Government shut down

[Goldy]

I read an article this morning about the shutdown and one of the first lines in the article was something to the effect of how this makes us look. If someone were to come to this forum in debt and worries about how they compared to their neighbors or friends the first thing we would all say is to forget about comparing yourself to them. It seems that this applies to the gov too. We are quickly turning into that friend who has all the nice things but everyone knows its all borrowed money.

Too bad the SA forum can't run the countries finances.

[ua_guy]

I think most of what I've heard, which also matches one of my personal concerns about the shutdown, is how we look in terms of global leadership and setting the stage for the global economy. Money is one thing; leadership is another. If you replace the familiar names and faces in most of the articles, reading them would lead you to believe that this is all taking place in some crumbling 2nd world nation where the government is at risk of being ousted by a bunch of guys in trucks with guns. Maybe that's not far from the truth some days.

Now is not the time to be re-negotiating the Affordable Care Act. Agree or disagree with it, now is absolutely not the time, not on a global stage, not with 800,000 jobs at stake, not with real people losing their earned money in a fledling economy. This is a monumental waste of resources, a terrible show of leadership, and...the world is watching.

[Nika]

Republicans had a lot of bites at the apple trying to repeal it.

Evidently, playing within the rules is only for when you are winning. If you are not, than a suicide bomber route is perfectly acceptable?

[kork13]

Let's be real -- there's no blaming exclusively the Republicans or Democrats or the President. There is plenty of fault to go around here... This is all of them acting like prats and not suitably representing the people of our country. Personally, I'd be absolutely giddy if we (as the American people) could cast a vote of no confidence against the Congress and fire them all on the spot.

It *IS* embarrassing. Perhaps the average Joe in Middletown, USA doesn't see the impact this has internationally, but as stated, it's about LEADERSHIP. America is seen as one of the preeminent powers in the world, and in a huge range of issues, America has & must take a leading role. In many cases, without the support of the US, many international coalitions would cease to function effectively, or at least become severely disabled -- NATO anyone? How about the UN? G8? The 6-party talks concerning North Korea? Or the ISAF coalition in Afghanistan and Anti-piracy efforts in the Horn of Africa? The extensive list goes on. So when something like this occurs where the US government fails to keep ITSELF functioning, the impression in the view of the international community is that "If America is failing to lead itself successfully, how can we trust & rely upon their leadership and support in all of these other issues??" We live in a globalized world. Petty squabbles and absolute failures in leadership such as this is completely unacceptable. It's lunacy.

[ua_guy]

Let's be real -- there's no blaming exclusively the Republicans or Democrats or the President. There is plenty of fault to go around here... This is all of them acting like prats and not suitably representing the people of our country. Personally, I'd be absolutely giddy if we (as the American people) could cast a vote of no confidence against the Congress and fire them all on the spot.

It *IS* embarrassing. Perhaps the average Joe in Middletown, USA doesn't see the impact this has internationally, but as stated, it's about LEADERSHIP. America is seen as one of the preeminent powers in the world, and in a huge range of issues, America has & must take a leading role. In many cases, without the support of the US, many international coalitions would cease to function effectively, or at least become severely disabled -- NATO anyone? How about the UN? G8? The 6-party talks concerning North Korea? Or the ISAF coalition in Afghanistan and Anti-piracy efforts in the Horn of Africa? The extensive list goes on. So when something like this occurs where the US government fails to keep ITSELF functioning, the impression in the view of the international community is that "If America is failing to lead itself successfully, how can we trust & rely upon their leadership and support in all of these other issues??" We live in a globalized world. Petty squabbles and absolute failures in leadership such as this is completely unacceptable. It's lunacy.

I was refraining, but there is clear blame here and 100% of it is on the GOP, specifically a minority of its party leaders. This isn't about supporting the Affordable Care Act. That was passed into law and has been upheld and defended a total of 42 separate times prior to this stunt. The GOP didn't have the support of the majority of its constituents or even its party leaders to shut down the Federal Government, or to take the approach that they've gone with.

Whichever party you side with, or however you do or do not support "Obamacare", the shutdown was wrong and did not have just support for doing so. The Senate is rightfully holding its line and upholding the decisions that were voted upon, and the House is asking for an untimely and unjustified "re-do" and throwing good Americans in the path of destruction in hopes of getting something (that isn't due) out of the deal.

[rennigade]

Thank god members of the house, congress, and senate are still receiving a paycheck. Thats the most important thing...that those people with the multi million dollar homes will still be able to pay their mortgages.

