Ethical or Not?

[msomnipotent]

My husband's company lets the employees take company branded things for home use only. They want their employees to use their own products. My husband says there is a verbal rule (which probably means it is written as well) that branded items cannot be resold because the items may or may not be 100% up to snuff and they don't want "customers" having a bad experience. It leads me to think that if they were remodeling the offices and gave away used chairs, we wouldn't get in trouble for selling them. Selling the actual equipment would be a problem.

[Nutria]

LOL. Sometimes the rules do get out of hand, though. My daughter was recently looking at security rules for something - maybe a flight or entrance to a venue, I don't remember. One of the stated rules was banning grenades and other explosive devices. The fact that they specifically singled out grenades really stood out to her as odd but I suspect they added that after catching someone with a grenade.

"There's no rule specifically banning me from carrying hand grenades on board commercial airliners, so I'm going to sue you for not letting me carry dud hand grenades on board commercial airliners!"

"There's no rule saying I can't wear 4" sequined open-toed pumps and a dress with a slit up to my hips, so I'm going to whine and protest at the unfairness when you don't let me in!"

[Mjenn]

Not ethical and I'm kind of surprised -- All of the companies I have worked with and the computers and iPads my kids have gotten from school have a buy back program. They are phased out every 3 years we get a new machine and we are given the option to purchase our old machine for private use for a very reasonable rate or return it. Either way we get the new machine.

A few times we have bought the machine, we gave one to my aging MIL who doesn't have a lot of money.

But the company I currently work for has a very strict disclosure policy for tax reporting purposes - we are often allowed access to things for personal use, but we do have to clear it with HR.

[disneysteve]

we are given the option to purchase our old machine for private use

we are often allowed access to things for personal use

For those who have policies like this, how do they define "personal use"? Does the policy specify what you can and can't do with it? Does the policy specify how you are to dispose of the item when you no longer need it?

[Spiffster]

Been in IT 16 years. I have never sold any IT equipment without first letting managers know about it. I have sold a few high-end network devices on eBay and proceeds were used to buy new equipment for the company. I would just expense fees and such. All HDD on old equipment are destroyed and we receive a certificate of destruction. Low level wiping is just fine as long as you make a few passes. We really dont want to risk stolen data... So even though we allow employees to take old equipment for personal use, they usually dont have hard drives.

So yeah, unethical IMO but I know its pretty common thing in IT. That certainly doesnt make it ok.

I know a business owner who gets all his (stolen) PC equipment for FREE from some prick IT asshole that exchanges his employers (NEW) IT equipment for services that the business provides (Body shop). His employer has no idea this is going on and this SOB get paid 6 figures so its not like he's hard up for cash. Now that, is extremely unethical.

[StormRichards]

Let's see if I can get Rennigade off the hot seat. I created my own thread with the same title.

http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/general-discussion/85019-ethical-not.html

[~bs]

Fair point. I've never worked for a large company like that so my point of view is skewed. I'm not accustomed to there being written policies, corporate offices, and such.

And numerous times over the years, when our office was discarding something, I did take it home and sell it. Never once did the thought cross my mind that it wasn't okay to do so. Once it went in the trash, it was fair game. A few times my boss even encouraged me to do so.

And on that point, dumpster diving in most states is legal. Trespassing to dumpster dive is illegal, but you're an employee, and technically not tresspassing. The area can be gray, hence the reason most companies will have a policy regarding this.

My company has a strict policy regarding this that follows a hierarchy, first need to see if other departments/divisions need it, then see if charitable organizations would need it, then dispose of using a erecycler. Employees are forbidden from taking the equipment. I know other companies that have a strict policy to destroy the equipment to prevent employees or the general public from taking it out of the trash. It all depends on the company, but if in doubt better to get written clarification from someone with authority to speak on the manner. OTOH, if you're willing to risk your job if the company doesn't agree with what you're doing, hoping for just a reprimand by pleading ignorance, that is up to you.

[disneysteve]

I know other companies that have a strict policy to destroy the equipment to prevent employees or the general public from taking it out of the trash.

My wife used to be the receiving manager for a sporting goods store and they had a ridiculous rule like that. They destroyed thousands of dollars of merchandise rather than offering it to employees. It was such a huge waste.

[Mjenn]

For those who have policies like this, how do they define "personal use"? Does the policy specify what you can and can't do with it? Does the policy specify how you are to dispose of the item when you no longer need it?

