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Does college shape your world view or vice versa?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Jluke View Post
    Does emotional intelligence factor in here at all?
    Can you explain what you mean by that?
    Steve

    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

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      #17
      Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
      How about the other side of the question? Do you think this is generally true?

      I had friends in college whose parents forbade them from taking certain classes that taught things contrary to their personal beliefs. So even though they were allowed to attend college, their parents only did so with the understanding that they couldn't engage in studies that might threaten their world view and expose them to broader ideas, which kind of defeats the point of going to college to some extent. I suspect if those parents could have prevented them from going to college entirely, they would have.
      I'm taking the other side of the question to be, "do conservative families and individuals generally not seek higher education?"

      In my experience I do see a divide, but it's not so much an anti-liberal sentiment as it is an issue of economics and/or practicality, and that goes for a huge sect of otherwise liberal families as well-- sometimes going to school or affording school just isn't in the cards. But seeing as how most people can get financial aid, and those who perform, can secure scholarships or grants, I think it's decidedly a conservative-fueled viewpoint that going into debt for college is a poor choice. On face value, it's very easy to agree. Go $100k into debt for a nonspecific degree and job opportunities upon graduation include asking if the customer would like fries with that meal. Or, jump into a trade right after high school, start making $50k/year, get certifications, and be the guy at 22 years old driving a brand new pickup truck, living on his own, has money to party, and he laughs in bi-weekly paychecks at his friends in college.

      Those are two very stark examples, but I think I conveyed the idea.

      I agree to your other point, DS, I knew a few people in college that took challenges to their faith and their assumptions as an affront. Even in high school... there was a "world religion" course during junior year (public school) that required permission slips from parents to attend. There were a few parents who did NOT want their children to learn about world religions. Same with sex education - definitely a few kids who were pulled out of that every year because their parents disagreed. It was always the highly conservative, specifically-Christian parents who objected.

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        #18
        Originally posted by ua_guy View Post

        In my experience I do see a divide, but it's not so much an anti-liberal sentiment as it is an issue of economics and/or practicality, and that goes for a huge sect of otherwise liberal families as well-- sometimes going to school or affording school just isn't in the cards. But seeing as how most people can get financial aid, and those who perform, can secure scholarships or grants, I think it's decidedly a conservative-fueled viewpoint that going into debt for college is a poor choice.
        I will always push back against people who say this, though. There are easy enough ways to get a college education without spending a ton of money or racking up a ridiculous amount of debt. Community colleges are everywhere (I think). Whether you start there and finish elsewhere or do the whole program there, they are super affordable.

        I just looked up our local community college. If you take 15 credits/semester, you're looking at about $4,000/year, maybe closer to $5,000 with books and supplies and stuff. That should be affordable to nearly everyone. If the parents truly can't afford it, there is likely aid available and it's quite reasonable for a student to earn 5K/year from a part time job. Heck in my state, there is a program to get free CC for families earning up to $65,000. So cost alone should never be used as justification for not attending college.

        I agree to your other point, DS, I knew a few people in college that took challenges to their faith and their assumptions as an affront. Even in high school... there was a "world religion" course during junior year (public school) that required permission slips from parents to attend. There were a few parents who did NOT want their children to learn about world religions.
        I will never understand that. If having your child simply learn about other religions somehow threatens your own faith, there's a serious problem with your faith. I think our world would be in far better shape if everyone everywhere had a mandatory world religions class as part of their education.
        Steve

        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

        Comment


          #19
          College is undoubtedly one of many formative periods/experiences for many people. But most applicable, I think, is the more broad statement of "you become who you associate with." My worldview and opinions have changed/expanded/adjusted repeatedly throughout my life, and I can readily point to the specific individuals & groups with whom I spent my time with that resulted in those perceptible changes to how I perceive & interact with the world. Some of that was in high school, in college, after college in my job, after getting married, and so on. People are constantly changing -- I find it laughable when a politician is shamed for having accepted a modified viewpoint over time. The only people whose viewpoints are static tend to be extremists. As for the people I actually want to be around, a willingness to learn about, consciously accept/reject, and incorporate differing viewpoints indicates maturity & critical thought -- regardless of what political, social, or economic slant that might entail.
          "Praestantia per minutus" ... "Acta non verba"

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
            I will always push back against people who say this, though. There are easy enough ways to get a college education without spending a ton of money or racking up a ridiculous amount of debt. Community colleges are everywhere (I think). Whether you start there and finish elsewhere or do the whole program there, they are super affordable.

            I just looked up our local community college. If you take 15 credits/semester, you're looking at about $4,000/year, maybe closer to $5,000 with books and supplies and stuff. That should be affordable to nearly everyone. If the parents truly can't afford it, there is likely aid available and it's quite reasonable for a student to earn 5K/year from a part time job. Heck in my state, there is a program to get free CC for families earning up to $65,000. So cost alone should never be used as justification for not attending college.
            I absolutely agree. Where there's a will, there's a way. I think some struggle with the opportunity costs, when things are hand-to-mouth. Time spent in school is time not spent working. School may cause a need to find daycare (not uncommon). If one doesn't do well in school, nor do they enjoy it, time spent in school after graduating 12th grade is time not hunting/fishing/partying/dating, etc. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence in my own genetic families of this-- the ones who pressed on to better themselves, and the ones who didn't. The political split is exactly as you'd imagine.

