Financial Classes

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Okay so recently more and more I find myself not liking the people I meet or hang out with. I am often now on the lookout for new friends and often times I do things solo with my kids and hope to meet new and different stay at home moms. Why?

I find it hard because a lot of these parents whether they work or not, are of a certain financial class. They grew up upper middle class and got everything handed to them. They don't have to worry about college for kids, retirement, etc. I find that their outlook and background on life is just very different.

I want to hang out with other parents who grew up poor, I find a lot of habits and behaviors I learned from my mom and I find myself defending the poor when people make comments or statements about stuff they will never understand. They think they are "liberal" because they volunteer at a shelter, but they truly don't get it.

They truly don't understand what it means to coupon and grocery shop on a tight budget and eat ground beef because that's what you can afford. That you DO NOT waste food period. That eating out at fast food is a treat because that's all you can afford.

I have meet people who have never eat McDonalds or any fast food. They are food snobs. That it's not "organic". I defend it by saying bill clinton loves mcdonalds and warren buffet has a mcdonalds card. I don't ban any foods, I just do everything in moderation. My DH and I grew up drinking soda, eating candy, etc. Not great but obviously it didn't kill us. We also ate mcdonalds, mac and cheese, etc.

That people who are "poor" don't spend $2k on a week vacation rental house. They don't spend $8k on sailing lessons or buy $15k harps or $10k pianos. Sorry if I'm insulting people here, but I learned piano on a $50 piano my mom scrimped to buy.

I grew up wearing only hand me downs and even now I can't justify buying a $300 jacket when I have a $100. Its unfathomable that our kids even have as much as they do.

Did you jump financial classes? I feel like I sometimes don't fit into the new financial class. Is this the way it's going to be? How do you feel jumping classes? Do you fit in or not?

[disneysteve]

Very interesting post LAL. It will be even more interesting to see what kind of discussion it spurs.

I want to respond but have to think about it a bit. I think you certainly make some valid points about how people think about money having a lot to do with how they were brought up. My wife and I have not "jumped classes" really but we definitely are at a higher rung on the ladder than our parents were. We do things that they never imagined and couldn't have afforded but I still think we're pretty frugal though more by choice than necessity.

I'll be back and I'll follow along.

[Mesem]

Okay so recently more and more I find myself not liking the people I meet or hang out with. I am often now on the lookout for new friends and often times I do things solo with my kids and hope to meet new and different stay at home moms. Why?

I find it hard because a lot of these parents whether they work or not, are of a certain financial class. They grew up upper middle class and got everything handed to them. They don't have to worry about college for kids, retirement, etc. I find that their outlook and background on life is just very different.

I want to hang out with other parents who grew up poor, I find a lot of habits and behaviors I learned from my mom and I find myself defending the poor when people make comments or statements about stuff they will never understand. They think they are "liberal" because they volunteer at a shelter, but they truly don't get it.

They truly don't understand what it means to coupon and grocery shop on a tight budget and eat ground beef because that's what you can afford. That you DO NOT waste food period. That eating out at fast food is a treat because that's all you can afford.

I have meet people who have never eat McDonalds or any fast food. They are food snobs. That it's not "organic". I defend it by saying bill clinton loves mcdonalds and warren buffet has a mcdonalds card. I don't ban any foods, I just do everything in moderation. My DH and I grew up drinking soda, eating candy, etc. Not great but obviously it didn't kill us. We also ate mcdonalds, mac and cheese, etc.

That people who are "poor" don't spend $2k on a week vacation rental house. They don't spend $8k on sailing lessons or buy $15k harps or $10k pianos. Sorry if I'm insulting people here, but I learned piano on a $50 piano my mom scrimped to buy.

I grew up wearing only hand me downs and even now I can't justify buying a $300 jacket when I have a $100. Its unfathomable that our kids even have as much as they do.

Did you jump financial classes? I feel like I sometimes don't fit into the new financial class. Is this the way it's going to be? How do you feel jumping classes? Do you fit in or not?

I grew up poor and now I am in middle class. It's nice to have a higher quality home and all, but what I have come to learn is that friends are more important. I'd rather live in a cottage surrounded by my friends and family than a mansion on Beverly Hills where only Mr. Smith says hi to me every once in a month.

[feh]

I grew up in a middle class family, in a blue collar neighborhood. We didn't have much extra money, but we also weren't scraping by.

