Facebook ATTACKS Apple, for protecting their customer's data privacy... Thoughts?

[amarowsky]

A friend shared an interesting article from "the Verge". Apparently Facebook has deployed some Add's that are accusing Apple of harming "small businesses" because of Apple's commitment to data privacy for their customers.

Article is from The Verge, here is link ----> https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/16/...rivacy-changes

Curious on what you guys think these days. In the past, I've gotten the feeling that a lot of people here are not that concerned with their privacy and which companies receive their data. Usually folks on here say, "i have nothing to hide". I understand that logic and posturing with this statement. I don't think having a clean data history, is a good enough reason to let companies catalogue and strategize with each of my purchases. But for many here that seems to be acceptable cost to have more advertisements of things they like, directed to them.

What is everyone's general stand on this? Apple is clearly ok with Near-slave labor like conditions for manufacturing. But they respect their customers privacy. This is clearly against the grain for Facebook, Google, and Amazon. Facebook showed their hand quite plainly, by attacking Apple for preserving privacy.

Just thought this would be a good article for us to discuss, if interested. I wouldn't mind getting the latest climate, and how much people care for their digital & financial privacy. It's a pretty proactive one, so there may be good dialogue. Personally, I'd like to better understand the mindset of people who "want/do not care, to share their data, to get more targeted adds".

[disneysteve]

Anybody who is truly concerned about online privacy simply shouldn't be online.

I don't care if I get "targeted" ads or not targeted ads. I ignore them all equally. I've never clicked on an ad except by accident.

But I totally understand the concept that if the service or website or app I'm using is free, then I am the product. I am what is being sold.

Many of the big tech companies like Facebook and Google aren't in the social media business or online search business. They are in the data harvesting and advertising businesses. That's where they make their money. I'm okay with that. I figure it's a win-win. I get to use all of these incredible tools for free. They get info that they feel is valuable about where I like to shop or what types of activities I like to participate in or which political party I affiliate with.

[james.hendrickson]

Very interesting posting.

This is coming in the context of google being sued for anti-trust violations. In summary, at least states are suing google, accusing them of violating anti-trust laws to their on-line advertising practice (here). At first review, the allegations are very serious, and frankly appear well researched and substantiated. While its not strictly in the lawsuit, it may also be the case that Google's monopoly power, and subsequent fleecing of advertising revenue has had a significant and negative impact on the news and entertainment industries.

The issue are complicated, but here is a very good thread on twitter by a guy named Jason Kint on this.



Here is the full thread. Its heavy stuff, but it doesn't look good for Google.

[HundredK]

This is why I use a pihole to block unwanted spying network traffic, and I use ublock origin to catch anything that makes its way through the pihole. I see no ads at all. Probably a pihole isn't for everyone since it takes some know-how, but ublock origin is a simple thing anyone can install. And they don't let advertisers pay them to let their ads through anyway.

As far as privacy goes, I think that ship has sailed. I personally am very concerned about it, but the masses have spoken. They'd rather trade their privacy for free services like facebook. And Apple's no better. None of them are. At this point, we ARE the product these companies actually make money off of. So my whole take on it is to not be the low lying fruit. Do what I can to block what I can, and hope if bad **** goes down, it'll happen first to the people who really don't care. Kind of like how when you're traveling, you just need to take basic precautions so other people get pickpocketed first.

[HundredK]

A side note, when we monitored our network traffic closely, we were shocked to see that things like our Roku were uploading tons and tons of data, even when it's supposed to be off. The internet of things is bad news for sure. The Nest thermometers, the Ring cameras, the Alexa devices. All that stuff is meant to spy.

[ua_guy]

I'm moving towards getting rid of Facebook completely, going back to the old way of keeping in touch with people - or not. Seeing the lives of people I worked with 15 years ago, or random people I barely knew in High School has really limited appeal these days. The rest is political bickering, and advertising. I can keep in touch with family in many better ways.

I can appreciate in general what Apple does to protect its customers privacy. They've refused to assist the US government multiple times to unlock/decrypt user's iPhones. Some good information here. I can also appreciate that they're telling Zuck to go eat a ****. I've never bought a product or service from Facebook ad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI–Apple_encryption_dispute

[bjl584]

There is no privacy online.
Watch the Social Dilemma on Netflix if you get a chance.
It's almost terrifying how the algorithms behind the scenes can track you, follow you, and can draw you to a way of thinking and believing.