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              #21
              Originally posted by ua_guy View Post

              I absolutely agree. Where there's a will, there's a way. I think some struggle with the opportunity costs, when things are hand-to-mouth. Time spent in school is time not spent working. School may cause a need to find daycare (not uncommon).
              Absolutely. I in no way meant to say everyone is able to go to college, especially full time. I was just making the point that cost alone really shouldn't be an issue. Certainly there are people who can't afford to go to college not because of the price of tuition but because they need to be out earning a living to support themselves and their families.
              Steve

              * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
              * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
              * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by kork13 View Post
                People are constantly changing -- I find it laughable when a politician is shamed for having accepted a modified viewpoint over time. The only people whose viewpoints are static tend to be extremists.
                I just made that very same point earlier today on a Facebook thread about COVID precautions and face masks. Yes, the official advice has changed. Why? Because more information and data and research became available. Changing your mind as new information becomes available is called learning and growth and adaptation. That's what we're all supposed to do in life. And yet there are millions of people out there still refusing to wear a mask because at the beginning of the pandemic, when very little was known about the virus, officials said it wasn't necessary.
                Steve

                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                  I just made that very same point earlier today on a Facebook thread about COVID precautions and face masks. Yes, the official advice has changed. Why? Because more information and data and research became available. Changing your mind as new information becomes available is called learning and growth and adaptation. That's what we're all supposed to do in life. And yet there are millions of people out there still refusing to wear a mask because at the beginning of the pandemic, when very little was known about the virus, officials said it wasn't necessary.
                  A very narrow reading of what I said, painted with an awfully big brush... But to your specific point, I would argue that the vast majority of folks refusing to wear masks are not in any way extremists unwilling to change their mindset. Some of them, I'm sure, are dogmatic folks unwilling to listen to reason. Rather, I think that the refusal is a result of distrust -- distrust in national-level leaders & experts, the news media, the international scientific community, and a variety of other factors. Dismissing them as extremists, or uneducated, or even (albeit somewhat accurately) " Republicans " (text can't convey the exhibited sarcasm/distaste often conveyed by that statement) are effectively ad hominem attacks that ignore what's really going on. Consider this Washington Post study finding not only that 27% of Democrats have not been wearing masks, but 42% of independents --- roughly the same percentage as Republicans (41%) --- have also refused to do so. That says to me that it's not a political party/persuasion issue (albeit, a factor).... let alone college education (we kinda skewed off-course here)
                  "Praestantia per minutus" ... "Acta non verba"

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by kork13 View Post
                    A very narrow reading of what I said, painted with an awfully big brush... But to your specific point, I would argue that the vast majority of folks refusing to wear masks are not in any way extremists unwilling to change their mindset.
                    Sorry, I was just agreeing with you. You said that politicians are shamed for modifying their viewpoints over time. The CDC and WHO have been similarly shamed for modifying their viewpoints as new information became available. I realize there are a variety of reasons people refuse to wear masks but a big one that I've seen repeatedly is people saying it's because the experts have changed their minds. Changing your mind because you learn new details is a good thing whether you're a Senator, a public health official, or an auto mechanic. You need to be able to adapt and integrate new data into your approach, not stick with what you learned on day one if it turns out that information was inaccurate. And to tie it back into the college discussion somewhat, we often hear (including in this thread) about critical thinking skills. This is exactly what critical thinking means - the ability to analyze available data and make an informed decision. When the data changes, it's okay to change your decision.
                    Steve

                    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I decided to reply before I read all the other responses.

                      For me I've always been conservative because I agree with the teach a man to fish philosophy. College didn't necessarily change me, but it did open my eyes up to other ways of doing things and learning about other cultures.

                      Age and life experiences has made me more empathetic to the plights of others. College taught me how to critically think and look at issues from all sides and not just blindly believe one point of view.

                      Today I tend to land right in the middle politically but I get irritated when my family just recites anything they see on their news program as gospel. And there is no having a dialogue with them or trying to show them another way to think about it. That is what we are lacking in the country, everyone thinks their view is the correct view and is unwilling to listen to the other side.

                      On a side note, out of 5 kids, I'm the only one who graduated from college.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Thrif-t View Post
                        College didn't necessarily change me, but it did open my eyes up to other ways of doing things and learning about other cultures.

                        Today I tend to land right in the middle politically but I get irritated when my family just recites anything they see on their news program as gospel.

                        On a side note, out of 5 kids, I'm the only one who graduated from college.
                        I'm curious what role your parents took when the 5 of you were growing up. Was attending college an expectation in your house? Was it something they pushed for and encouraged?

                        Steve

                        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                          I'm curious what role your parents took when the 5 of you were growing up. Was attending college an expectation in your house? Was it something they pushed for and encouraged?
                          No not at all. My dad was a blue collar worker who held multiple jobs to support his family. I'm the 4th child and it seemed in the mid 80's is when it became more popular that kids went to college instead of getting jobs right out of high school. I live in the rust belt and back then the corporate raider Sir James Goldsmith tried to take over the rubber companies in Ohio and created havoc on the industry. That's mainly where kids worked Goodyear, Firestone, General Tire, and Goodrich.

                          I always loved school but not because my parents pushed education, it was just something in me, I love to learn. I had perfect attendance up until 8th grade when my grandma died. My mom didn't want me to go to her funeral so I wouldn't ruin my perfect attendance, but I had to go to her funeral. As it was, I ended up missing 5 days in all 12 years of school.

                          I had the same track record in college and don't miss any work now either. I just hate to be behind and catch up on work. Just one of my many quirks .

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