College Financing Disconnect

[Bob B.]

This question may be unanswerable - we'll see.

On one hand, I hear of all sorts of opportunities for high school juniors and seniors to earn college credits at low cost - dual enrollment, virtual university, etc.

On the other hand I hear in the media, and witness on this board the crippling effect of expensive universities, and student loans.

There seems to be a disconnect.

Are these dual enrollment and virtual university credits not transferrable to quality universities?

Or, do these programs offer quality credits, but are wildly underutilized?

Or, are students graduating with way more credits than they need because they change their minds about major a dozen times?

Something else?

My oldest will be college aged in five years, so I'd like to start figuring this out.

Thanks

[bjl584]

I think there are too many kids graduating with worthless degrees.

What good is a degree in history, phycology, liberal arts?

You can get a degree in the Engineering field for the same price and stand a way better chance at getting a good paying job right out of the gates.

$50,000 in student loan debt isn't bad if you start out making $65,000 with an Engineering firm. But, that amount of debt can become an issue if you were a history major and are stuck working at Burger King making $9 an hour.

[Bob B.]

I think there are too many kids graduating with worthless degrees.

What good is a degree in history, phycology, liberal arts?

You can get a degree in the Engineering field for the same price and stand a way better chance at getting a good paying job right out of the gates.

$50,000 in student loan debt isn't bad if you start out making $65,000 with an Engineering firm. But, that amount of debt can become an issue if you were a history major and are stuck working at Burger King making $9 an hour.

Agreed.

I need to simplify my question - should we encourage our children to take advantage of dual enrollment/virtual university type opportunities?

[JulieAlbright]

Both of my kids were dual enrolled in High School with the local Community College. They had no problem transferring their credits to their universities, but they both stayed in State for University. Our state has some type program that if the University belongs to that program then they have to accept equivalent class transfer credits …. like Freshman English credits have to be accepted as Freshman English classes etc etc.

Now as far as getting them graduated more quickly. That really depends. For instance one of the Engineering degrees one of my sons looked at assumed that the first Math class as a Freshman would be something fairly high … maybe one step above Calculus? And that class was a Pre-Requisite for most of the Math and Science classes on the Degree Plan.

If the student couldn't pass a entrance test to qualify them for that higher class or if they didn't already have a College Calculus class in to meet pre-requisites, then they would spend a good deal of their time as Freshman and maybe Sophomores playing "catch-up" on Math.

As far as whether or not it was "worth it," it was pretty cheap for us. I think the State or somebody paid for one Community College class a Semester if they maintained a certain GPA and we just had to buy books and supplies. It really only cost us a couple hundred bucks per class so I didn't think much about it. It was certainly cheaper than the Travel Soccer team fees.

To summarize all that i really encouraged my kids to take the kinds of classes in Dual Enrollment that are the kinds of classes that everybody can apply to the General Ed requirements of degree plan at a University, no matter what their eventual major. So they took things English Composition, Speech and Communications, Political Science, Intro to Religion etc.

[Eagle]

Agreed.

I need to simplify my question - should we encourage our children to take advantage of dual enrollment/virtual university type opportunities?

Another idea is the CLEP program. You basically take a test and get credit for the course. I got either 12 or 15 hours of Spanish that way. Best $100 I spent. Allowed me to graduate in 4 years.

If I could go back I'd have taken some community college while in high school. Particularly in the summers.

[moneybags]

It depends on the school and whether or not you change majors. DD and her friend both had between 10 and 12 AP classes when they graduated, so the equivalent of 2-3 semesters of credit. Her friend graduated in 2.5 years with an accounting degree, her original major. DD changed her major twice, will graduate in 4 years.

I think it's worth it either way. Graduate in less time, or have a cushion to make sure you finish.

[ThriftoRama]

I took college classes for college credit while in high school, and I also earned college credits by taking AP classes and exams in high school. Yes. I was an honors geek. I highly recommend both of these options and will encourage my children to take advantage of them.

