Disturbing comments about college

[disneysteve]

I'm not quite sure where this fits or if it is even a financial discussion but thought I'd share anyway.

I'm a family doctor so I interact with a lot of people in the course of my day. I've been in the same practice for 13 years so I've seen many children grow up along the way. A couple of times recently, I had the occasion to speak to a parent who mentioned that their son or daughter was in college now. My typical question is, "What are they studying?" meaning what's their major? Twice in the past couple of weeks, I got an answer that I found disturbing.

1. He's going for track.
2. She's going for basketball.

Really? I can certainly understand if the child plays a sport. Even better if they are attending on a scholarship (I don't know if these particular kids are or not). But they must still have a major. They still have to attend classes and hopefully earn a degree so that they can have a job when they get out. Nobody is going to hire them for "track" or "basketball". I wonder if either the parents or the children understand this.

I wonder how many kids go to college for sports with no direction academically, and what happens to them when they graduate?

[Bob B.]

Eight or nine years ago our nephew went to college "for football". He is not academically gifted. And while he is athletically gifted, he's not "that" athletically gifted. In other words, the coach did not pull any strings to get him enrolled. He had to get a score on the ACT test worthy of his admission into the university, the same minimum score anybody would need to gain admission. I think he took the ACT three times. He had to get good grades his last semester in High School. He had to earn his way into school to earn a spot on the team.

He was on the team his freshman year. He didn't make the travel team (he stayed home when the football team traveled to another school). He was basically a tackle dummy during practice. But, he was in school. He took his classes, and attended team study halls.

He didn't try out for the team again. But, he stayed in school, and he graduated. He's now working in his field of study, and he earns decent money.

We're not sure if he would have attended college without football. He probably would have, but football provided incentive to do well on the ACT, and to do well his HS senior year. We're glad he had the opportunity.

Clearly, not all stories end this way. Clearly many student athletes don't earn degrees, and clearly the vast majority of student athletes don't play professionally. But, if a few end up like our nephew, that's a good thing.

[disneysteve]

Clearly, not all stories end this way. Clearly many student athletes don't earn degrees, and clearly the vast majority of student athletes don't play professionally. But, if a few end up like our nephew, that's a good thing.

Nice story. Thanks for sharing it. Hopefully, more students who are going for a sport follow that path. I also realize, especially in this area (poorest city in America), sports are often the only way these kids would ever get to college so I'm not knocking that.

Still, it would be nice to hear, "My son is an English major and he's got a full scholarship for track."

[~bs]

Nice story. Thanks for sharing it. Hopefully, more students who are going for a sport follow that path. I also realize, especially in this area (poorest city in America), sports are often the only way these kids would ever get to college so I'm not knocking that.

Still, it would be nice to hear, "My son is an English major and he's got a full scholarship for track."

I think you answered your own question. Anyone going to college can enroll as an english major. Not everyone can make the football team. Parents are proud of both, but which are they most likely to brag about? Is a 4 year lib arts degree really going to seem impresive to anyone other than someone that only has a hs diploma

[elessar78]

As a coach, I feel like you'd get that answer if the the parent wasn't particularly proud of the institution but that's where they could play their sport and probably get some money.

As an aside, the sport I coach is socccer, and parents spend inordinate amounts of money for the whole youth soccer experience and, in equal measure, the kid chooses or they drive their kid to a second tier educational institution so they can get money for college. Full scholarships are rare and even meaningful amounts are rare.

On the low end they spend $2,000 a year for ten years on the high end they'll spend $7,000/year for ten years (from age 8 to 18 or longer). And in the end the most they can get is $2,000-$3,000 a year in scholarship money. Sometimes it's just books. I feel like I should post this in the "Bad Math" thread. The full ride or meaningful amounts is rare.

For a non-revenue sport like soccer there are something like 12 scholarships per team, but you need about 25 players to fill out the roster. A couple of star players will get full rides, say 4. So 8 scholarships need to fit 21 players.

Dirty secret is that coaches DON'T have to give athletic scholarships. They can instead give ACADEMIC scholarships that don't count toward their total athletic scholarships. SO if the kid has good grades (B average or above) there is even more money available to him/her.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Certain college degrees in my opinion are way over-rated and not worth the paper it is printed on. I hope I don't upset anyone holding such a degree or aspiring to attain one but a degree such as theater/drama, fine arts, etc in my opinion are not worth the degree. I guess it may be better than nothing at all but in terms of cost and time expended these degrees just are not worth the return on investment. However, if taken from a self-interest stand point in order to continue learning and not necessarily taken as a career choice then maybe.



