Apps for caretaking, aging, managing death - anyone use them?

[HundredK]

Since my dad died a few weeks back, I've been going through a lot trying to get all of his and my mom's financial affairs in order, and I've been thinking a lot about how to prevent chaos at the time of my own death, and also how to best share information with my mom from afar as she ages and is in need of a greater level of care. Seems like this is an up and coming market, and there are two apps I've run into this last week that I am considering using.

One is called Everplans which has been around a few years (and there's a corresponding book that just came out that I happened to borrow from the library). For $75 a year, they'll store all of your death planning information in what seems an incredibly secure way, and then you can assign 'deputies' who can get access at a time of your choosing (either now or after you die) so they can easily run your life if you become incapacitated or wrap up your affairs if you die.

Another is called Likepaper, it was just released last week, and that one seems more focused maybe on caregiving, but also has a place to store wills and whatnot. In this app, you assign caregivers who can help you manage things like your appointments, meds you're taking, to-do lists, calendars, etc. I need to reach out to them and get a better sense of how good their security protocols are. I'm also unclear as to their price - being brand new they might still be working that out.

Just wondering if anyone else uses these, and/or if you have suggestions of anything similar? I want something super secure (for example, with zero knowledge encryption) because I get paranoid about stuff like that, so just popping it all into dropbox and sharing my folder with mom isn't going to be the answer for me. I do already use encryption for my own purposes, but find it such a struggle when trying to share encrypted files with mom.

I basically just want a very secure way to share sensitive documents electronically as a consumer.

Open to input and ideas on any of the above topics!

[kork13]

One caveat I'd warn you about is that when it comes to death related legal paperwork, hard copies rule. Hard copies of wills, POA, etc. present fewer problems with security (not at risk to hacking, etc.), contest (argument over what are the most current/valid documents), version control (don't want numerous old versions of in the world), and in some cases, legal validity (some states don't consider digitized notary documents as valid). The lawyers that have prepared our death documents always tell us to never digitize them, and to limit copies made to the absolute minimum (zero if possible), and to destroy expired/rescinded documents immediately.

I understand the ease that such digital services may provide, but I personally would not store any documents with them (caveat: healthcare POA & living will -- my doctors always keep digital copies of those).

[disneysteve]

Since my dad died a few weeks back, I've been going through a lot trying to get all of his and my mom's financial affairs in order, and I've been thinking a lot about how to prevent chaos at the time of my own death, and also how to best share information with my mom from afar as she ages and is in need of a greater level of care.

I would suggest making sure everyone involved has copies of any necessary documents now, while you are alive and fully functioning. Make sure they know your wishes should you become incapacitated or die.

I have copies of my mother's will, living will, and full knowledge of all of her financial affairs. I have the same for my cousin as I'm his POA and executor.

The problems arise when people, for whatever reason, want to be secretive until it's too late to get answers from them. I know every account my mom has. I know every account my cousin has. I've been in contact with his financial advisor so that we're already acquainted when the time comes that I need to take over everything. All of the planning is already done so that there isn't chaos when either of them die.

As for helping to manage your mom's care from a distance, does she have you named as power of attorney and the one responsible for medical decisions when she's unable to do it herself?

[HundredK]

Right, I definitely wouldn't make a digital copy of anything notarized my only copy. I would however argue that physical copies are more prone to hacking (as in theft, the wrong people getting access, etc. It's all right there for the taking.). If you do electronic copies right with zero knowledge encryption and high level security, it should be incredibly hard for anyone else to access it, way harder than waltzing into your house and breaking into your file cabinet. That's one reason I won't use companies like Dropbox for my file storage - though they say they have great security, it is not zero knowledge encryption and their staff could theoretically access your files (not to mention that they already had a massive breach some years back). However, with ZKE, you do run the risk of losing access forever if you lose your encryption key. But I am comfortable with that and use ZKE for all my backups. I'm generally a big fan of scanning and shredding. I don't even keep physical copies of my tax returns. I don't even own a filing cabinet, I'd have nothing to put in it that isn't already in our small safe. It's the sharing of and modifying of encrypted files thing that has me a bit stumped as I keep bumping into issues when I share/modify of multiple versions getting created which does not happen when I don't share. Everplans claims to handle this flawlessly. I really just want to create a secure electronic guide of mom's life (and maybe mine too that someone else can access at some point) so it makes things easier when we all pass away. I don't live anywhere near her, so physical access is just not a thing that can be easily managed.

[HundredK]

As for helping to manage your mom's care from a distance, does she have you named as power of attorney and the one responsible for medical decisions when she's unable to do it herself?

Not yet, it's on my to-do list. We're still digging out of the muck that my dad left behind and it is a huge chore. He was secretive and awful about everything, so I am getting the worst-case experience at the moment. I'm going to talk to her soon about POA but she is in a pretty bad state and I want to be gentle about it.

[disneysteve]

I would however argue that physical copies are more prone to hacking (as in theft, the wrong people getting access, etc. It's all right there for the taking.).

The only people who could do that are ones with access. My mom's will is in a lock box in our house. Who is going to happen to break in and steal that. And her attorney has a copy anyway so I'm not sure what anybody could accomplish with a copy.

Maybe I'm wrong but you might be overthinking this. The key is being totally open with everyone involved, not secretive. Personally, our daughter knows where our will and other important papers are. Our attorney has copies as well. There is a master list of every financial account with account numbers and user ids and passwords for online access in a secure location that my wife can refer to if I die before her. I update it every year or so or if anything changes.

My mom lives nearby but my cousin is over 1,000 miles away but I just can't think of anything I'd need stored electronically for any reason.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Most people bury their heads in the sand like ostriches when it comes to this sort of things. The apps sounds very good which I'll be looking into for myself. Being a single guy 55 with no kids, I prepared a living revocable trust, will, LTC insurance, caregiver custodian, etc.

