Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

[bjl584]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

All of the side arguments that have arisen on this matter aside, I say no. Bush will not be impeached before his term is through. Politics sure do get people fired up don't they? I've always been a fundamentalist and try to look at the big picture in a logical way. People that get bogged down in political bickering never get anywhere. Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, a Christian or an Atheist, a Liberal or a Conservative, there is a large movement on this planet lead by a group of people that want you dead. That is the most important issue in our time. Taxes, healthcare, education, immigration....., none if it will matter if we are all dead. Keep that in mind when you go to the polls. Vote for the individual that will protect you and your children. Don't worry about the little R or the D by their name. Listen to the person, what they say, and what they believe.

[KellyJef]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

This is why some people are atheists.

What the heck does that comment mean?

[PRICEPLUS]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We are on a board that is set up to discuss saving money and getting out of debt. While the present discussion is fascinating I believe it to be subject matter for a different type of board.

I was told at a very young age that discussing religion, sports, or politics oft times makes for bad feelings. Let us agree to disagree on politics but remember that this board really was not set up, it appears, to be a political forum. At least as I see it.

Our voice is most loudly heard at the ballot box. Let us be civil and on topic when we use this forum. Can we please turn our attention to the real enemy...DEBT...LACK OF SAVINGS...CREDIT CARD BILLS....INVESTING.....ETC....and so on!

[greedy4chips]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Well said again Priceplus!!!

Politics brings out strong convictions and that is great! This forum is about finances, but the thread was started and has gotten off track. I will never make any friends, since I cannot stand the rhetoric of politicians who babble catch phrases to rile up those who cannot figure out the truth.

When Democrats were in office we had record surplus, because they changed the tax laws to create a huge surplus in tax revenue. It was done by lowering the capital gains taxes. Also the biggest surplus year was a 53 paycheck year for those paid weekly generating huge tax revenues.

I constantly hear people complaining only the rich get tax cuts or get the biggest tax cuts. Well duh, they are the ones paying taxes. Why is it the less fortunate think they are entitled to reach into the pockets of those who work to make the most money?

I write this comment as I listen to John Kerry's speech at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner. Wow! Great speaker. Not a word spoken could convince me to vote for him. Sorry to all who I offend, but I cannot hold my tongue.

Just my opinion.

[sweeps]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Our country is in a very sad state of affairs if people still consider George W. Bush one of our better presidents. If you think he's doing a good job, then you're either living under a rock or watching too much Fox News. (In fact the Bush Administration was so delighted with Fox News that they hired one of their main anchors as Press Secretary.)

Why is it the less fortunate think they are entitled to reach into the pockets of those who work to make the most money?

Who or what determines who should be "less fortunate" than someone else? You? Me? George W. Bush? God? Luck? Birth right?

Let me guess: work ethic. Please don't tell me the average "fortunate" person works harder than the average "less fortunate" person. Please show me a CEO or professional sports figure or heir to a family fortune whose work ethic is 10,000 times the average person.

Bringing someone down from Ultra Stinking Filthy Rich to just Stinking Filthy Rich in order to have millions of other people at least have a liveable wage and minimal healthcare is a moral and ethical thing to do.

I write this comment as I listen to John Kerry's speech at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner. Wow! Great speaker. Not a word spoken could convince me to vote for him. Sorry to all who I offend, but I cannot hold my tongue.

Making someone choose between Bush and Kerry is like making someone choose between a fork in his eye or getting boiling water poured over his head. Just because Kerry would not make a good president, doesn't make Bush a good president.

[DivaJen]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Bringing someone down from Ultra Stinking Filthy Rich to just Stinking Filthy Rich in order to have millions of other people at least have a liveable wage and minimal healthcare is a moral and ethical thing to do.

[greedy4chips]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Less fortunate are those who believe that the richer people owe them something in which they have not earned! It has nothing to do with their work ethic nor their income. There are plenty of people who are satisfied living without all the extras in life. Less fortunate people on the other hand complain that rich people prosper by using the poor to benefit financially.

Would I love to have a million dollar+ job per year? Absolutely! Have I done what it takes to be that person? Absolutely not! Do I want the responsibility of overseeing a company, it's employees, it's customers, it's stockholders, or do I have the talent to be an athlete, actor, musician, etc? Absolutely not!

In America we reward those who have the ability to do something the majority of people cannot do as well. This includes athletes, entertainers, risk takers, and those highly trained to do their job.

We also allow majority rule and if the majority believes they deserve something from the minority they can vote themselves whatever they want. It has been documented that every Democracy in history has fallen within 200 years of learning this philosophy.

The rich pay the greatest portion of taxes in this country by far! They also spend the majority of money on non essential items that keep many people employed, yes at somewhat depressed earnings. But that is only because they are doing jobs that are able to be done by many people. Supply and demand have a huge effect on wages. During the Dotcom boom beginner computer programmers made a fortune because there was very few qualified programmers to chose from therefore companies would have to pay more to attract them.

This is however not true for fast food, retailers, grocery stores, etc who have an abundant supply of unskilled workers to choose from.



Another way to look at the less fortunate is by the income scale which seems to be used for the most part in describing less fortunate individuals.

Say $20,000/yr is the poverty line and the government decides to somehow get all those below $100,000 up to the $100,000 line through aid or wage requirements. Overtime the individuals who deserve to make more will eventually earn more than those who do not or else they will take jobs which require less skills or stress (why be upper management at a local business when you can get the same pay to work the counter at a movie theater).