For those bottom feeder government employees who are struggling. You're just going to have to sell some of your possessions, maybe your car, house, furniture? Lets just make it easy...just sell all of your belonging and go sleep on a park bench. At least that way you wont have to worry about rent/mortgage...and you'll still be able to feed yourself for a couple months. When you have time you can then apply for a job paying minimum wage.

I for one and just thankful those in power will still be receiving their fat checks. God Bless America. Land of the Greed, Home of the Salves.

I hope this shutdown goes on for months.

[kork13]

I was refraining, but there is clear blame here and 100% of it is on the GOP, specifically a minority of its party leaders. This isn't about supporting the Affordable Care Act. That was passed into law and has been upheld and defended a total of 42 separate times prior to this stunt. The GOP didn't have the support of the majority of its constituents or even its party leaders to shut down the Federal Government, or to take the approach that they've gone with.

Whichever party you side with, or however you do or do not support "Obamacare", the shutdown was wrong and did not have just support for doing so. The Senate is rightfully holding its line and upholding the decisions that were voted upon, and the House is asking for an untimely and unjustified "re-do" and throwing good Americans in the path of destruction in hopes of getting something (that isn't due) out of the deal.

Personally, I don't "side" with either party, and view the ACA as a prime example of "great idea, poor execution" -- so I'm overall fairly indifferent toward it... But those things aren't even the issue. The ACA & the present squabbles over it are a symptom of a greater plague within Washington. My real point is that our national leaders should not have even let it come to this point at all. There's no reason the gov't should have even faced the threat of a shutdown, waiting until the last moment in order to force the "other side" into a corner. The FY14 budget should have been negotiated, finalized, voted upon, and approved back in August. Yet a full annual budget hasn't been accomplished in what? A decade? Instead the Congress & intervening presidents string us along with continuing resolutions. A lack of adequate leadership from all sides (choosing political gamesmanship instead) brought us to this point. I view it from the larger perspective of an organizational failure within the structure of our political establishment. All I'm looking for is a level-headed & reasoned approach to leading one of the world's greatest nations....not a bunch of grand-standing, mud-slinging & fear-mongering.

Unfortunately, the gov't shutdown & the related issues are almost guaranteed to be heated topics of discussion.... I have a feeling this thread is gonna get nasty

[bjl584]

I have a feeling this thread is gonna get nasty

We won't let it get too nasty.

Disagreeing is fine. Debate is fine. I'll edit out any personal attacks that may start.

[ua_guy]

Personally, I don't "side" with either party, and view the ACA as a prime example of "great idea, poor execution" -- so I'm overall fairly indifferent toward it... But those things aren't even the issue. The ACA & the present squabbles over it are a symptom of a greater plague within Washington. My real point is that our national leaders should not have even let it come to this point at all. There's no reason the gov't should have even faced the threat of a shutdown, waiting until the last moment in order to force the "other side" into a corner. The FY14 budget should have been negotiated, finalized, voted upon, and approved back in August. Yet a full annual budget hasn't been accomplished in what? A decade? Instead the Congress & intervening presidents string us along with continuing resolutions. A lack of adequate leadership from all sides (choosing political gamesmanship instead) brought us to this point. I view it from the larger perspective of an organizational failure within the structure of our political establishment. All I'm looking for is a level-headed & reasoned approach to leading one of the world's greatest nations....not a bunch of grand-standing, mud-slinging & fear-mongering.

Unfortunately, the gov't shutdown & the related issues are almost guaranteed to be heated topics of discussion.... I have a feeling this thread is gonna get nasty

In general I agree, but I still see a clear point of wrong-doing unrelated to overall government preparedness with regards to budgets. The House is literally acting like an angry teenager (toddler, maybe?) using an irrational and illogical argument. I will also add that the President does not pass or approve budgets; he can only propose them. I really see the issue living inside of Congress, and yes, it is comprised of two parties.

One would think that paid professionals who's job it is to prepare, negotiate, and agree on a budget and spending measures would have done so in advance of 11pm the day before a new fiscal year for the United States.

I'm pleased to see that the stock market is mostly content to let the government meltdown happen in it's own sad little corner today like nothing ever really happened. That doesn't fix the 8 straight previous days of decline, however, nor does it promise that it will remain unaffected by negotiations over the debt ceiling.

[kork13]

The House is literally acting like an angry teenager (toddler, maybe?) using an irrational and illogical argument. I will also add that the President does not pass or approve budgets; he can only propose them. I really see the issue living inside of Congress, and yes, it is comprised of two parties.