To give you an idea, each AP exam where I scored a 4 or 5 (out of 5) was worth approximately 5 college credits. Each of my college courses were at least three, and were always transferred to my college at the same number of credits it was worth when I took the class at community college. Doing this saved me thousands of dollars and I was nearly a sophomore credit wise by the time I started college.

Now, I understand there are also international baccalaureate programs that somehow translate to college credit, but that is new since my time in high school.

I recommend talking to the high school guidance counselor the minute your kids start high school. They should be able to lay out all the various options.

[creditcardfree]

AP classes don't guarantee college credit. One must score well enough on the AP exam to earn credit. My daughter could have taken more of these, but is taking one her senior year.

My daughter did take several dual credit classes that do count as credit at our local community college. The college she is attending in another state said the dual credit classes will likely count as electives.

[snafu]

I've taught at university and see students woefully unprepared for the demands they encounter. I wish parents would insist they get some type of part time work in high school and particularly in the summer. They need to learn about demands from strangers without parental assistance., earn money from effort and possibly gain money management skills. Some high school graduates would do better by taking a year to work before entering college as they need time to mature. The 2 year college program does double duty by lowering overall cost and time to 'learn the ropes'.

Do your best to keep your college student in state since the out of state fees are really horrendous. I believe it hugely important for students to be involved in some aspect of the college experience whether sports or some 'club' group. The friends they make there will be there to lend a hand to all their career aspirations.

I add my voice to the others that explain university students need to look at job availability and first year salary expectations for graduates . Too many that follow their dream end up living a nightmare.

[disneysteve]

Do your best to keep your college student in state since the out of state fees are really horrendous.

This isn't really an accurate blanket statement. Not all schools differentiate between in state and out of state students. Tuition is what it is. Also, it depends on the state and the individual school. We could have sent DD to school out of state at many places that would have been less expensive than the school she is attending in state. You also need to take financial aid into account. DD is attending a good private school for only a few thousand dollars more than we would have paid at a state school thanks to the scholarship she is receiving.

I know this isn't the topic of the thread, but the bottom line is you really need to do your homework when choosing a college. The best value may not be where you expect it to be.

[moneybags]

Do your best to keep your college student in state since the out of state fees are really horrendous. I believe it hugely important for students to be involved in some aspect of the college experience whether sports or some 'club' group. The friends they make there will be there to lend a hand to all their career aspirations.

You must not live in Illinois. We have a lot of students go to state schools in WI, MN, IA or MO because it is cheaper. Our tuitions are high and scholarships not so generous.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

moneybags, if I remember correctly at least some of those states participate in a compact to charge in-state tuition rates to students coming from the other states-- Sort of like a student exchange.

[moneybags]

moneybags, if I remember correctly at least some of those states participate in a compact to charge in-state tuition rates to students coming from the other states-- Sort of like a student exchange.

Correct, many do, but of course Illinois does not participate in that.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Participants in the exchange program I'm thinking of include
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Nebraska
North Dakota
Wisconsin

See http://msep.mhec.org/about There is a special note there about Illinois.

My son attended college in northern Missouri and encountered many Chicagoans at the school, which is a Princeton Review 10 Best Value college. It is true, though, that even without special out-of-state waivers, the school is inexpensive.

http://www.truman.edu/top-10-best-value-public-colleges-nation/

But the general message is that there are many paths to investigate when trying to figure out how to cover college tuition.

Bob, I think that dual enrollment classes are valuable beyond just saving money. Not having to take a few general ed classes leaves the student more time to concentrate on the classes of their major. The institution which awards college credit for dual enrollment will always have a list of the colleges that accept the credit, and I think you will find them pretty universally accepted.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

You have to do your homework. I am going to guess and DisneySteve can correct me that his daughter did not qualify for any need based financial aid? Any aid she got was merit based?

So sometimes going to a school below your "tier" means you get more merit based money.