Retirement Question

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My DH is doubting he wants to retire early or not. He is unsure of what he'll do. He wants to know if we retire early and our kids are in school full time what do we do all day? He is worried about being bored? He is worried about his self-esteem and quality of life non-financial.

What you say? He mentions to me Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, people who work because they thrive on the work. They aren't obviously working for money. So what will his life be like if he doesn't work?

What do people plan to do in retirement? I am not worried. I figure that with kids life will be busy. And I might pick up a part-time job if really bored.

But he doesn't want to give up a lucrative job he likes for potentially working at a job he hates. I don't know what to say. But I do know that I don't think he should work until death because there is more to life.

If it matters both our moms worked until pensions kicked in and now seem bored. And our dads work for stimulation but they don't need to but they WANT to. But both dads are self-employed guys. They work because they like it and love the kick. I think my DH is like this.

What do people do in retirement?

[bjl584]

My Mom and Dad are both retired and they both say that they don't know how they ever had time to work. They have always been active people and both have lots of hobbies, so retirement was a non issue so far as the fear of boredom is concerned.

Does your husband have hobbies or interests that he likes to do? Do you like to travel together? If you can occupy your time with something meaningful and constructive, then boredom shouldn't be an issue.

[jpham540]

Well I’m a long way from retire like 30+ years, but I have look into what I will want to do when I retire. I was thinking of doing volunteer work oversea, traveling around and helping people that are in need. There are a lot of organization that specialize in volunteer oversea work so might be a good idea to look into that, not only are you helping people but you get to experience the culture. I am planning on doing some volunteer work in Costa Rica this year for 2 week debating if I should work on home construction, orphanage, or an animal conservation. Also if you don’t want to volunteer oversea maybe you can volunteer locally. Just some ideas hope it help.

[EarlyRetirementJoy]

Retired at 48/DH 56, three years in to date. What do we do with our time? We pursue activities that are meaningful to us, just as we pursued careers that were meaningful to us prior to ER.

There is a wonderful 'primer' for retirement, "The Joy of Not Working" by Ernie Zelinski, that has a terrific exercise called the "Get A Life" tree. In that tree, he breaks life activities into four categories: 1) Activities I like to do now, 2) Activities I don't do now, but would like to, 3) Activities I used to like to do, and 4) Activities that will keep me physically fit.

The responder is charged with creating at least 50 activities for the tree. Initially many find it hard to get past 15 or so, but once the juices start flowing, most end up going way beyond 50. That list, once generated, is a fantastic start to building a new post-working life. Every activity on the tree has the potential to grow into a significant part of one's post-working life.

In our case, we have turned our love into the outdoors, primarily biking and hiking, into close to full time occupations in ER. We started out simply hiking and biking, but as happens in life, we became exposed to people and opportunities that have taken us in directions we'd never dreamed of. Currently, as just one example, we're enrolled in a wilderness course that requires hours of reading, homework and field training, but that will open the door to a whole new array of opportunities once we are finished.

On top of that, we've become involved in literally dozens of activities that keep us thoroughly satisfied mentally, physically and or spiritually. There is so much out there once you go searching.

Really, it's much like the Faberge shampoo commercial of the 80's - and so on, and so on, and so on.

[HappySaver]

I think if you're one of the few people in this world who are lucky enough to truly love your job and get paid well for it, and if you don't want to retire early, then why on earth would you??

It's been proven that it's healthier to keep your mind and body active for as long as possible, and not everyone can accomplish that with hobbies and part-time work.

I don't understand why you are so intent on having your husband retire early. You can retire anytime you want; you are creating a huge amount of domestic conflict and potential down the road resentment, not to mention financial risk, by trying to force him to do the same.

Is it only because you want to move to the west coast? Do the two have to be mixed together? Can't you move and NOT retire - he finds a similar job on the west coast? If he can only do his job on the east coast, then you will at least have the money to fly back and forth to visit friends and family as often as you'd like.