As an adult, (almost) all my friends and co-workers are professionals with college degrees, so most folks are doing fairly well. In that sense, I've moved up the socio-economic scale. The people that I feel most comfortable with have their feet on the ground, so to speak, so I haven't really had the problem LAL has mentioned.

I do think about this subject in regard to my son, however. We don't spoil him, but he has always lived comfortably. We occasionally have conversations where I try to make him realize how fortunate he is.

[sherylgray]

We all are financial planners in our own way. Our financial plannings may include anything that we do in our daily life financially. They include investments, education, and expenditures etc. Sometimes we do hire professional planners for big projects.

[breathemusic]

After growing up in the lower middle class, having a parent who clipped coupons and shopped sales and discounts and such, I also happen to get really frustrated with people who have no concept of what it means to struggle financially. The few friends of friends who I've been introduced to that are fairly wealthy, I'm never able to 100% feel comfortable around, like I don't fit in, and I just end up being silent and having nothing to contribute when the conversation revolves around anything that is expensive, like designer brand clothing and accessories, or expensive vacation trips, etc. So I can see what you mean. People tend to be friends with those that they have more in common with, and coming from such different backgrounds and living a different lifestyle means there's less in common.

[lorraineb]

I think that one of the biggest problems in this country these days is people only seeing things from their point of view and not trying to put on the shoes of others. This whole "it's my way and I'm right" attitude from all sections of society makes it much more difficult for everyone to progress. nobody seems to even want to hear an opposing opinion, let alone sit down and consider its merits.

[MonkeyMama]

Depending on where you live, a lot of it can be class, but my personal experience is it has very little to do with social class (though may be a more region specific experience).

When meeting other parents of young kids, we did not meet a lot of long-term friends or particularly like-able people. I think there are a couple of things at play here. 1 - Just having kids in common is not a lot to go off of. 2 - Looking back those years, I don't think the hormones, lack of sleep, etc. helped. (& I mean their hormones and their lack of sleep - boy did I meet some nasty people - I am used to just jiving with people a lot more easily and meeting people that I have a lot more in common with). So, I wonder if this is some of it for you.

My own personal experience is that it has been easier to make friends with higher income neighbors. (We moved to a low cost area - higher end neighborhood - which was initially intimidating). Most the people I have met who were poor, in this area, live FAR beyond their means. (I would have guessed entitled/trust fund type based on attitudes, but no). Most of the wealthier people I have met are more "Millionaire next door types." Commonalities and attitude have meant more to connecting with people than their income, background, and net worth. There are many exceptions to my general experience.

I have mixed feelings about how spoiled my kids are at a very young age, compared to us. I know they understand and believe in hard work, responsibility and the value of a dollar. My kids can stretch a dollar very well, because that is the example they see. (Which is totally different from someone just being handed everything). But, on the flip side, they just don't see the poverty that I saw so much growing up. We have never had to work half as hard as our parents did. All we can do is talk about it, tell them about our family roots, and hope it sinks in on some level. I think it's hard to understand when you don't *see* it. But that they will still have some level of compassion and understanding that they would not have otherwise.

[jIM_Ohio]

Depending on where you live, a lot of it can be class, but my personal experience is it has very little to do with social class (though may be a more region specific experience).

When meeting other parents of young kids, we did not meet a lot of long-term friends or particularly like-able people. I think there are a couple of things at play here. 1 - Just having kids in common is not a lot to go off of. 2 - Looking back those years, I don't think the hormones, lack of sleep, etc. helped. So, I wonder if this is some of it for you.

My own personal experience is that it has been easier to make friends with higher income neighbors. (We moved to a low cost area - higher end neighborhood - which was initially intimidating). Most the people I have met who were poor, in this area, live FAR beyond their means. (I would have guessed entitled/trust fund type based on attitudes, but no). Most of the wealthier people I have met are more "Millionaire next door types." Commonalities and attitude have meant more to connecting with people than their income, background, and net worth. There are many exceptions to my general experience.

I have mixed feelings about how spoiled my kids are at a very young age, compared to us. I know they understand and believe in hard work, responsibility and the value of a dollar. My kids can stretch a dollar very well, because that is the example they see. (Which is totally different from someone just being handed everything). But, on the flip side, they just don't see the poverty that I saw so much growing up. We have never had to work half as hard as our parents did. All we can do is talk about it, tell them about our family roots, and hope it sinks in on some level. I think it's hard to understand when you don't *see* it. But that they will still have some level of compassion and understanding that they would not have otherwise.

I would second this.