[HundredK]

The only people who could do that are ones with access. My mom's will is in a lock box in our house. Who is going to happen to break in and steal that. And her attorney has a copy anyway so I'm not sure what anybody could accomplish with a copy.

Maybe I'm wrong but you might be overthinking this. The key is being totally open with everyone involved, not secretive. Personally, our daughter knows where our will and other important papers are. Our attorney has copies as well. There is a master list of every financial account with account numbers and user ids and passwords for online access in a secure location that my wife can refer to if I die before her. I update it every year or so or if anything changes.

My mom lives nearby but my cousin is over 1,000 miles away but I just can't think of anything I'd need stored electronically for any reason.

You're not wrong, I make it a point to overthink everything related to digital security. I think people do not worry enough about that. Giving copies to lawyers is a great idea, but lawyers are a thing that poor folks do not tend to have easy access to. For passwords, we use a password app and make sure every password is unique and at least 16 random characters long for the things that matter. And I change them frequently. So it's not really about trying to keep certain people out, it's about only letting the right people in and definitely keeping everyone else out. And it's about making it simple to find things when someone dies no matter where you are and no matter if the physical copies still exist. That's my thinking anyway. :-)

[ua_guy]

You're not wrong, I make it a point to overthink everything related to digital security. I think people do not worry enough about that. Giving copies to lawyers is a great idea, but lawyers are a thing that poor folks do not tend to have easy access to. For passwords, we use a password app and make sure every password is unique and at least 16 random characters long for the things that matter. And I change them frequently. So it's not really about trying to keep certain people out, it's about only letting the right people in and definitely keeping everyone else out. And it's about making it simple to find things when someone dies no matter where you are and no matter if the physical copies still exist. That's my thinking anyway. :-)

Doesn't matter how good password or encryption, if you're putting it on some else's server, into an app, into the cloud, etc, you're making it something to steal, and you're losing some control over it in the process. You're also relying on an app provider to be around or have the records available when you need them, for them to continue supporting the app or service in the future, etc. Not worth it, IMHO, other than for maybe managing appointments and some of the cursory stuff you talked about.

If you want to *also* digitize the records, that's fine. A more secure way to do that and keep them would be to put those digitized images on a physical, encrypted backup drive with password or lock protection, and store them in a secure physical location. Think like a safe, safety deposit box, etc. Then your records are digitized, but offline to an internet world that is hungry for personal identity data. Provide the location and unlock combination to those who need to have it. Roll the combination/password periodically and update those you have selected to know.

I'm a physical records guy who likes to keep things like that under lock and key, and that's because I'm an internet and software guy for work. Everyone has the potential to lose your data in a breach.

[HundredK]

Doesn't matter how good password or encryption, if you're putting it on some else's server, into an app, into the cloud, etc, you're making it something to steal, and you're losing some control over it in the process. You're also relying on an app provider to be around or have the records available when you need them, for them to continue supporting the app or service in the future, etc. Not worth it, IMHO, other than for maybe managing appointments and some of the cursory stuff you talked about.

If you want to *also* digitize the records, that's fine. A more secure way to do that and keep them would be to put those digitized images on a physical, encrypted backup drive with password or lock protection, and store them in a secure physical location. Think like a safe, safety deposit box, etc. Then your records are digitized, but offline to an internet world that is hungry for personal identity data. Provide the location and unlock combination to those who need to have it. Roll the combination/password periodically and update those you have selected to know.

I'm a physical records guy who likes to keep things like that under lock and key, and that's because I'm an internet and software guy for work. Everyone has the potential to lose your data in a breach.

I do keep an encrypted backup on a biometric ssd drive. I also keep encrypted files on my hard drive as well as in the cloud. With zero knowledge encryption, I'm not handing over control to anyone without a huge fight - i am the only one who knows what the encryption key is. So sure, they could perhaps get the encrypted file but it would be a THING for them to unencrypt it. I also password backup any important file, just to make it an even bigger pain to access. My theory is don't be the low hanging fruit, and it's very likely the hacker will just move onto the next sucker who didn't worry about it. That's the problem with services like dropbox, you don't even have the encryption key - dropbox handles all that themselves which in my opinion leaves gaping holes where you might as well just publish it all publicly. That's not good and I'd never trust anything important to a service like that. It's true that services come and go, but it's unlikely that all of my backups would fail simultaneously, and even if a company decides to shut down, they'll give you the opportunity to retrieve your encrypted files first (or, you know, i have them all here locally too, so no huge thing). Redundancy is key. Which is actually one reason I hate physical copies - someone steals that and it's gone forever. Your house burns down and it's gone forever (and I live in an area where a whole lot of homes have burnt to the ground in recent years). I feel offsite storage of these things is a no-brainer. Physical copies are also something people get super lax about keeping updated whereas for me, keeping electronic files current is ultra easy.

I am re-thinking signing up with something like Everplans though. Even though it would be a lot easier to have that and to have a nice place with a clean user interface that mom could access, I am still just a bit uncomfortable with it, and kind of have a hard time justifying the $75 a year. I have sent some questions to Everplans regarding their security protocols and we'll see what they say. But I think probably what I'll do is create my own encrypted version of all of the same information and then see if I can't teach mom how to access it.

I have had lots of tech startup clients, so I feel you on the 'software guy who likes physical records' thing. I've been asking lots of my tech friends about this and the responses I get range all the way from doing even way heavier encryption protocols than I already do, to folks who shrug and put it on dropbox because they're lazy even though they know it's not at all secure, to those who have responses much like yours.