So About This Billionaire Tax

[Singuy]

I am all for paying taxes because I think what we get for the taxes we pay here is a good deal. Its not cheap to have a safe and functional society.

However I just don't understand why the democrats infuse so much politics into these proposed policies. Everyone know their billionaire tax on unrealized capital gains is impossible to pass because it'll crash millions of people pension plans and retirement savings. Not to mention how the government is not going to reimburse you your money back if the your unrealized gains tank. It's like a tax on what you could potentially sell to make a profit before selling it which is nuts. And these paper billionaires will be forced to liquidate their shares in mass amounts just to pay taxes because no bank will loan Elon Musk 60 billion dollars. So if this happen people look Elon will be just fine since he lives in a shack that cost 50k and works too many hours to enjoy his money anyways. However millions of people will end up paying for this as our retirement savings vanish due to the selling pressure caused by this.


Honestly it's nothing more than a way to drive more division between those who strongly believes in income inequity and those who don't while making about zero progress moving forward on having an actual plan.

[bjl584]

Seems like there is a lot of last minute scrambling going on to try to "find" money to pay for the spending plan currently on the table.
As they throw things against the wall to see what sticks, the public is increasingly souring on this bill.
People want supply chains restored, inflation tamed, cheaper fuel.
All the proposed spending doesn't do much to address those concerns.
And Biden, love him or hate him, isn't the best at articulating a message that resonates with the people.

As to why they are proposing something that is impossible and probably unconstitutional, who knows....

[ua_guy]

I think rather than politics, they're proposing to make tax policy more equitable for all levels of income.

If you don't agree with it, the least you could do is propose a viable alternative. And if there's an easy answer, why hasn't that already been done?

[Singuy]

I think rather than politics, they're proposing to make tax policy more equitable for all levels of income.

If you don't agree with it, the least you could do is propose a viable alternative. And if there's an easy answer, why hasn't that already been done?

There is no easy answer but there are plenty of impossible answers, just don't pick one of those.

I like luxury taxes as it's worst for the environment to create luxury goods. So raise taxes on cars over 100k, jet planes, watches, bags. People who have money loves it when exclusive goods are priced out of normal folks anyway.

[myrdale]

I like luxury taxes as it's worst for the environment to create luxury goods. So raise taxes on cars over 100k, jet planes, watches, bags. People who have money loves it when exclusive goods are priced out of normal folks anyway.

I both agree and disagree with this statement.

I am not at all convinced that it is worst for the environment to create luxury goods. If we are talking about diamonds or gold, sure thousands of tons of rocks have to be mined and processed. But does this apply as well to sports cars? And a lot of what people consider luxury cloths is just a name printed on a shirt or bag. Look up Supreme brand, it is just stupid what people will pay (the really stupid part is the aftermarket resale).

I would be OK with a luxury sales tax. If you can afford a $5,000 pair of shoes, I don't mind a 25% tax on it. But what defines luxury? Is it price alone?

[ua_guy]

There is no easy answer but there are plenty of impossible answers, just don't pick one of those.

I like luxury taxes as it's worst for the environment to create luxury goods. So raise taxes on cars over 100k, jet planes, watches, bags. People who have money loves it when exclusive goods are priced out of normal folks anyway.

There are already taxes on expensive cars, planes, watches, and bags. There aren't equitable taxes on the various ways the elite generate and hoard wealth, from which they exert power, which sets up somewhat of a dangerous system...dare I mention caste. Am I really to believe these people should deserve privilege and certain tax advantages...just because they have money? lol That's so un-American at its core, it hurts.

Stay focused on the issue. Biden presented a compelling strategy to pay for his economic plan, which is unlike predecessors who just wrote blank checks of American debt for everything they wanted. It needs a little shaping, but in the spirit of not going the route of toxic politics, why can't the two parties work together? And if it's such a horrible idea, why hasn't the other side presented a compromise that still accomplishes what the American people have been asking for?

[Singuy]

I both agree and disagree with this statement.

I am not at all convinced that it is worst for the environment to create luxury goods. If we are talking about diamonds or gold, sure thousands of tons of rocks have to be mined and processed. But does this apply as well to sports cars? And a lot of what people consider luxury cloths is just a name printed on a shirt or bag. Look up Supreme brand, it is just stupid what people will pay (the really stupid part is the aftermarket resale).

I would be OK with a luxury sales tax. If you can afford a $5,000 pair of shoes, I don't mind a 25% tax on it. But what defines luxury? Is it price alone?

Not every luxury item is bad for the environment but generally luxury cars at heavier with lower mpg, and most luxury handbags require a lot of high quality leather which needed many cows to make a handbag. Automated bags/cars on an assembly line is much better for the environment when it comes to the amount of energy used per item(tho waste on the automation side is another story). Also if we are really serious about climate change, I believe big oil should be paying their fair share(however they will just pass it onto regular folks). At least this incentives people to pollute less(by carpooling or taking public transportation if they are being priced out of gas).

