Future: Help mom or protect myself (financially)?

[tcatsninfan]

So here's a situation that I'm interested to get some feedback about. Common sentiment is that you help your parents financially (if they need it and you're able) when they're older. But what if they had a million opportunities to save more money over the years and instead chose not to? Would you still feel obligated to help them, especially if it meant putting yourself in a bad way?

My spending/saving habits are the exact opposite of my mom's. She wastes so much money on meaningless stuff. Two of her biggest ones are magazine subscriptions and DVDs. She has literally thousands of DVDs and most of them are still in shrink wrap.

After she and my dad divorced, she "had to have" this brand new car with limited edition whizbangs on it. OK, fine. But then 5-6 years later someone hit it, and when she got the money from the insurance company I encouraged her to buy a used car that was the same price as what the insurance company gave her. But no...she had to go out and buy another brand new car that cost even more than the first one.

She and my dad filed for bankruptcy a long time ago, back in the 90's, but they didn't learn anything from it. After I graduated college I tried to politely talk to her about her finances...look at the monthly picture and see where cuts could be made. I was careful to have a positive attitude about it and not reproach her for her behavior.

Even still, she'd become very defensive very quickly anytime I suggested cutting anything at all. These discussions got nowhere...they'd always end quickly and with her throwing up her hands and saying, "It's my money, I earned it, so I can choose what to do with it."

The problem is that she's 60 now and will be retiring soon, but I know she doesn't have much in her 401k at work. She's worked physical jobs her whole life and is overweight, so I know she's going to have health problems ($$$).

My philosophy in life is pretty basic: Have fun but don't go into debt. The economy hasn't been great, and I didn't major in engineering or something like that, so I don't see myself ever making a ton of money. But I make (and save) enough to take 2 decent vacations a year and still save a good chunk of money for my retirement.

But I'm at a loss as to what to do with this situation. I know what's going to happen: she's going to get a bit older and start having health problems, which will require financial assistance from me. But she's had SO MANY chances to help herself over the years. I tried to encourage good habits in her so many times but I had to stop because I risked alienating my own mother.

Like I said though, I'm not an engineer or lawyer, so whatever money I give her will probably be money that would otherwise go toward my own retirement.

So what do you guys think? Do I take the "She's my mom, of course I have to help her out" approach or the "I have to protect myself, she's going to reap what she sowed" approach?

[JulieAlbright]

Really you could have described my parents with those stories only with my parents a huge amount of the money went to alcohol and cigarettes.

I think really the only time I tried to put a brake on my parents is when they started talking about their fabulous idea of selling their house and buying an RV and just driving all over the place. I pointed out that they were taking their only financial asset (their house) and putting into into a depreciating asset. The talk was pretty much ignored but my Dad's health went really bad before they could ever do it anyway.

But long story short, my Father has passed away. My Mom receives Social Security and a small pension. It keeps her living just above poverty. To tell the truth, she is better off than many of her colleagues, she has some friends that are completely dependent on their children, the government, and their churches or other charities. Sometimes she gets really sad and depressed over money, but I guess you reap what you sow.

I do help her some, mostly by giving her gifts and every once and awhile taking her out to eat or on a small trip. Occasionally I'll pay a bill for her but I'm not going to risk my own financial stability or my kids' futures to give her even more. I wouldn't ever let her be homeless and on the streets, but I have limits.

The really ironic part of it now is that my Mom loves to lecture me. Like I bought my last purse (which I do about every 2 years or so whether I need a new one or not) at Target and didn't even look at Walmart. Thats kind of teeth grinding and tongue biting to not retort back and keep the peace.

[Bob B.]

I don't so much relate with this on a personal level, but yeah, take care of yourself first.

[Fishindude77]

I've been there, will give you my two cents worth.

When my Mom retired, she kept spending like she still had the work income, plus she didn't save very much while she was working. First found out she was in bad $$ shape when she called and told me there was a limb on the roof and was getting a little leak. I went up there checked it out, and there was half a tree on the roof and a hole you could throw a TV through. Asked who her insurance man was, and she confessed that she hadn't been able to pay the homeowners last go round. My brothers and I took care of the roof to the tune of about $10,000.

Started digging into things and told her I would help but she needed to be honest about everything and let me have authority over her finances which she agreed to. Turned out just about everything was late or overdue, and she had about $35,000 in credit card debt the collectors were hounding her about. My brothers and I again got her straightened out and I was able to settle the credit card debt for about $0.50 on the dollar.

The house was free and clear, so we spent more money cleaning that up, then sold it. Netted a few bucks after paying back my brothers and myself the roof and credit card money, then moved her into an apartment. That worked OK for a while with me handling her finances, paying bills and giving her a cash allowance for spending money. Myself and siblings frequently took her to dinner, bought groceries and misc. items for her out of pocket. Her social security was only approx. $800 per month so the earnings from house sale didn't last long.

Health started getting bad and had to go into nursing home. With almost zero assets, she was able to go into a place where we signed over Soc Sec and Medicaid paid everything. When she passed away, she had something like $400 to her name.

My suggestion is do not jeopardize your long term personal financial situation by supporting a parent. help them with incidentals if you can, but don't let it affect important things like your retirement savings, or you will eventually be in the same boat as her.

Best thing you could do is take over her finances, do a better job managing it, and try to help her live within her means, but it doesn't sound like she is willing yet. Unfortunately, she'll be broke before too long and forced into a bad situation where she will have to get some help. It gets to be about like dealing with kids after while.

