How to define "Poor"?

[HundredK]

Also, how do they define fraud in the SNAP program? I think it's fraud for someone to use their benefits to buy Coke and Hershey bars.

I disagree about this particular point. I don't think it's our place to require that they not get any junk food just because they're getting assistance. They get a certain number of dollars to spend on food, and it's their choice what type of food that is. Let them buy a hershey's bar if that's what they're really wanting. I don't care if welfare dollars go toward the purchase of junk food. I do think it's wrong if stores only emphasize junk food items as being eligible, and it really sucks that junk food is often so cheap and easy, but overall the concept does not bother me in the least.

When I was a kid, my parents often had to go to the food banks where they distributed the ****ty government food in the white containers (do they still do that?). Things like powdered milk and horrendous looking hunks of cheese, all sorts of sketchy looking stuff. That food was so horrible. But every now and then, maybe a couple times a year, a random person who knew we were in trouble would bring over a bag of groceries, and sometimes there would be a Hershey's bar in it. And let me tell you, that thing was like GOLD, it was like Christmas! So let them have their Hershey's.

[disneysteve]

I disagree about this particular point. I don't think it's our place to require that they not get any junk food just because they're getting assistance.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

I see no reason why we should be supporting bad behavior and self-destructive habits. Paying for people to eat junk food is just as bad as if we let them use their cards to buy cigarettes.

[HundredK]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Fair enough.

[cornfieldj]

I once had an older patient who had a very obviously cancerous growth on his ear. I kept urging him to get it taken care of. Finally he told me that he wasn't paying his $25 copay just for that. But he always had a breast pocket full of lottery tickets. I asked him how much he spent on tickets and he said $5/day. So he had no problem spending $35/week for that but wouldn't spend $25 once or twice to have cancer removed from his body. It's tough to know what to say at that point.

This is an example of what I meant when I said sometimes people are incapable of making a good decision.

[cornfieldj]

Many patients are also not the least bit shy about telling me that they work under the table when I ask them their occupation. They have jobs that pay cash so that it doesn't get reported which would result in them being ineligible for benefits which are income-based.

It is all of those types of things that get other people upset, rightfully so to an extent.

This points to a wall that a lot of people don't realize even exists, but it's there, and it keeps some people behind it all their lives. They're paid in cash and they often conduct their whole lives in cash. A job that paid a bit more would require a bank account, but they don't have a bank account. Instead, they're dependent on check-cashing stores that charge as much as 5% of the check's value. They are the unbanked (as financial services calls them), or the under-banked -- and it is a huge, structural flaw that can be very difficult to move past.

[FLA]

Being able to get coverage for the kids is of limited benefit since the kids are typically healthy. It is the adults who have the health problems like high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, etc. We need affordable universal coverage in this country.

100% agreed

[FLA]

I disagree about this particular point. I don't think it's our place to require that they not get any junk food just because they're getting assistance. They get a certain number of dollars to spend on food, and it's their choice what type of food that is. Let them buy a hershey's bar if that's what they're really wanting. I don't care if welfare dollars go toward the purchase of junk food. I do think it's wrong if stores only emphasize junk food items as being eligible, and it really sucks that junk food is often so cheap and easy, but overall the concept does not bother me in the least.

I agree with you. I think if they were only allowed to buy whole unprocessed foods there would be issues. Perhaps lack of knowledge on how to prepare meals from scratch, although SNAP offers classes in healthy eating. If they want to buy prepared meals, at least it's a meal. I feel like give the benefit and within guidelines like no alcohol or cigarettes, let the recipient choose what is best for their family. I kept thinking about the kids in those states that said things like cookies and steak no longer qualified. You're gonna question a package of cookies for some children? Come on. And if you've shopped wisely, used coupons and sales and have enough left to buy a steak occasionally, who the heck am I to judge?

[disneysteve]

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/wic-food-packages-regulatory-requirements-wic-eligible-foods

Here is the list of WIC-eligible foods. I see no reason why we couldn't do something similar with SNAP. I guess the question is what is the point of SNAP benefits? Is it to provide for basic nutritional needs or is it to give people free reign to eat and drink whatever they want?

[HundredK]

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/wic-food...eligible-foods

Here is the list of WIC-eligible foods. I see no reason why we couldn't do something similar with SNAP. I guess the question is what is the point of SNAP benefits? Is it to provide for basic nutritional needs or is it to give people free reign to eat and drink whatever they want?

Isn't WIC to try and ensure that expectant mothers get specific nutrition that babies need? Makes sense to me that those might be different?

[disneysteve]

Isn't WIC to try and ensure that expectant mothers get specific nutrition that babies need? Makes sense to me that those might be different?

Yes, it is focused on good nutrition. I'm just suggesting that SNAP should be, as well.

The vast majority of my patients, a great many of whom receive SNAP benefits, are obese, often severely so. What sense does it make for us as a society to be giving people the means to get themselves obese while we are also providing them with healthcare coverage so that they can be treated for their high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, cancer, strokes, arthritis, acid reflux, sleep apnea, and every other obesity-related disease they develop? We even then cover the costs of them getting bariatric surgery to address the obesity that we had a direct hand in creating. I see that cycle as the ultimate manifestation of insanity.

[FLA]

my problem is with agendas (no matter how good they are) being foisted upon one interest group, the poor, when the rest of the country is free to eat what they want. I think nutrition and cooking classes by SNAP are a good idea but I draw the line at regulating ALL of the food participants are "allowed" to eat. Maybe there could be incentives for choosing healthy foods or taking the classes or things like that. I just hate the disenfranchising of one group. lost your job? you just ate your last bag of chips.

[StormRichards]

my problem is with agendas (no matter how good they are) being foisted upon one interest group, the poor, when the rest of the country is free to eat what they want. I think nutrition and cooking classes by SNAP are a good idea but I draw the line at regulating ALL of the food participants are "allowed" to eat. Maybe there could be incentives for choosing healthy foods or taking the classes or things like that. I just hate the disenfranchising of one group. lost your job? you just ate your last bag of chips.

In theory, I like your idea.

However, my employer incorporated programs several years ago to encourage people to make healthier choices. One of the benefits of the program was that it was also supposed to reduce our healthcare premiums. Healthier employees, lower premiums. Either the programs aren't working or the company is not passing on the savings. My premium has gone up every year since the program was launched.

[FLA]

yeah, that happened where I worked too. Prices went up and we had divulged a lot of private info about ourselves to God knows who

[TexasHusker]

Poor is hating what you have and desiring that which you do not have.

[StormRichards]

yeah, that happened where I worked too. Prices went up and we had divulged a lot of private info about ourselves to God knows who

Yep. But according to my employer, they only receive aggregate information supplied by employees. Just frustrating that we have yet to see any benefit to supplying that information.