Does your doc have your best interests in mind?

[disneysteve]

they provide meds cheaper in third world countries.

Feel free to head over to a third world country and view the facilities that create these wonderful cheap drugs. It wont take you long to figure out why they're so cheap. Start looking at the label of the drugs you take. If its anywhere outside of the US...specifically india or china...good luck.

rennigade, I think you misunderstood FLA's comment. It wasn't about manufacturing the drugs in other countries. It was about selling them in other countries. The US has the highest prices because we allow it. Most other countries have some sort of government price control in place to limit what companies can charge, so the companies make their big profits in the US market at the same time they are selling drugs far cheaper in other countries (regardless of where they are made). That's why one thing we heard about in the campaign was allowing the re-importation of drugs, that is, drugs made in the US and then shipped to other countries to be sold cheaper. Let Americans buy those cheaper drugs (like from Canadian pharmacies, for example).

[GoodSteward]

Well, considering the pharmaceutical business is a multi billion dollar business, I highly doubt they really want to cure everything. Some things to show they are doing something, sure, but mostly just ease symptoms. This keeps them coming back for more meds, and the dr's are happy to get to write prescriptions which means a dr visit. Just my two cents from my end of the game. lol

I'm not sure what your point is on this particular story. An x-ray shouldn't be done until after at least a month of conservative treatment (medication, physical therapy, exercise, etc.). The only exception would be if there was trauma such as a fall or auto accident. So if the chiropractor wanted to treat you a few times first to see if you got better, that's exactly what the guidelines say should happen.

My mom has worked for a chiropractor(and his wife who is also a chiropractor) for over 20 years as the receptionist and now office manager. The Dr has been doing this for around 40 years (soon to retire). If there is one thing they have taught me, it's that you shouldn't let a chiropractor even touch you without Xrays. You can't assume what is going on. Considering they manipulate the bones(put things back in place) you have to see what is going on first to know what even needs adjusting. Sure, they may know where to start but Xrays are protections from lawsuits where the DR made it worse by not knowing for sure what is going on, as well as the damage that could come to the patient. This isn't like a normal visit, they are actually adjusting things inside you.

Also, Chiropractors get a bad rap from telling bogus stuff, have bad financing offers(one in our town has tricked people into signing a contract that costs them thousands...which is illegal cause you can't prepay a dr) and because people have to keep going back. This is because of muscle memory. Your bones get out of alignment and your muscles get used to that and keep them there. Then you go, get adjusted, find more pain(muscles getting moved around) and the muscles try to put things back. You have to go very often at first to start this process to until the muscle has learned, but over time you can go less and less down to just a few times a year as needed. People just want a shot and keep going ,but you can't do that with bones. Letting that go causes irreversible bone damage and bone loss. I've heard and seen a LOT.

[disneysteve]

You can't assume what is going on. Considering they manipulate the bones(put things back in place) you have to see what is going on first to know what even needs adjusting.

It doesn't work that way.

You don't "assume" what is going on. You do this wondrous thing called a physical exam. X-rays do absolutely nothing as far as telling the provider what adjustments are needed. That can only be determined on exam.

Now your point about CYA from lawsuits is a valid one. Unfortunately, that's the society we live in. Doctors and chiropractors do millions of unnecessary x-rays for just that reason. But I can assure you that there are generally only 2 reasons a chiropractor is doing an x-ray: covering his butt and making money from the x-ray charge. HOWEVER, as I said earlier, if there has been any trauma, then an x-ray is certainly appropriate. Chiropractors often handle a lot of personal injury cases, so for those patients, x-rays are fine.

[FLA]

rennigade, I think you misunderstood FLA's comment. It wasn't about manufacturing the drugs in other countries. It was about selling them in other countries. The US has the highest prices because we allow it. Most other countries have some sort of government price control in place to limit what companies can charge, so the companies make their big profits in the US market at the same time they are selling drugs far cheaper in other countries (regardless of where they are made). That's why one thing we heard about in the campaign was allowing the re-importation of drugs, that is, drugs made in the US and then shipped to other countries to be sold cheaper. Let Americans buy those cheaper drugs (like from Canadian pharmacies, for example).

yes this is what I meant

[TexasHusker]

Essentially, we want the latest and greatest drug therapies, the ones that hold hope of a cure or reprieve, but we really need someone else to pay for them.

Champagne taste on a beer budget.

I get it. I've been there.

But there can be no co-mingling of capitalism and socialism: It must be one or the other, and each has its vices. Socialist medicine potentially is affordable to everyone, but that comes at great price. See our neighbors to the north as an example: Rich Canadians fly to Seattle, Buffalo, Detroit, and NYC for their care, because they can't get the care/surgery/therapies they would like in their system.

But if America goes that route, there will be no country to turn to.

Choose your poison, but do so carefully.

[FLA]

My back goes out from time to time from lifting heavy patients over the years and it's consistently the same issue, sciatic pain Maybe once a year I need to see my chiropractor, it usually takes 3 sessions to fix, she takes my insurance, she doesn't try to make me come in regularly, she doesn't do X-rays or try to sell me anything. And it's the only thing that makes the pain go away. I'm glad insurance companies are paying for chiro now but the bad apples you hear about scare me.