[disneysteve]

Watch the Social Dilemma on Netflix if you get a chance.

I second this. Great show.

[QuarterMillionMan]

I rather have ads in stuff I'm interested about (ie, surf wear, computers, tools, etc) than things I don't care about (ie, jewelry, lip stick, coats, etc).

[disneysteve]

I rather have ads in stuff I'm interested about (ie, surf wear, computers, tools, etc) than things I don't care about (ie, jewelry, lip stick, coats, etc).

So do you actually pay attention to the ads? Have you ever bought anything as a result of an ad you've seen online?

About the only time I can think of that I've actually done anything based on an ad is that when playing a game on my phone, I've sometimes discovered other games through ads that I've also downloaded and played. Of course, none of that cost me a penny since they're all free (ad supported).

[QuarterMillionMan]

I can't recall precisely but never have made an impulse purchase but did click the ad which gave me another idea where to look.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Now on fb, I see ads for Tiffany & Co which was the furthest thing on my mind being a single guy but since I mentioned jewelry above, hello I'm getting ads now (lol).

[amarowsky]

I have some worries....

To be honest, if you are participating in society, there is implied information you are offering up to public. If you think about it, if you ever buy something in person, there is often a witness, other than the clerk, in most typical retail transactions. So we can not make the assertion, that we are entitled to absolute privacy, by substituting online<---> in-person purchases. It's just un-reasonable, when there are many perfect witnesses artificially (data tracking apps) that catch everything.

To use a metaphor, it's as if you went into a typical retail 7-11, hardware store, clothing store, etc....

Online purchase Reality =, it's like there is a "medium sized" crowd following you around. This crowd observing, documenting, and noting everything you look at in the store, how long you look, what you spend on, how much you spend, and what method of payment. This group doesn't forget anything, and always uses their notes though... (Very, non-human).

In-person purchase reality = someone will have seen at bit of this, as a typical bystander in public. And there is a chance you went un-noticed with your "in-person" purchase, admits the real world. But you still were sharing information publicly. Unless you're of public fame, it's likely your information will fall on deaf ears, when announced publically. (how you pay, what you buy, time, qty, sale vs full price, etc...). <---- most of these "notes" are never taken, or likely not followed up on. (Very-Human).

But online purchases, through data surveilling companies/apps = .... You are assuring that everything you are doing is being well documented, and there is no chance that your participation in that transaction, will not be a variable used to try as hard as legally possible, to extract a bit more of your time and disposable income.

We have always been watched, just never this thoroughly. So we are used to it. I think the human urge to be informed is the small level, of simmering FOMO that keeps most from deleting their social medias. They are insanely useful and convenient. It seems were ultimately victim to our own laziness and FOMO.

Going Forward - My speculation:
This is one area I think we should all be very aware of. Not necessarily jettison all this very convenient & useful technology. But maybe take a chance to strongly consider, which direction this tech evolution is going. And hopefully, our consumption patterns will steer it's course in a more "trustworthy and authentic" direction, rather than a "Absorb as much attention as possible, to ensure as much profits as possible". <---- seems like we have the capacity to do a LOT better. And just because it's "not harming me right now", doesn't mean this tech, that surrounds us completely, could not be pivoted to be used against us by a benevolent wielder of the technology one day (instead of just targeting our attention & money).

It'll cost us more, but I think ultimately, it's better for us... It's very costly Not trusting the honesty of companies and apps you use every day. Can't be good for our mental health either. I hope that Cheap consumption & Throw-A-Way Culture, is replaced soon with more thoughtful manufacturing, and less waste (higher qual over cheap & plentiful quantity). <-- again, not as profitable, but much more satisfying for all involved.

[JBinKC]

If you want a semblance of more privacy don't register and use Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. Always use a VPN service and/or a Tor browser and Protonmail for emails.

[amarowsky]

If you want a semblance of more privacy don't register and use Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. Always use a VPN service and/or a Tor browser and Protonmail for emails.

Ty for recommending Protonmail. I have been looking for a new email provider, and this may be just what I was looking for!

Unfortunately Gmail has not improved in EONS it seems.... I feel like it used to be simple, efficient and great, but has lost its luster long ago. (and it's organization features are abysmal w/o a bunch of extensions).