I read the MMM blog post - you don't have nearly enough money saved to just comfortably retire now (you're so young!!) that you'll need to supplement with odd jobs, etc. Seems like an awfully stressful way to survive, especially if you've given up great paying work you loved. It's more than likely anything supplemental you find won't be as enjoyable (from your husband's perspective).

[scfr]

Isn't relocating AND him continuing to work in his current field a possibility?

Couldn't the 2 of you together put together a list of places you'd be happy moving to, and then he could start looking for jobs in his field in those areas? The more locations you put on the list the more job opportunities he'd have. Without hearing from him directly it's hard to know, but it sounds like he really loves the WORK he does and wants to continue it. I haven't read anything that leads me to believe he wants to continue working for the same company.

As far as WHEN you would move, that would then depend on when he lands a new job doing the work he loves.

[bigdaddybus]

I think you and your husband need to sit down and plan a transition. map out the next 5-10 years on paper and talk about it.

My parents retired 5 years ago and they spent the 5 yrs prior really planning what they were going to do.

My mother teaches classes a couple times a week, not sure if its paid (she does it because she teaches expecting unwed mothers), she is active in several groups, writes, manages flower gardens.
My dad has become alot more involved in his investments and hobbies. They host alot of things at their home, travel, and visit family often. I would say they fall in the "Very busy" retiree category.

One big difference between what you said and my parents was that they were eager to leave the workforce for their last 5 years working. But, they were scared "is enough, enough". Since then they have both said its definately enough, we should have retired earlier.

Some people "Live to work" other "work to live" or some mix in between. My parents were definately the "work to live" type even thought they were high earners with lots of savings and titles. They have always had alot of things in their life besides what they did to make money.

If your spouse loves their work, I would not push them to retire. Perhaps just push then towards taking more time off and spending it with you, family, travel, etc.

[LizfromtheBronx]

My father retired at 50 due to health issues, rather than actually wanting to. Being an elevator mechanic didn't really mix well with his spinal fusion surgery.

He was SO BORED. A large part of it was that my mom was still working, so he couldn't really travel, etc (well, he could have, but had no desire to do so without her). He picked up hobby after hobby, and then grew tired of them all in time.

He eventually settled into a little routine of going out early every morning to get coffee from 7-11, and sat in his car and read the paper, doing errands/household chores in the morning hours, napping in the afternoon, and making dinner in the early evening. By then my mom was home from work and he had someone to talk to. We all used to tease him about being a housewife (no disrespect intended to SAHMs!)

[jIM_Ohio]

My DH is doubting he wants to retire early or not. He is unsure of what he'll do. He wants to know if we retire early and our kids are in school full time what do we do all day? He is worried about being bored? He is worried about his self-esteem and quality of life non-financial.

What you say? He mentions to me Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, people who work because they thrive on the work. They aren't obviously working for money. So what will his life be like if he doesn't work?

What do people plan to do in retirement? I am not worried. I figure that with kids life will be busy. And I might pick up a part-time job if really bored.

But he doesn't want to give up a lucrative job he likes for potentially working at a job he hates. I don't know what to say. But I do know that I don't think he should work until death because there is more to life.

If it matters both our moms worked until pensions kicked in and now seem bored. And our dads work for stimulation but they don't need to but they WANT to. But both dads are self-employed guys. They work because they like it and love the kick. I think my DH is like this.

What do people do in retirement?

I think you have the whole planning process backwards.

First, you have a goal, and your husband does not have same goal. You need to resolve this. Dictating a goal to a spouse is not the right answer. Both of you need to sit down and make productive joint goals. It is tough to do this "yourself", its OK to visit with a financial planner and go through their goal setting process. Consider it marriage counseling for free.

Second, you might be using the wrong words, or wrong method to reach the goals you have not clearly defined. Retirement means many things to different types of people. Define financial independence, retirement, working, and family values. A good financial planner would discuss this with you for free, and realize if you bring this up to a spouse, you might appear confrontational and generate an unneeded argument.