[GoodSteward]

It doesn't work that way.

I'm not a doctor, so I can't really argue this one way or the other. I just know what I've been told.

They don't have to Xray everytime. The point they make is you shouldn't be adjusting a person you don't know the history behind. An Xray reveals what is going on to be safe for everybody. I've heard of other chiropractors not x-raying, but apparently it is a taboo thing to do in that field. Knowing the people like I do I know they are not trying to make money off X-raying people. I think it is just 90$ for X-rays from them.

[StormRichards]

I'm not sure what your point is on this particular story. An x-ray shouldn't be done until after at least a month of conservative treatment (medication, physical therapy, exercise, etc.). The only exception would be if there was trauma such as a fall or auto accident. So if the chiropractor wanted to treat you a few times first to see if you got better, that's exactly what the guidelines say should happen.

Well that is the opposite of what my first chiropractic experience was. I had a doctor take an x-ray so they could see what is going on that might be the source of my pain. Seems pretty idiotic to "adjust" someone's back that is complaining of severe pain without first taking an x-ray.

I have been given medication and sent to PT for other musculoskeletal issues over the years, and that course of treatment was perfectly fine in those cases. However, I think manipulating someones back without first seeing if there is an unseen issue is reckless.

[StormRichards]

I'm not a doctor, so I can't really argue this one way or the other. I just know what I've been told.

They don't have to Xray everytime. The point they make is you shouldn't be adjusting a person you don't know the history behind. An Xray reveals what is going on to be safe for everybody. I've heard of other chiropractors not x-raying, but apparently it is a taboo thing to do in that field. Knowing the people like I do I know they are not trying to make money off X-raying people. I think it is just 90$ for X-rays from them.

In my case, it was a first visit made because I was in severe pain with limited mobility. The young doctor had no medical records for me other than what I filled out upon arrival. Said he knew what the problem was from just seeing me stand, and that my poor posture was a contributing factor. If I were seeing him because of mild lower back pain, I would have been comfortable with that "blind" diagnosis. But I walked as if I was twice my age and had to sit or lay with very little movement.

A childhood friend of mine works for a chiropractor. Based on my description of the pain and lack of mobility, she said her boss would have taken an x-ray. I stand by my assessment that it was reckless to touch my back without it, and there is no convincing me otherwise.

[FLA]

That's not been my experience. Muscle, tendon and ligament injuries don't show up on an X-ray

[Captain Save]

I will never understand the thought process of conspiracy theorists.

When is the last time you heard of anyone coming down with polio or small pox? How about the last time anyone you know died of AIDS? Or hepatitis C? I'm willing to bet you know dozens of people who didn't die from the cancer they had. Just since 1960, the average life expectancy in the US has gone up from 69 to 78. I think the medical and pharmaceutical industries have an awful lot to do with that.

If you feel that your doctor has no interest in making you better, find yourself a better doctor. There are plenty of great ones out there, though I certainly won't deny that there are some lousy ones, too.

what exactly is the conpsiracy theory?

so this current system as it is set up shoudl not be questioned.. otherwise you're a conspiracy theorist .. or a voodoo priest? ,, WOW ... ..

[Captain Save]

Well, considering the pharmaceutical business is a multi billion dollar business, I highly doubt they really want to cure everything. Some things to show they are doing something, sure, but mostly just ease symptoms. This keeps them coming back for more meds, and the dr's are happy to get to write prescriptions which means a dr visit. Just my two cents from my end of the game. lol


.

The thing is we're questioning the system.. not necessarily the individuals.

let's say 100% of doctors right now were well intentioned and had our best interest in mind .. WE SHOULD STILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SYSTEM .. because if there is a lack of incentive to do the right thing .. the forces of human nature will eventually take over...

It's extremely concerning when the status quo is so entrenched in our society that we are not even allowed to question anything without being called a lunatic..or better yet a "conspiracy theorist"

[Captain Save]

You raise several good points.

However, it is certainly not true that pharma has no incentive for drugs that cure diseases. In fact, there are a countless number of drugs currently that do in fact cure diseases, and ten times that many that alleve symptoms and/or forestall disease advancement. So that conspiracy theory goes into the same bucket as man never landed on the moon.

Fee-for-service medicine has its problems, but medicine has no analogous profession. If a plumber doesn't fix your leak, he comes back free of charge. Unfortunately the human body doesn't work like a leak - a stomach problem for example can be caused by any of a hundred or more sources. It might be diagnosed at the first visit and successfully treated, or it might take two years of visits to a multitude of doctors, and finally a trip to Mayo Clinic when the patient is at death's door, before it is finally diagnosed (hint: personal experience).

Of course, this in no way points to physician incompetence nor malpractice, but rather to the sheer complexity of the human body. While fee-for-service seems sometimes a ripoff, we can't very well expect providers to accept payment only when they make us feel better.