Good luck !

[sblatner]

Fishindude77 mentioned medicaid. I believe when all her assets are gone except $4k, she will be eligible for medicaid. That might help with medical bills. I know you are worried about her but I agree. You need to take care of yourself first. If you do need to help, pay for certain bills instead of handing over cash. That way, you know where the money is spent.

[snafu]

Did you know my late, very much loved brother and SIL? Like the situation you've described, conversations about money were always a 'walk on eggshells' routine. Is there anyone who's opinion your mom respects? Clergy, bank loan officer, financial planner? Would your mom listen to a loans officer from her bank if you can arrange/persuade her to visit to talk about retirement? It has to be mentioned in a very pleasant, positive way, 'what does retirement look like'? What would you do with all that time?

In your shoes, I'd do my best to let go of all the old mistakes you've observed. There is no going back to change the past and your mom makes decisions that are not in line with your thinking. Sadly, she does things that are very much against her own best interest both health and money-wise. Your time and effort may better help your mom by quietly, pleasantly, and unobtrusively, starting to get as much factual information as possible. It would help in the future to know about her SS eligibility, employer 401K balance, value of her home less mortgage, and any outstanding debt.

Does she get SS survivor benefits from your dad's contributions? Are there any assets that could possibly be sold? Would you be willing to research what services and programs are available in her community to help low income seniors? Does mom currently have medical coverage? What are the qualifications for Obama care [medical] for low income seniors?

Your mom wouldn't accept that right now it costs $ 5,500 a month to live in a nice Assisted Living facility. If ailments require care, what subsidized services are available for her?

[bjl584]

Tough situation. I understand the sense of obligation to help your mom despite her irresponsible behavior. But, at the same time, you need to do what's right for you, your family, and your future. I certainly wouldn't jeopardize my own well being to keep someone else afloat. As hard as that will be to do, you need to do it.

[ronb]

Fishindude77 mentioned medicaid. I believe when all her assets are gone except $4k, she will be eligible for medicaid. That might help with medical bills. I know you are worried about her but I agree. You need to take care of yourself first. If you do need to help, pay for certain bills instead of handing over cash. That way, you know where the money is spent.

My parents are in assisted living and quickly burning through their assets. I believe once they fall to $11k or $17k worth of income they can appppply for medicaid. Who knows if they don't get it. Guess we'll see. Sad that my childhood home will be sold within a year.

[tcatsninfan]

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses. For what it's worth, my dad didn't die; they got divorced back in 2003. My dad has remarried, so even though both of them are terrible with money I know my dad at least has my stepmom to fall back on.

There isn't anyone she'll listen to about money, unfortunately. Her own brother, my uncle, is very good with money and was able to retire at 52 with everything paid for and plenty of money in the bank. Granted, he had a really nice job...but he was also careful with money. I don't think he's ever bought a brand new vehicle. He finds all kinds of ways to do things cheaper.

Anyway. She doesn't have any assets to speak of except for her house, but even that is a really old 2BR/1BA that won't sell for much. I think even in a good year it'd sell for $50,000 max. I suppose that's something.

My brother is younger (24) with no college degree and no savings. He makes decent money but spends all of it every week. Maybe he'll surprise me but I don't think he'll be a lot of help financially when the time comes. When I try to talk to him about money, he'll pretend like he's going to take my advice, but later I'll find out he did the exact opposite.

But yeah, neither of them wants to listen to anyone about money. My mom will get really angry, and I realized a long time ago that she isn't so much getting angry at me (even though it seems that way): she gets angry at herself for being so irresponsible with money. But either way, I can't talk to her about it because of her anger. I get the sense that she's assuming she'll have a heart attack or something before too much longer, so that's part of the reason why she doesn't think about retirement much.

I don't want this to sound like a sob story or something. It is what it is...I'm not upset about it, I'm just trying to understand my best options going forward. I appreciate the advice, and at some point in the near future I'll look into what government assistance programs would be available to her. That's going to be our best bet.

[myrdale]

I think your mother has already answered the question for you: "It's my money I can do with it as I please".

You're not going to be able to change that point of view. She is going to be broke, end of story.

Mine spends $$ on garbage from Walmart constantly. So much "stuff" she doesn't need. I have given up on trying to change that. She recently has started signing up for trips with the church group. The first one she went on was around $500. In October she is planning on attending a trip for around $1,000. When asked what I thought, I told her I thought it was fine so long as she budgeted for it through out the year. The response I got was she didn't have a budget, wasn't interested in working on a budget, and figured she should spend it before she died. At that point I told her it was a pretty sh*tty outlook on life, shrugged my shoulders and don't concern myself with it. I am hands off at this point.

A couple weeks later we were talking and I messed up and told her how excited I was because my 401K had just reached a personal milestone. She then went on about how broke she was, has insurance due on two vehicles, $150 power bill, and other stuff, never mind the fact she is still going on this $1,000 trip. I just tuned it out.

Unless she wants to change, there is nothing you can do to change her. Chances are she ain't going to starve to death and she ain't going to be homeless.

As to the other poster about parents being in assisted living and loosing a childhood home, others should consider having property transferred over in a living will. Medicaid can only seize property that has been transferred in the last 5 or 10 years I believe. Even if they do get the house, a house is only a house. No manner the memories, it is only a thing.