Ethical or Not?

[FLA]

if you're feeling iffy on whether it's ethical to take money for the items, why not give things like the laptops to kids who can't afford them? Refurbish them and give them to the poorer school districts

[HundredK]

I'm not trying to be difficult but I'm really trying to understand this point of view.

My office is getting a new laser printer. My boss says, "Does anybody want the old one?" I raise my hand and he says it's mine for the taking. I take it home and sell it on craigslist for $50.

I just don't see what part of that scenario makes me a thief.

The scenario you mention is a lot different. A small printer that maybe has FMV of $50 is a lot different than routinely taking expired IT equipment like computers for the sole purpose of selling on eBay. It's not enough value to worry about imputing income, and you have full permission from your company which is essentially transfer of ownership. I assume his company has an agreement with the recycling outfit for a reason, and probably has a contract in place around how the recyclable equipment is to be treated. They also officially transfer ownership to them.

In the OPs case, if I am understanding correctly, the items are taken without management's knowledge, because management BELIEVES they have gone to the recycler. The OP then profits from them, and does this routinely. I know there was some mention of a boss maybe offhandedly saying it's ok or making light of it, but that is a lot different than getting permission from those who actually control the assets (and ensuring that the taxable income is dealt with appropriately). He also admits that if it was known he does this, then others would want in on the action, and he doesn't want to share that. Also, the consequences of reselling IT equipment can be awful. Think about it from the perspective of the employer. We're not talking about taking home an old printer once a year, we're talking apparently about enough to generate several thousand dollars of income for the OP over some period of time.

It's opening an ugly can of worms, IMO, and if I were an employer, I'd certainly not appreciate nor tolerate these actions (which is probably why they have an agreement in place with a recycling company). There's nothing about anything the OP has said that makes me think this is an innocent, ok to do type of thing. It's not something I feel should be condoned.

[HundredK]

I dont agree with you or anyone else that says its stealing.

If that were true, you wouldn't be wondering if it's ethical.

[disneysteve]

In the OPs case, if I am understanding correctly, the items are taken without management's knowledge, because management BELIEVES they have gone to the recycler.

I don't see anything in rennigade's post that supports this.

If a bunch of discarded items were stacked up in the corner, the waste company was called and paid to come get them, and before they arrived, OP swiped a few pieces for himself without telling anyone, that would be a problem because the fee the company is charging is probably in part based on how much stuff they are coming for. But again, I reread the OP and that doesn't sound like what's happening here.

I think this situation sounds fuzzier than it really is because of the difficulty in explaining it online.

Go back to page 2 and reread post #29. Do you think that employee stole the printer? Would it be okay for him to turn around and sell it? If not, why not?

[~bs]

I think this situation sounds fuzzier than it really is because of the difficulty in explaining it online.

My guess is that its known...the 3 techs at the corporate office will want to start doing it. How will they determine who gets what to sell? Im all by myself in my office in another state. Theres no one to compete with.

Not to mention if its official and everyone starts doing it...what happens when someone gets knifed or mugged when doing a transaction? I dont think my boss could ever say sure go ahead...then he/company could possibly be liable.

I don't know... I think it's fuzzy enough if poster felt the need to ask in the first place. Did you happen to see the above post? Does the concerns he's raising seem like something above board? If there's a corporate office, I'm pretty sure they will have a equipment retention policy. I would look to that document as a guide of what to do in this situation. If there is no provision in that document that allows employees to take equipment to be disposed of on a first come first serve basis, it is employee theft. The fact that a supervisor is complicit does not absolve you from any wrong doing, it just makes him an accomplice and also at fault if someone from the corporate office discovers what's happening and decides to take action.

If there's nothing wrong, then what harm is there in getting written documentation from the company explicitly giving the ok? A document providing clarity as to the company's position/policy will only benefit both parties.

[scfr]

OP - If you showed up for one of your Craigslist sales and the buyer was your manager, how would you feel? Perfectly cool and happy, because you know without a doubt that what you are doing is legal, ethical, and in no way in violation of company policy? Or would you feel uncomfortable and afraid that you might get reprimanded, fired, or worse?

