Your Viewpoint On Dave Ramsey

[Petunia 100]

Have you ever worked with people who know nothing about finances or investing and are struggling? I have, and I understand why he does this. People who are in a mess need simple. What people are missing is that because of him people get started into financial freedom. They hear his radio show or get given his book. He may not be your cup of tea, but to someone who is dying of thirst a cup of almost anything is life saving.

"Open a Target Retirement Fund at Vanguard" is simple. Can you explain why you feel it is not simple?

Pick up phone. Dial. State "Hello Vanguard. I would like to open a Target Retirement Fund".

[bjl584]

This issue has come up countless times.

I think that he has helped a lot of people, and people that are in dire straights would definitely benefit from his simple advice. But, as people become more advanced with finances, their need or desire to listen to his advice starts to dwindle.

A friend of mine, who is a financial hot mess, could learn a lot from Dave Ramsey.

My stepdad, who is a self made millionaire, has no reason to pay any attention at all to Dave Ramsey. He would be better served listening to Bill Gross.

[GoodSteward]

"Open a Target Retirement Fund at Vanguard" is simple. Can you explain why you feel it is not simple?

Pick up phone. Dial. State "Hello Vanguard. I would like to open a Target Retirement Fund".

People won't do it. You have to hold their hand getting started. Seriously....

[Petunia 100]

People won't do it. You have to hold their hand getting started. Seriously....

So calling an ELP is easy, but calling Vanguard is far too complicated.

Sorry, that's nonsense. If Dave Ramsey said "call Vanguard", his audience would call Vanguard.

[Eagle]

I think he is a marketing genius. I think his Baby Steps are a good solid plan, as long as you completely ignore his investing advice beyond "invest 15% of your income".

However, I think it is very obvious he puts his own financial interests ahead of his audience. He advises load funds, pushes people to "ELPs", while charging ELPs fees to be on his ELP list. If that isn't a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

Also, I did watch a few of his radio shows earlier this year. (You can watch them online). He comes across to me as very egotistical. He has made some rather shocking statements about debt collectors. And the stunt he pulled with Brian Stoffel shows what an underhanded, dishonest person he is, in my opinion.

Edit: Those Baby Steps by the way are a total rip-off from Crown Financial Ministries. Ramsey did simplify them and package them much better than Larry Burkett ever did.

Marketing genius I would agree with. And by telling people they have to give 10% to their local church he gets church leadership on board...

[TexasHusker]

Marketing genius I would agree with. And by telling people they have to give 10% to their local church he gets church leadership on board...

Good point - if only it was true. I've never heard Dave Ramsey proclaim that anyone "has to give 10% to their local church."

If you're going to knock the guy, at least get your own facts straight.

[cashisking500]

Dave Ramsey is good for the masses. You can use his advice for free...it costs you nothing. If you're swimming in debt, Dave can steer you in the right direction. If you're clueless about personal finance, Dave can help.

I do think his investment advice is sometimes bogus. 12% returns over the long haul are difficult to achieve, but this is the number he works off of.

I also do not agree with his credit card advice. IF a person can use them responsibly, there are (small) benefits to be had. The problem is that 90% of people can't use them responsibly, so it makes sense that he would tell people not to use them.

[disneysteve]

I also do not agree with his credit card advice. IF a person can use them responsibly

The people that he is talking to can't use them responsibly. That's usually what has gotten them into the mess they're in.

I personally think credit cards are an awesome tool and you should take full advantage of them, but I'm not DR's target audience.

[Eagle]

Good point - if only it was true. I've never heard Dave Ramsey proclaim that anyone "has to give 10% to their local church."

If you're going to knock the guy, at least get your own facts straight.

TexasHusker, I'm very familiar with Dave's teachings. My facts are straight. Dave's teachings are very appealing to pretty much anyone in church leadership. Particularly among evangelical Christians. What does it mean to you to teach tithing as a Scriptural (Biblical) mandate (an official order to do something)?

Here's an example from Dave's website: http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/daves...ing-and-giving

Is it acceptable to pause tithing in tough financial times?

The Bible does not mention anything about "pausing" tithing. Neither does it say that we will go to Hell if we do not tithe.

The tithe, which is a scriptural mandate, was not instituted for God's benefit because He already has all the money He needs. He does not need our money.