Having said that, I too hold a degree that I consider to be practically useless to me. The degree is a master's degree in educational administration in higher education (not K thru 12). I see it as a "catch 22" degree. Institutions want prospective applicants who hold this degree and to have at least 5 years of experience prior to hiring. However, having the degree alone is insufficient to obtaining such a position without any years experience, thus the catch 22. Had I known ahead of time of this fact I would not have pursued this degree. Live and learn though hard lesson on my part.



I also have a master's degree in social work (MSW) which is much more useful. An MSW degree is very versatile and accepted at hospitals, schools, mental health facilities, counseling offices, etc. I'm currently working as a social worker supervisor for a government office. Oh and the degree in most instances is all that is needed prior to hiring with no experience necessary. However, prior work experience is always a plus.

[UnknownXV]

The whole "be whatever you want" cliche is still prevalent in most parents educational vocabulary. I wouldn't say it's wrong necessarily, but it is dumb to assume you can do anything with no backup in mind. Being optimistic and reaching for the stars, while also being realistic and having a plan if it doesn't pan out... well you'd think that would be common sense.

[~bs]

Certain college degrees in my opinion are way over-rated and not worth the paper it is printed on. I hope I don't upset anyone holdin. I such a degree or aspiring to attain one but a degree such as theteachater/drama, fine arts, etc in my opinion are not worth the degree. I guess it may be better than nothing at all but in terms of cost and time expended these degrees just are not worth the return on investment. However, if taken from a self-interest stand point in order to continue learning and not necessarily taken as a career choice then maybe.



Having said that, I too hold a degree that I consider to be practically useless to me. The degree is a master's degree in educational administration in higher education (not K thru 12). I see it as a "catch 22" degree. Institutions want prospective applicants who hold this degree and to have at least 5 years of experience prior to hiring. However, having the degree alone is insufficient to obtaining such a position without any years experience, thus the catch 22. Had I known ahead of time of this fact I would not have pursued this degree. Live and learn though hard lesson on my part.



I also have a master's degree in social work (MSW) which is much more useful. An MSW degree is very versatile and accepted at hospitals, schools, mental health facilities, counseling offices, etc. I'm currently working as a social worker supervisor for a government office. Oh and the degree in most instances is all that is needed prior to hiring with no experience necessary. However, prior work experience is always a plus.

I dont know if I would call some of the degrees you mentioned worthless. But there are too many people that hold them compared to the number of jobs available.

Also interesting that you need am education degree to teach in your state. In mine, all you need os a 4 year degree, any degree and to pass the basic teaching test. I mean, if you have an english degree, what can you do other than teach english?

[elessar78]

I mean, if you have an english degree, what can you do other than teach english?

Be an editor, proofreader, or copywriter (although you probably don't need an English degree to be a copywriter).

[ua_guy]

This borders on a deeper discussion about what we, as Americans, tell ourselves is important, and where we actually spend a lot of our money and effort.

[asmom]

It sounds like the parents are not college educated themselves and do not have experience with the process. I don't think that's a reflection of their commitment to their kids' education but rather their own lack of knowledge. If the kids are going to school on athletic scholarships, they do get advisement and I'm sure they understand that their major is not "track" even if the parents do not. Hopefully, they are able to parlay their scholarships or athletic abilities into academic and career success.

[swapnil]

Actually, this is some familiar thing for me, I am not listening it for the first time, that parents are allowing children to choose sports for their career, it sounds familiar at U.S or U.K countries where sports is given equal priority as education, but if it was a case here in India, I would have found it really sporty and same time surprised on the part of the parents allowing the children to choose sport as a career provided the mentality of Indians towards sports is "sports is just for amusement and not for career and future security, those who allow children to choose sports as a career are found very less in India but I can expect the similar case for children out there at U.S and other countries.

[Bob B.]

It sounds like the parents are not college educated themselves and do not have experience with the process. I don't think that's a reflection of their commitment to their kids' education but rather their own lack of knowledge. If the kids are going to school on athletic scholarships, they do get advisement and I'm sure they understand that their major is not "track" even if the parents do not. Hopefully, they are able to parlay their scholarships or athletic abilities into academic and career success.

My guess is that this hits the nail on the head.

[disneysteve]

It sounds like the parents are not college educated themselves and do not have experience with the process. I don't think that's a reflection of their commitment to their kids' education but rather their own lack of knowledge. If the kids are going to school on athletic scholarships, they do get advisement and I'm sure they understand that their major is not "track" even if the parents do not. Hopefully, they are able to parlay their scholarships or athletic abilities into academic and career success.

Good answer!

[bjl584]

Be an editor, proofreader, or copywriter (although you probably don't need an English degree to be a copywriter).

You can also work at Walmart...

Joking aside, this is a big issue. Kids that are 18 and are barely adults having no clue what they want to do with their lives end up picking a major that has zero marketability.