[Singuy]

There are already taxes on expensive cars, planes, watches, and bags. There aren't equitable taxes on the various ways the elite generate and hoard wealth, from which they exert power, which sets up somewhat of a dangerous system...dare I mention caste. Am I really to believe these people should deserve privilege and certain tax advantages...just because they have money? lol That's so un-American at its core, it hurts.

Stay focused on the issue. Biden presented a compelling strategy to pay for his economic plan, which is unlike predecessors who just wrote blank checks of American debt for everything they wanted. It needs a little shaping, but in the spirit of not going the route of toxic politics, why can't the two parties work together? And if it's such a horrible idea, why hasn't the other side presented a compromise that still accomplishes what the American people have been asking for?

Not taxing on unrealized gains is not exactly an elite tax advantage since everyone with any exposure to the market or appreciating assets enjoy this and it's generally how things shouldn't be taxed in the real world when those gains are fluid until you lock in profits. Should you pay the IRS taxes on your unrealized gains on your house before you sell it? And no property tax is not a tax on unrealized gains. It's a tax to support local services everyone pays(including renters). And the government keeps collecting that check even when my house was underwater for half a decade.

[ua_guy]

Not taxing on unrealized gains is not exactly an elite tax advantage since everyone with any exposure to the market or appreciating assets enjoy this and it's generally how things shouldn't be taxed in the real world when those gains are fluid until you lock in profits. Should you pay the IRS taxes on your unrealized gains on your house before you sell it? And no property tax is not a tax on unrealized gains. It's a tax to support local services everyone pays(including renters). And the government keeps collecting that check even when my house was underwater for half a decade.

I wasn't arguing against property taxes, nor did I mention them. And no, you shouldn't pay unrealized gains on your primary home, the residence you live in. But on 2, 3, 10? vacation and rental properties? Yes. And the other ways one generates income without paying tax like wage earners.

[Singuy]

I wasn't arguing against property taxes, nor did I mention them. And no, you shouldn't pay unrealized gains on your primary home, the residence you live in. But on 2, 3, 10? vacation and rental properties? Yes. And the other ways one generates income without paying tax like wage earners.

So if we have a housing market crash, would these taxes on you unrealized gains during the market bubble be refunded?

Buys a rental spent, 40k down on a 300k rental. Rental goes up in value to 600k, you pay 100k in taxes. Then rental's value crashes down to 200k..

So in say a 3 year span, you have lost 100k in equality and 100k to unrealized gain taxes...

Yeah this is fine...pretty sure this doesn't bankrupt people if we have a housing market crash. And yea, no one wants to buy more than one house because any large appreciation bubble will just bankrupt people with gigantic tax bills.

[rennigade]

The people who proposed taxing unrealized gains should be fired. Are you then taxed when you actually sell and lock in profits? People will stop investing.

The money will come from the same place it always does, the largest class of people are going to be shook down like always. It's the working class and semi upper class people.

[james.hendrickson]

I'm with Singuy on this - its not clear to me why this proposal is even being considered. Its doesn't make any sense at all.

[kork13]

I do agree that I'm not sure how a tax on unrealized gains can ever be practical or fair -- such taxes would be levied at arbitrary times, and drive all kinds of market instability in the process.

A better method would be to: (1) increase (realized) capital gains taxes for the targeted groups of people; (2) cut off the "loopholes" (methods/strategies/choose your term) that allow said individuals (or people generally) to NOT realize their capital gains -- basically, force capital gains to be realized more regularly, at which time the government can tax it to their little hearts' desire.

The funny thing is that half of the loons in DC know exactly what would need to be targeted to do this, because they use such strategies themselves. Most of our politicians become quite wealthy over time, and remain in power for decades. (Sorry, did I mistakenly advocate for strict term limits again? )

[myrdale]

Stay focused on the issue. Biden presented a compelling strategy to pay for his economic plan, which is unlike predecessors who just wrote blank checks of American debt for everything they wanted. It needs a little shaping, but in the spirit of not going the route of toxic politics, why can't the two parties work together? And if it's such a horrible idea, why hasn't the other side presented a compromise that still accomplishes what the American people have been asking for?

Exactly how much more wealth should we steal from the billionaires?

A quick google search revealed the following:

The top 50% of the population pays 96.9% of all income tax.
The top 5% of the population pays 59.1% of all income tax.
The top 1% of the population pays 38.5% of all income tax.

The bottom 50% of the population pays 3.1% of all income tax.

It seems to me, half the population ain't exactly carrying their own weight.

Honestly though, we need to take the target off of the backs of the people who do the most to keep this country moving. We need to get out of their way. It's envy, greed, and victim hood mentality that keeps blaming the rich.

[Scallywag]

If the govt taxes "unrealized gains", will it refund you if those "gains" end up being losses when the market starts to sell, sell, sell and sell some more ad nauseum?

Who the freak even comes up with such brilliant ideas intended to bankrupt nearly every single investor out there?