If we purchase a used machine from the company (or my kids' school for that matter) it has to be wiped clean by a service the company provides and entered in to the system as being passed on to us so that 1) they can ensure that no unauthorized data is on the computer 2) Everything is tracked in the system and they know where their 'assets' have gone (they are not paying for a computer to be taken away that isn't taken away or a computer has 'gone missing').

Once I buy the item it is mine (it is now out of their system), and I can sell it on eBay and maybe make a small amount. The ones we got we either still use or they have died.

For personal use, I can use my work mobile phone and laptop for private use as well -- as long as I do not rack up expenses on my phone for private use (we have an unlimited plan so this means don't use the phone while you are vacationing abroad) and don't access sensitive information in public places. I choose to have a separate phone and lap top for my private use, but many I work with do not. The only stipulation in my agreement specifically is 'no porn'. My husband works for another company with the same policy and he only has one phone he uses for everything(his work one) and has never had a problem in all the years he has been employed there.

I have borrowed a projector from work for private functions at the weekend, with permission from my boss.

For things like furniture the department usually sends out an email that something is going to the dump soon, does anyone want it? And it is usually snapped up in seconds.

[~bs]

My wife used to be the receiving manager for a sporting goods store and they had a ridiculous rule like that. They destroyed thousands of dollars of merchandise rather than offering it to employees. It was such a huge waste.

I used to work in a warehouse, and have destroyed tons of equipment with my trusty forklift due to this policy.

I think the reason why they don't offer it to employees at a discount can be because items are recalled or returned to the manufacturer, and required to be destroyed or because the item was a return (and potentially faulty). The employer doesn't want to risk selling faulty equipment to the employee and getting sued. Normally there's actually a reason big companies have these sort or policies. Likely they got burned on multimillion dollar lawsuits in the past, so corporate came up with some heavy handed policy in response.

[Nutria]

My wife used to be the receiving manager for a sporting goods store and they had a ridiculous rule like that. They destroyed thousands of dollars of merchandise rather than offering it to employees. It was such a huge waste.

I bet they didn't have such a policy until some jerk employee started selling not-really-obsolete stuff out of his apartment and prosecuting him was such a big hassle because of a vaguely worded company policy that the company just decided that the path of least resistance was to destroy it all.

Just like with the other examples of seemingly stupid rules.

[disneysteve]

I think the reason why they don't offer it to employees at a discount can be because items are recalled or returned to the manufacturer, and required to be destroyed or because the item was a return (and potentially faulty). The employer doesn't want to risk selling faulty equipment to the employee and getting sued.

I can understand it with returns or recalls. My wife got to destroy lots of brand new merchandise that was shipped to her store accidentally and the company just didn't want the expense of return shipping.

[disneysteve]

I bet they didn't have such a policy until some jerk employee started selling not-really-obsolete stuff out of his apartment and prosecuting him was such a big hassle because of a vaguely worded company policy that the company just decided that the path of least resistance was to destroy it all.

Just like with the other examples of seemingly stupid rules.

In my wife's place, it was actually the policies of the individual vendors, not her company. If she got a box that didn't belong to them, she called the vendor to report it. Sometimes they said to send it back. Sometimes they said to destroy it. Every once in a while, they said to just keep it and give the items out to whoever. I think it was basically dependent on the cost of returning it and the value of the items.

[rennigade]

My wife used to be the receiving manager for a sporting goods store and they had a ridiculous rule like that. They destroyed thousands of dollars of merchandise rather than offering it to employees. It was such a huge waste.

I know home depot is notorious for this. Apparently when items have been on the shelf for too long...when rung up at the register they ring up as $0.01. There used to be an entire thread dedicated to this on this deal site I go to but I havent seen it in a while.

Customers could try to use self checkout to buy the product because if it rings up as 1 penny home depot employees are supposed to take the merchandise and destroy it...then throw it in the dumpster. Pretty messed up imo. Its just so wasteful. I swear our society has this throw away mentality.

[TexasHusker]

Its just so wasteful. I swear our society has this throw away mentality.

OK I'm coming around now. Re-selling your company's old computers is a matter of patriotic duty. I would go with that one when the question inevitably arises.

I might even pull out the ol' JFK quote "ask not what your country can do for you..."