[TexasHusker]

I think after three pages that we can reasonably conclude that the original post/question was an insincere one.

Carry on ...

[disneysteve]

If there's a corporate office, I'm pretty sure they will have a equipment retention policy. I would look to that document as a guide of what to do in this situation. If there is no provision in that document that allows employees to take equipment to be disposed of on a first come first serve basis, it is employee theft. The fact that a supervisor is complicit does not absolve you from any wrong doing, it just makes him an accomplice and also at fault if someone from the corporate office discovers what's happening and decides to take action.

Fair point. I've never worked for a large company like that so my point of view is skewed. I'm not accustomed to there being written policies, corporate offices, and such.

And numerous times over the years, when our office was discarding something, I did take it home and sell it. Never once did the thought cross my mind that it wasn't okay to do so. Once it went in the trash, it was fair game. A few times my boss even encouraged me to do so.

[rennigade]

If there's a corporate office, I'm pretty sure they will have a equipment retention policy. I would look to that document as a guide of what to do in this situation.

The only policy is we keep equipment for 5 years (life of the warranty.) Once equipment is out of warranty it goes. We have written guidelines on data retention...but not "what to do with old hardware" besides disposing it..whether someone takes it for free or we pay someone...we dont care. Just as long as it doesnt pile up.

[StormRichards]

The only policy is we keep equipment for 5 years (life of the warranty.) Once equipment is out of warranty it goes. We have written guidelines on data retention...but not "what to do with old hardware" besides disposing it..whether someone takes it for free or we pay someone...we dont care. Just as long as it doesnt pile up.

I do believe there is the possibility that this policy doesn't exist. I also believe there is the possibility that it exists and you just aren't aware of it.

One thing I am certain of is that it SHOULD exist. Sometimes corporations don't have a necessary policy for something until they run into a problem with the Government. You better believe that if a bin of laptops/components were dumped in the woods and were traced back to your company, a policy would be generated after they cut a check for the fines.

[disneysteve]

One thing I am certain of is that it SHOULD exist. Sometimes corporations don't have a necessary policy for something until they run into a problem with the Government.

It doesn't even need to involve the government. For many years, I was on the board of our synagogue. We were responsible for things like "corporate" policies. Many, many times over the years, we created a policy when a situation arose and we realized that there was no existing policy in place to guide us in how to deal with it.

[StormRichards]

It doesn't even need to involve the government. For many years, I was on the board of our synagogue. We were responsible for things like "corporate" policies. Many, many times over the years, we created a policy when a situation arose and we realized that there was no existing policy in place to guide us in how to deal with it.

Great point. That is an example of a board acting responsibly when they observe something that needs done/changed. Sadly there are times where nothing changes until it hits the bottom line or causes negative publicity.

[Nutria]

For many years, I was on the board of our synagogue. We were responsible for things like "corporate" policies. Many, many times over the years, we created a policy when a situation arose and we realized that there was no existing policy in place to guide us in how to deal with it.

My kids wonder why there are sooooo many rules on what not to wear to (Catholic) school dances, and that's pretty much what I said...

[disneysteve]

My kids wonder why there are sooooo many rules on what not to wear to (Catholic) school dances, and that's pretty much what I said...

LOL. Sometimes the rules do get out of hand, though. My daughter was recently looking at security rules for something - maybe a flight or entrance to a venue, I don't remember. One of the stated rules was banning grenades and other explosive devices. The fact that they specifically singled out grenades really stood out to her as odd but I suspect they added that after catching someone with a grenade.

[HundredK]

In a company of 500 people, I doubt that your boss is the Fixed Assets manager, or has the authority to allow people to walk out of the building with equipment. Go chat with your CFO or Controller and see what they think.

I just asked my husband about this scenario and what he thought. He kind of laughed and his eyebrows shot up. He apparently had just done an annual training at his company where they specifically reminded everyone that this exact behavior is unethical and is considered theft. Their words, not mine. His company is very large - big enough to have been vetted by plenty of lawyers and HR experts.

Honestly, I would refrain from this behavior in the future. It's fraught with problems and could cost you your job.