So why does He ask us to give 10% to Him? Tithing was created for our benefit. It is to teach us how to keep God first in our lives and how to be unselfish people. Unselfish people make better husbands, wives, friends, relatives, employees and employers. God is trying to teach us how to prosper over time.

[TexasHusker]

TexasHusker, I'm very familiar with Dave's teachings. My facts are straight. Dave's teachings are very appealing to pretty much anyone in church leadership. Particularly among evangelical Christians. What does it mean to you to teach tithing as a Scriptural (Biblical) mandate (an official order to do something)?

Here's an example from Dave's website: http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/daves...ing-and-giving

Quite a big difference between making a case for tithing versus says by someone "has to", don't you think?

[Eagle]

Quite a big difference between making a case for tithing versus says by someone "has to", don't you think?

A Scriptural mandate is pretty cut and dry. It's a command. Not an option. Dave teaches if you are obeying the Bible you give 10% off the top.

There's a difference between making a case for and telling someone "God says"... One is a personal conviction or preference. The other is a universal, Biblical truth?

I think "has to" is semantics don't let it distract from the assertion that Dave's teachings appeal to church leadership.. Surely you don't disagree his teachings (particularly on tithing/giving) are appealing to church leaders?

For example:

http://www.daveramsey.com/show/videos/wife-and-i-disagree-on-tithing

[GoodSteward]

Lol, here is that tithing thing again. Everybody just pay tithes and then you won't have to worry about if you should or shouldn't be.

So calling an ELP is easy, but calling Vanguard is far too complicated.

Sorry, that's nonsense. If Dave Ramsey said "call Vanguard", his audience would call Vanguard.

lol You are missing a lot of this. If you have worked with people you would realize there is more to this than just starting an account. People are bad to freak out when the market drops and they pull their money out because they think they are going bust. An ELP, or middle man, can help explain to them to leave it alone and ride the wave unless it seems to actually be bottoming out. Someone with experience should be helping most people. If you are not licensed with a securities license you can't give investing advice, so the people over the phone are not allowed to tell you what to do. They only do what people tell them.

Until you have worked with people, you don't realize how much help they really need. Dave Ramsey isn't stupid.

[phantom]

In general, I like Dave Ramsey. I find his radio show entertaining in small doses, and I think his advice can help people make drastic improvements in their financial lives. I think there is a lot of value in the simplicity and consistency in his advice. I like that it's pretty easy to figure out what he would advise in most situations and what he would advise is usually not a bad idea, even if not optimal.

The part I don't care for is that he doesn't respect opinions that are different than his own, and there are very few situations where he'll call the thing he wouldn't do anything other than a huge mistake. He stresses the importance financial advisors "with the heart of a teacher," but he thinks teachers should teach people to think the way he does rather than to think for themselves. I would like him much better if he called his advice a good path towards success rather than the only path to success.

Lately, the thing that rubs me the wrong way lately is the "Ramsey Personalities." I think it makes sense for Dave Ramsey to be building a brand that is bigger than him and can keep going if he ever gets to the point where he can't keep adding content. But, the group he has gathered that all somehow have the exact same opinions as him feels very fake, like a bunch of puppets. It's weird how he now brings in his "investing expert" to give people the exact same advice that he's been giving people on investing for years.

[disneysteve]

I find his radio show entertaining in small doses, and I think his advice can help people make drastic improvements in their financial lives. I think there is a lot of value in the simplicity and consistency in his advice. I like that it's pretty easy to figure out what he would advise in most situations and what he would advise is usually not a bad idea, even if not optimal.

I think this is well-stated.

[Petunia 100]

Lately, the thing that rubs me the wrong way lately is the "Ramsey Personalities." I think it makes sense for Dave Ramsey to be building a brand that is bigger than him and can keep going if he ever gets to the point where he can't keep adding content. But, the group he has gathered that all somehow have the exact same opinions as him feels very fake, like a bunch of puppets. It's weird how he now brings in his "investing expert" to give people the exact same advice that he's been giving people on investing for years.

Do you mean Chris Hogan, or someone else? When I watched DR's radio show a few times earlier this year, he was on and they were pushing his new book. So, I picked it up at the library and gave it a read. It was a very quick read because it was all fluff. Basically, just motivation to go ahead and save for retirement. He told a story about an elderly woman who was eating canned dog food because she hadn't saved for retirement. It is obviously a completely fabricated story. I can't believe anyone would take that story seriously.