Friends are people you have things in common with. Money is NOT a basis of friendship, because money can come and go, it is not consistent... the people which appear to have money today may not have it in 10 years- do you still want to be friends with them if their financial situation changes?

Focus on interests. Skiing, boating, beer, wine, kids activities and spend time with people. I bet if I bumped into you at Panera Bread during a stay at home mom's group you would not know a thing about me financially until we saw each other about 12-24 times.

How much information do you share with your girlfriends about your sex life?
How much information do you share about your financial life?
How much information do you share about common interests?

More than likely people discuss common interests or even sex life more than money. Its just the way people are. Only my closest friends know my financial picture, yet most know who my girlfriend is and my other common interests.

In my 40 years of living I have seen many friends come and go, just the way life is. That is OK. I bet most 50 year old people will tell you that people come and go, so having a common interest or two which help bring new people in your life can be a good thing.

[disneysteve]

Hey Jim! How are you? Great to see you here. How old are the twins now? Hope all is well.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Just a general feeling. Hearing people talk about finances, kids, college,etc. I pointed out once that why funding a Educations IRA for $2k is a good starting point but was told that I should be using a 529 because I should be contributing more for college and that $2k isn't enough. And my parents can give easily into a 529. I don't think my parents can afford to give my kids college trusts. I found it odd that people can talk about getting a gift from parents and expectations of inheritances. Or the reality that we will need student loans and can't afford it 100%.

I've also been told that I am not giving my kid all the tools of success because I am not spending $25k/year to send her to montessori preschool. I don't think it's worth it and I don't have the money. And if i were working I'd save the $25k for college instead.

I have been generously invited by friends to go skiing again but I very politely said it's dependent on price. Actually there are a lot of things I've been invited but I find the cost pretty prohibitive. Which I think "friends" wonder because we don't appear to be suffering and I know one particular friends knows we make more than her and her husband but I always say we can't afford it.

Is it cheapness? Maybe. I think it's just a very different priority. Knowing that my husband and I don't have fallback on our parents to bail us out without an emergency fund (a friend told me this is why she doesn't have one, same friend who pays $25k for montessori for 2 kids). She actually admitted to me she doesn't save for retirement because they are paying for montessori, then looked at me and said "your in the same boat since you don't work. You understand it's impossible to save. You can't be saving on your one income." My response was "we save for retirement because we aren't doing expensive preschool"

Another friend said her retirement plan is her parents, why are they complaining about $50k for a home renovation when they make more than enough in retirement? They need help now why are her parents waiting to leave it to them in 25 years when they may not need it?

Same people have made comments about how they'd never let their kids eat school lunches which is unhealthy and not organic. Or comments about how people feed their kids junk and cheap food. Truth is a lot of people probably are doing the best the can afford.

A different friend talks about how she set aside $250k when her daughter was born from her trust for college. I meant the reality is how can you afford that if you didn't inherit it? It's hard to understand people talking about sales on $300 jackets and stuff when you can't fathom spending that much for a kid?

I find myself trying to avoid some of these people. MM I found myself more and more missing where I grew up. And people wonder why I desire to move back. These are not millionaires next door, rather they are the Joneses.

[imarunner]

i understand a bit, but i don't judge people on what they have or don't have. i'm more likely to judge them if they have a filthy mouth or are not a nice person.

i grew up poor, but didn't know we were poor until i was in my 20s when my mother had to tell me. i don't have as much as other people, but money doesn't define me AT ALL. i'm a fabulous person whether i have money or not and whether my friends have money or not.

i have friends who spend thousands of dollars on their 7 year old birthday party, then others who don't have enough money to pay the bills.

basically i like them for who they are. sure someone will always have more than the next person, but that's life and basically a reflection on the choices we made.

i rather hang around smart people and learn something, but i understand what you mean. maybe you feel more comfortable with people who know what you're going through.

[romavia]

Actually education is the thing which is most important to survive. I am a student of law and had seen a lot of cases in which the crimes are mostly done by the ones who are actually illiterate.

[ideasonfinancing]

Financial classes are products of social norms. They are only created by the society.

The most important thing is to act who you really are, LAL. If you are more comfortable in living a simple life, then, just do it. You do not have to buy a $300 jacket just to fit in and impress the people that are in your “financial class”.

[joywow]

I grew up poor and now I am in middle class. It's nice to have a higher quality home and all, but I grow up happyly, because I have happy childhood, and good friend, excellent family. I don't want to complain, I just hope I can change something by myself. I am happy.