Third, focus more on good financial behavior than a rigid structure of "retirement by year 2xXX", Right now your life looks a certain way, could you have predicted 5 years ago where you were living or what life would be like? The same is true 5 years from now, you can put whatever plan you want in place, in 5 years it will be way off. Focus on good behavior and less on where life will be in 5 years, you only have so much control over what happens to you.

Fourth, I want to reiterate do not discount someone else's goals. If you do, you risk a divorce. I speak from experience on this. The reason money causes so many divorces is because each spouse does not see how the other views money. I believe what makes boards like this unique is you will get different perspectives. From where I sit I see portions of my marriage all over again, two people, with very different views on money, where one person is forcing hand of the other. Be very careful.

[jIM_Ohio]

I think if you're one of the few people in this world who are lucky enough to truly love your job and get paid well for it, and if you don't want to retire early, then why on earth would you??

It's been proven that it's healthier to keep your mind and body active for as long as possible, and not everyone can accomplish that with hobbies and part-time work.

I don't understand why you are so intent on having your husband retire early. You can retire anytime you want; you are creating a huge amount of domestic conflict and potential down the road resentment, not to mention financial risk, by trying to force him to do the same.

Is it only because you want to move to the west coast? Do the two have to be mixed together? Can't you move and NOT retire - he finds a similar job on the west coast? If he can only do his job on the east coast, then you will at least have the money to fly back and forth to visit friends and family as often as you'd like.

I read the MMM blog post - you don't have nearly enough money saved to just comfortably retire now (you're so young!!) that you'll need to supplement with odd jobs, etc. Seems like an awfully stressful way to survive, especially if you've given up great paying work you loved. It's more than likely anything supplemental you find won't be as enjoyable (from your husband's perspective).

+1 excellent post

[BuckyBadger]

I read the MMM blog post - you don't have nearly enough money saved to just comfortably retire now (you're so young!!) that you'll need to supplement with odd jobs, etc. Seems like an awfully stressful way to survive, especially if you've given up great paying work you loved. It's more than likely anything supplemental you find won't be as enjoyable (from your husband's perspective).

Some people buy into the MMM thing, but I don't - and it doesn't sound like the OP's husband does, either. I have no desire to retire tomorrow and live on $20k a year, worrying about running out of money every day. Nor do I want to live on $20k a year right now, "preparing" for doing it for the rest of my life.

There's a lot of room between this "extreme early retirement" and a more conventional retirement at 65 or later. We, for example, are shooting for retirement between 50 and 55. We are saving lots of our money (about 35%) and enjoy the rest. We have hobbies that aren't free and we go on vacations that don't involve hiking and camping, because that's just not what we like to do. We have a mortgage that we're paying off by the time we intend to retire, but no sooner.

If I posted my case study, MMM would say to me, probably in ALL CAPS AND WITH A FEW CURSE WORDS that I'm an idiot and could retire tomorrow if we would just both quit our jobs, move somewhere closer to new jobs that we could walk to, sell all our cars, stop watching HBO, sell our smart phones, and stop enjoying eating out. Oh, and to RUN AROUND LIKE OUR HAIR IS ON FIRE.

But you know what? I don't want to do those things. And I can retire at 50 without having to do those things. And your husband might feel the same way. (And - quite frankly - there's probably more people that think the way your husband and I do than those who feel like MMM does.)

MMM is a vocal proponent of extreme early retirement, but he glosses over a lot of things and is, I feel, dangerously encouraging of his "method."

[Like2Plan]

Retirement is not the same for everyone. I retired 2.5 years ago and I am pleased as punch with my decision. I have seen others retire from my work place who would get another job almost as soon as they retired.

DH is on the verge of retiring, but he isn't quite ready. He still likes his job (for the most part) and he feels like he is doing something worthwhile. I know he would like to have more time off for travel--in some ways I think a part time job (doing the same type of job) would be ideal for him.

What do I do in retirement? Whatever I want! I love being my own boss. I am working on a genealogy project. I like to travel to do more research on my project. My first year of retirement, I didn't do a lot of travel--opting to only go somewhere when DH was also able to also go.