As for chiropractic, I believe that there is little-to-no science behind it. It is modern day voodoo medicine. You see chiropractors peddling everything from Amazon tea to weight loss pills to transcendental meditation to popping your back to cure your cancer. Obviously, chiropractors are heavily incentivized to treat not only you, but "the whole family". I use the term "treatment" loosely since it's all really more akin to a magic act, complete with props and sound effects, mixed with a dose of medical gibberish. Showmanship makes for a profitable "practice".

The primary causes of runaway healthcare costs are:

1. Governmental tampering with the healthcare system (Medicare), including the implementation of arbitrary and artificially low provider reimbursements, resulting in the providers "cost shifting" to the rest of us to pay the bills.

2. Related to number 1, very little free market competition among hospitals, resulting in price gouging of sensational proportions. This is a direct result of the FTC allowing the hospitals in most communities to merge with one another, thereby creating a virtual monopoly by which they can quite literally charge what they want. Even the largest MSAs in the US have been reduced to two or three healthcare systems. That's not free market.

Finally, as a general rule, when the government begins tampering with the free market - housing, college, cash-for-clunkers, healthcare - the result is usually runaway inflation, because the government has imposed artificial pricing and/or rules that interrupt the free market and create market imbalances. Government tampering with free markets is a very dangerous thing, because it ultimately can lead to full-on government takeover to correct the crisis, when in fact the government was its author.

my point is that there is no incentive for the MD"s to figure out exactly where the "leak " came from .. and you're right .. although I do feel there needs to be some oversight when it comes to our health ..the govt sure does not have our best interest in mind as every new regulation makes matters worse ..

As far as chriopractors go ... the fundamentals are pretty logical.. it's really not magic. .. MD's are taught that your body is self regulation and self healing and the chiropractors believe that any damage to your nervous system prevents your body from performing at its highest level.. so at least in theory ..it's not a magic trick..that concept is not foreign to the medical world.. it's a pretty well accepted fact that the nervous system controls every aspect of your body .. . Chiropractors are taught to learn and manipulate the nervous system ..which is what I said in my 1st Post.. since MS is a disease of the nervous system.. you might want to pay a chiropractor a visit..

Now if I weren't clear enough .. there are plenty of bad chiropractors out there.. I live in a big city .. I had to research chiropractors all around me ..and I ended up with one who is 1 hour away.. that alone should tell you what I think about chiro's in general..

I have been seeing mine for about a month ..so far I have nothing to complain about but I still have chronic disease .. however I can tell you that in 4 months .. my UC should be a lot better than a month ago as long as I follow his instructions.. and if it's not .. he loses a client... so it's in his best interest do what he promised to do ... he's gonna hear about it .. he encourages people to yelp .and reviews can go both ways ..

I can also tell you that my girlfriend who has the utmost admiration for MD"s was skeptical about chiropractors and in less than a month she has nothing but great thing to say .. unlike me her issues were more about posture and she can feel that she's getting better with every adjustments.. Mind you she went in because of a back pain that no one could find the source of .. she had all types of test done at the hospital .. until I convinced her to go see my chiro.. the guy showed her what her symptoms were before she even pointed them out .. right then and there she became a believer... but that's just her story .. I'm waiting for mine ..

o and yes .. He takes X rays.. .before and after the treatment period is over..

[TexasHusker]

The thing is we're questioning the system.. not necessarily the individuals.

let's say 100% of doctors right now were well intentioned and had our best interest in mind .. WE SHOULD STILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SYSTEM .. because if there is a lack of incentive to do the right thing .. the forces of human nature will eventually take over...

It's extremely concerning when the status quo is so entrenched in our society that we are not even allowed to question anything without being called a lunatic..or better yet a "conspiracy theorist"

Question all you want, but when you infer that Big Pharma doesn't want to find cures, you're going to get some chuckles, because that is utter stupidity.

Same for claiming a chiropractor has superior knowledge of the nervous system to that of a neurologist. Do you know how little education chiros even get? A big part of that is that there is nothing to teach, and even less to learn! Research the annals of "Doctor" Palmer, the founder of chiropractic. He basically admits as much. It's a racket.

Here is a good read that exposes the whole thing:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism

[FLA]

I think spinal manipulation has its advantages, as I said it helps me with a chronic problem that had already been checked out in the past by an orthropod and a neurosurgeon. Now if my sciatica made my foot numb and I couldn't pee, you'd see me at the neurosurgeon's pronto. I don't think you can begin to compare a chiro to a neurosurgeon. But when simple spinal manipulation will do the trick, I see nothing wrong with that. You are responsible for monitoring your symptoms and at the very least choose the right specialist or see your primary and get a referral to the appropriate care giver from them.

when I first experienced sciatica, I had the month of conservative treatment disneysteve mentioned, meds, PT, avoiding sitting for long periods, etc. No one did an xray or MRI right away because the majority of back problems get better with conservative treatment in 4-6 weeks. When I was still having problems, I was worked up. My orthropod recommended my chiro in the end.