Agreed 100%. The Senate & President (via veto threat) are similarly obstinate in their insistence that the ACA cannot be modified. The fact that the Congress & its staff are "entitled" to a similar kind of subsidies that the poor receive? Poppycock. Also, an implementation delay of a few months could be of benefit -- already, many facets of the ACA's insurance exchanges are not ready to be fully implemented. Rather than force a square peg into a round hole right now, why not give 3-6 months to whittle down the rough edges to make the implementation smoother and more transparent to the nation that even still doesn't understand the program? There is alot of negotiating room on both sides of the aisle, but no one appears willing to negotiate like adults... As I saw one congressperson quoted (I don't remember who), the Congress is operating under the idea of "my way or the highway...which leads straight off a cliff."

Although presidents don't directly influence budget negotiations & passage, they confer with the Congress during budget consideration (as Pres. Obama has done extensively in the last couple years), and he does approve them -- until signed by the president, any budget bill is invalid, and the president holds veto authority if the budget (or any other bill) is unacceptable.

One would think that paid professionals who's job it is to prepare, negotiate, and agree on a budget and spending measures would have done so in advance of 11pm the day before a new fiscal year for the United States.

No kidding. As I said, I'd love to see the Congress be punished somehow for inflicting their childishness upon the rest of the nation. Unfortunately, as a body, there is very little the American citizenry can do about that.

[bjl584]

I'm pleased to see that the stock market is mostly content to let the government meltdown happen in it's own sad little corner today like nothing ever really happened. That doesn't fix the 8 straight previous days of decline, however, nor does it promise that it will remain unaffected by negotiations over the debt ceiling.

It may start to go down as soon as week's end. The government shut down means no jobs report on Friday. All of the other various economic indicators and reports that the government releases also won't be published. So, inevitably the markets will get jittery the longer this goes on.

[JoeP]

IMHO, the ACA or "ObamaCare" would not be the focal point behind the shutdown if it had been more broadly accepted across both parties. The bully majority move made by the democrats when they rammed the bill through ranks up there with the hissy fit the republicans are throwing right now.

[bigdaddybus]

I think if the Govt shutdown makes it to OCT 16-17th when the debt ceiling is reached I expect the dung to hit the fan.

Looks to me that the Republicans are willing to wait for the Democrats to negotiate. I think the debt ceiling is just the next bargaining chip if the negotions dont start with the govt shutdown.

I hope I am wrong, but I dont see a quick fix here.

[ua_guy]

Agreed 100%. The Senate & President (via veto threat) are similarly obstinate in their insistence that the ACA cannot be modified. The fact that the Congress & its staff are "entitled" to a similar kind of subsidies that the poor receive? Poppycock. Also, an implementation delay of a few months could be of benefit -- already, many facets of the ACA's insurance exchanges are not ready to be fully implemented. Rather than force a square peg into a round hole right now, why not give 3-6 months to whittle down the rough edges to make the implementation smoother and more transparent to the nation that even still doesn't understand the program? There is alot of negotiating room on both sides of the aisle, but no one appears willing to negotiate like adults... As I saw one congressperson quoted (I don't remember who), the Congress is operating under the idea of "my way or the highway...which leads straight off a cliff."

Although presidents don't directly influence budget negotiations & passage, they confer with the Congress during budget consideration (as Pres. Obama has done extensively in the last couple years), and he does approve them -- until signed by the president, any budget bill is invalid, and the president holds veto authority if the budget (or any other bill) is unacceptable.

I don't agree with your twist above. The Senate and the President have no reason or obligation to compromise on the Affordable Care Act. It's already enacted into LAW and the funding was already approved. That's why this shutdown is so egregious. It's not that the House and Senate (and President) can't agree on other spending programs, it the fact that the House keeps throwing in Obamacare changes to their spending proposals and this literally isn't the correct venue to be doing that. They don't have the support of their constituents, The Affordable Care Act is already enacted into law, the funding already approved, and now the House is saying "wait, we never really liked that. We're withholding everything until you (the senate and President) agree to bend to our demands on Obamacare". That's not how Congress works.

Should the Obamacare debate continue under other, appropriate legislative channels? Yes. Forcing a shutdown is literally fits the definition of treason and/ or terrorism, given the cost that our country has already incurred.

[Tonyall]

Whichever party you side with, or however you do or do not support "Obamacare", the shutdown was wrong and did not have just support for doing so. The Senate is rightfully holding its line and upholding the decisions that were voted upon, and the House is asking for an untimely and unjustified "re-do" and throwing good Americans in the path of destruction in hopes of getting something (that isn't due) out of the deal.

I have to agree. Whatever you think about the law, it is the law. Laws can be made and be repealed in the same way. Assuming it was the wrong thing to do, then Republicans have to repeal it legally. Shutting down the government and acting like a baby because you did not get your way is not the way to go about it and will only backfire in the end.