VICE: What Happened To The Middle Class

[Singuy]

Discovered this on youtube and thought I share. We have these debates on this forum all the time. It's interesting to see experts battling it out. Lots of interesting stats I didn't know about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsgISof2j8U

[disneysteve]

That was interesting but I'm not sure how much of it really applies to the country as a whole. Detroit is really at the extreme of the issue, a town built on a single manufacturing industry that has either moved on to other places or become largely automated and nothing has come along to replace it.

They make some good points about education, crime, automation, etc. but really didn't suggest anything to improve the problem.

You can have someone in the White House say over and over that he is going to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US but that's total fantasy. Those jobs are gone forever. When a manufacturer can save $17/hour by replacing a human welder with a robotic one, those welding jobs aren't coming back.

[Singuy]

Having someone in the white house who promise to bring those exact jobs back IS the problem. Giving people false hope which prevent them from preparing for the future and lead them into thinking the past is still achievable.

These Americans can't see themselves voting for anyone who tells them that they need to do more to prepare better in the information age. Things are moving at the speed of light and it'll only get worst.

I constantly ask myself if my job can one day be replaced by a Siri/Alexa/Watson. I am betting my future is dim but 95% of my coworkers do not think so. There's a reason why I save 70% of my income, paid off my house, and shooting for complete FI in my 40s...because I don't think my job will exist by then. I had two choices, either FI..or prepare to change with the times...I picked FI.

I believe Americans are just not realistic when it comes to their own job security. They think they are "blind-sided" because of some "Washington policy" not looking out for the middle class.

[Nutria]

Having someone in the white house who promise to bring those exact jobs back IS the problem.

When was the last time a President didn't promise more jobs? Eisenhower, maybe??

[Singuy]

When was the last time a President didn't promise more jobs? Eisenhower, maybe??

Yeah I'm not singling out one president here...all politicians promise to get the jobs that were taken away from them back because like I said, no one wants to vote for the guy who points the finger at themselves. That's political suicide and every presidential candidate knows it.

It irks me when any president promise people the jobs they've lost back.

[corn18]

We have more jobs. Unemployment is at all time lows. Employment rate is rising. No large scale wage increases yet, but that will come. If you want a job, you can get one.

Wish more college kids were willing to get into manufacturing engineering. While the assembler jobs are diminishing, I could use a few good engineers to design and manage my assembly lines, to include product design for X (X=manufacturability, reliability, maintainability, cost). All this whoa is me talk about manufacturing jobs disappearing has lead them to other areas. The ones we do find, we snag them up fast. It's not as exciting as product design, but you'll never be unemployed. Someone has to program, setup and manage all those robots.

[Thrif-t]

@corn18, I've never even heard of manufacturing engineering, is that a field of study or would it be a mechanical engineer??

[corn18]

@corn18, I've never even heard of manufacturing engineering, is that a field of study or would it be a mechanical engineer??

It is a field of study, but any engineer can decide to be a manufacturing engineer (ME) as a career. The advantage of having a great ME at my assembly plant is they pay for themselves 10x or more. The plant was weak in this area before I showed up and now it is getting better. The result has been improved yields, reduced cycle times and much less scrap. Now I need them to redesign the product to make it easier to manufacture, and I can take out another 25% of direct cost. I love good ME's.

[disneysteve]

When was the last time a President didn't promise more jobs?

There's a difference between promising more jobs and promising specific jobs.

Every politician promises more jobs but to say you're going to bring back the factory jobs that got outsourced to China or put the coal miners back to work is a little more problematic.

[Nutria]

There's a difference between promising more jobs and promising specific jobs.

Every politician promises more jobs but to say you're going to bring back the factory jobs that got outsourced to China or put the coal miners back to work is a little more problematic.

I don't think so, since no Presidential candidate simply says "I promise more jobs." They go to some run down former factory town in Ohio, and say, "I have a plan!" while waving a White Paper.

[Singuy]

I would say every politician promises both which is the problem. No one wants to come off sounding like they are leaving struggling Americans behind.

[ShineBoldly]

It is pretty obvious that any politican will say literally anything to win the rally. As long as European mistake isn't done (lots of employment placements are given to refugees, you know the result) this will be fine.

[Singuy]

It is pretty obvious that any politican will say literally anything to win the rally. As long as European mistake isn't done (lots of employment placements are given to refugees, you know the result) this will be fine.

This is exactly the type of scapegoating mentality that causes people to get laid off or not find work.

Jobs are not distributed, it is based on supply and demand. The more you better yourself with education and technical skills, the higher demand you create for yourself. No one in their right mind would hire a refugee if you can do the job better or having superior skills.

Lets see, would I hire a refugee to engineer airplane engines who has nothing but a middle school education or someone who graduated with honors in aerospace engineer?

[disneysteve]

The more you better yourself with education and technical skills, the higher demand you create for yourself.

The one way that sometimes backfires is when potential employers start telling you that you are over-qualified for a position and won't even consider hiring you. I've never experienced it personally but I have a number of friends who have.

We have a friend who is looking for work right now and keeps running into this. Employers are interested in him for a management/executive position but not a lower level position even though that is what he is seeking. He has some health issues and there are some family issues so he doesn't want a job where he'll be flying around the country a lot (which he has done previously). He needs something local and more low key at this point but when he inquires about those positions, they take one look at his background and tell him he's over-qualified and that's the end of the discussion.

So more education and more skills is generally a good thing, until you hit a point where it actually works against you and you get shoehorned in to a narrow range of potential jobs.

[Singuy]

The one way that sometimes backfires is when potential employers start telling you that you are over-qualified for a position and won't even consider hiring you. I've never experienced it personally but I have a number of friends who have.

We have a friend who is looking for work right now and keeps running into this. Employers are interested in him for a management/executive position but not a lower level position even though that is what he is seeking. He has some health issues and there are some family issues so he doesn't want a job where he'll be flying around the country a lot (which he has done previously). He needs something local and more low key at this point but when he inquires about those positions, they take one look at his background and tell him he's over-qualified and that's the end of the discussion.

So more education and more skills is generally a good thing, until you hit a point where it actually works against you and you get shoehorned in to a narrow range of potential jobs.

Oh you don't have to tell me. In the world of Pharmacy, the more education and accreditation one has, the narrower the job perspective. No retail pharmacy(where bulk of the jobs are) would hire a pharmacist who has done residencies in a hospital. They feel that these over qualified individuals will eventually leave.

I just feel it's insane to blame foreigners/illegals/refugees on taking your low level jobs. People here has ample opportunity to do whatever they want and it's a personal problem if they want to piss it away by choosing starbucks as their career. You get a free education in a middle class family with no bombs/dictators/dirty water/food insecurity to deal with and yet you need to blame others for your inability to win at this easy life.