Last year, I was gone a lot. If DH couldn't go, I would go solo. I was able to do some really awesome things--such as research some family letters written during the gold rush in the special collections of the UCLA library. I spent time with my 102 year old great aunt in North Dakota. I went to a high school graduation for a niece in Seattle. I helped my son house hunt for his new house and I helped him move. I went to 2 out of town weddings.

This year, I'm just not sure. I still want to go places, but I don't want to leave DH behind (going to work every day)--it's a real buzz kill . Maybe it is a matter of more strategic scheduling on my part? Last year DH was rationing his leave so he could also help with DS's move. Still, I'm sure DH would rather opt out of a visit with my Mom where my goal is to spend time on quilting projects (Mom and I are geographically separated--she is on the west coast, I am in VA). We're still figuring this thing out.

[snafu]

While we understand that DH identifies himself through work he enjoys, does he have satisfying activities and hobbies in off hours? I admire his steadfastness and willingness to enunciate valid concerns. A lot of less determined, less perceptive men fold to try to keep wifority of mene happy. Have you persuaded him to sign up on LinkedIn or any of the on-line professional employment sites where he may discover other opportunities. Would he be willing to sign on with a west coast Head Hunter organization? I wonder if DH will resent your pushing him to retire. Have you considered what you will you do if he is so bored and dissatisfied he turns to casino, tavern or some other negative time fillers?

How will this disruption affect the children? Teens don't always adjust well to moving cross the country.

This has been a difficult winter and I wonder if that makes the west coast seem more desirable. Visiting family can be very enjoyable but if you've lived east cost for many years while they've developed their own routines and interests different from you. Where are you in the old fashioned spectrum 'you never can go back.'

We're being told to be prepared to fund 35 years of retirement if we choose to retire at 60 y/o. 65 y/o retirement is an arbitrary date set in 1935 for Social Security as the majority of contributors were not expected to live long enough to collect. It's becoming less uncommon to see men in their 70's still working and enjoying it. People who have not been preparing for retirement will need to work far longer to pay expenses.

[EarlyRetirementJoy]

Some people buy into the MMM thing, but I don't - and it doesn't sound like the OP's husband does, either. I have no desire to retire tomorrow and live on $20k a year, worrying about running out of money every day. Nor do I want to live on $20k a year right now, "preparing" for doing it for the rest of my life.

There's a lot of room between this "extreme early retirement" and a more conventional retirement at 65 or later. We, for example, are shooting for retirement between 50 and 55. We are saving lots of our money (about 35%) and enjoy the rest. We have hobbies that aren't free and we go on vacations that don't involve hiking and camping, because that's just not what we like to do. We have a mortgage that we're paying off by the time we intend to retire, but no sooner.

If I posted my case study, MMM would say to me, probably in ALL CAPS AND WITH A FEW CURSE WORDS that I'm an idiot and could retire tomorrow if we would just both quit our jobs, move somewhere closer to new jobs that we could walk to, sell all our cars, stop watching HBO, sell our smart phones, and stop enjoying eating out. Oh, and to RUN AROUND LIKE OUR HAIR IS ON FIRE.

But you know what? I don't want to do those things. And I can retire at 50 without having to do those things. And your husband might feel the same way. (And - quite frankly - there's probably more people that think the way your husband and I do than those who feel like MMM does.)

MMM is a vocal proponent of extreme early retirement, but he glosses over a lot of things and is, I feel, dangerously encouraging of his "method."

He's really not - he's about extreme early financial independence, which then puts you in the drivers seat on whether to continue working or not, a very different scenario from having to work. Replace all references to 'retirement' in your post above with 'financial independence' and see what that does to the equation.

[BuckyBadger]

He's really not - he's about extreme early financial independence, which then puts you in the drivers seat on whether to continue working or not, a very different scenario from having to work. Replace all references to 'retirement' in your post above with 'financial independence' and see what that does to the equation.

Then maybe *he* should replace the word "retirement" with "financial independence."

Although I disagree that many of his case studies should be considered as either.