (I think there were 5 in total and had varying interest amounts. When he got near where the end was in site with just a bit more than a thousand to go, my parents sent him the money to pay off the rest! They appreciated his hard work, what it took for him to get and keep a full-time job, how he lived on cash with no credit cards and how he helps me so much to cope with RA, (he will be helping me get groceries in an hour). They wanted to honor that hard work. Wasn't something they could have done for all the grandchildren, but they made an exception for one.

Not trying to go off topic but reading how he was on a program to lower those costs, reminds me of the times I see folks on programs that benefits them financially because they are poor, while others of us equally poor but not living in a ghetto, have never even heard of the programs that we could also benefit by. One example being the WIC program. It was only AFTER my kids were past the point of age to be on the program that I found out that we would have been eligible! Considering what I had to do to feed the younger one, it would have been a huge blessing to be on that program. The first few years of our marriage and the babies first few years, my husband was getting laid off every late fall early winter for several months, which made things especially difficult. But in those days when you went to the doctors with an insurance card in your pocket instead of an MA card, I think the presumption was rich enough to not need programs, so not told about them. Now with the internet you can scour it to find out anything that might be of help. I suspect that if he or I had thought about it, we could have found a program somewhere to help with my sons loan payback costs, but Like Steve, he wanted that loan GONE!