All the above scenario does is to move the poverty (less fortunate line to a new point) and as prices reflect the increase in wages, the less fortunate will still find them in the less fortunate bracket.

Every product or service has a cost to produce/supply and if you cannot sell that product for a profit you cannot stay in business.

Compare 2 lemonade stands run by two 8 year old girls. Stand 1 chooses to setup her stand in location A, while stand 2 is set up in a very high traffic area. Stand 2 can purchase cups, ice, lemons, etc in bulk and saves 8 cents per cup in production. She can then sell her product for 10 cents less per cup and still profit much more than stand 1. Stand 2 gets so busy she hires another girl to help out and pays her a decent wage while still making a profit after paying her. As sales increase her profits increase and she has the right to decide if her new employee deserves a pay raise or a share of the profit based on her abilities and whether she is responsible for an increase in business.

Meanwhile stand 1 feels the crunch and demands a minimum price be set on lemonade sales in town so she can compete fairly. Does this promote competition and entrepreneurship? No. Stand 1 feels less fortunate and wants to penalize stand 2's ability to succeed and prosper by driving up prices so stand 1 can compete and prosper as well. Customers have to pay more for their product and eventually only the richer people can afford to purchase lemonade.

Less fortunate individuals who want to be customers decide that for some unknown reason Stand 2's owner should not be making all the money she is even though she saw a need for a product, produced a better product, and found a good location in which to sell it. She could have failed. For this risk taking and entrepreneurial skill she deserves to make money.

Who or what determines how much she is allowed to make? You? Me? George W. Bush? God? Luck? Birth right?

No, the free market gets to decide. If people do not like the wage they make then they need to get the skills to earn a better living. If no one comes to work for McDonalds on Monday morning and no one wants to take their jobs for the same pay, McDonalds has 2 choices, raise wages or close the doors.

I have said this for as long as I can remember...This is America and you can be whatever you want if you want it bad enough!

Eventually the cream rises to the top...you can stir it up as much as you want but the cream will rise to the top again.

[sweeps]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

greedy, listen, I'm not advocating flat incomes for everyone. I agree that people who take entrepreneurial risks and have extraordinary skills (and even those who don't and just happen to be lucky enough to inherit insane amounts of wealth) definitely deserve to remain rich.

However, the "free market" is far from perfect. You're going on the assumptions that (a) all people have the ability work, they always have work available to them, and that the work they are capable of can earn their family enough to survive, and (b) that the wealthy will always make investments to put people to work and not simply stash it away. Unfortunately those assumptions aren't valid.

A limited amount of wealth distribution is good and it is the right thing to do. I think even the ultra-wealthy (at least deep down) understand that. And you made my last point for me:

Eventually the cream rises to the top...you can stir it up as much as you want but the cream will rise to the top again.

Exactly. So "stirring things up" just a little bit and helping the less fortunate is a win/win for everyone.

[greedy4chips]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

The problem is once you stir things up, you create dependency and more entitlement thoughts. Everytime we feed the birds we get more birds showing up to eat. While this is not the birds sole source of food it is an added easily attained source. If you take it away, the birds will seek out other sources of food, people on the other hand complain that you are taking away something they are dependent upon to be able to live day to day.

I just think that people believe they are entitled to have all the extras in life without actually earning the money to pay for it. I live below my means and so do many here. I don't think I want the rich to be taxed more just so I can get a check in the mail. I would certainly appreciate the extra money, but I am not out there demanding it.

Yes there are people who are unable to work, like myself, due to numerous reasons. I am all for helping those individuals out. I am not however willing to help those who choose to be less fortunate income earners.

[lrjohnson]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Well said again Priceplus!!!

I write this comment as I listen to John Kerry's speech at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner. Wow! Great speaker. Not a word spoken could convince me to vote for him. Sorry to all who I offend, but I cannot hold my tongue.

Just my opinion.

What the heck? Again you said "well said" to priceplus. Again you then don't listen to him. Are you not seeing that after he asks us to get back to non-political money issues, you get political again? Geez, stay political if you have too, but saying well said to Priceplus then going back to politics is just non-sensical.

[greedy4chips]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

What the heck?

"Well said" does not mean I agree with him at all, it merely states that I believe it was a well written post.

If I said, "I agree completely", and then argued the points made you would have a valid point.

[JoyJoy]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

All I have to say is, "It's unreal what this one president has been through." Regardless of how I feel about him personally, I wouldn't wish all these things on my worse enemy. Every day it's something!! I don't think there is a president in history who has had as many dilemmas as President Bush!

I do feel he will finish his term.

[Elgin526]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Do I think he will be impeached? No.

As for the tax debate. Should the wealthy be taxed at a higher rate than the poor and middle class? Yes, but only to an extent. No one should have to pay half their income in taxes no matter what they make!

A person making $25,000 is burdened by a 10% tax, but a person that makes $100,000 can handle it and someone making a million a year would hardly miss the money. So (in this example) it's fair that the $25,000 person pay only 5%, the $100,000 stays at 10% and the million doller earner pay 15% (or whatever higher percentage it would take to make up the differance in what the $25,000 earner is no longer paying, it would likely be less than 15% but I don't feel like running the numbers).

If you are just looking at numbers, a flat tax appears to be the most fair on the surface. Everyone pays the same percentage, that seems quite logical. But the less you make, the less you can afford that percentage to be taken from your income and the bigger burden it becomes. In real life, the graduated tax is more fair.

[markio26]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

NO! bushman will go down in history as a great president, he has endured much...

[Broken Arrow]

Re: Do you think George W Bush will be impeached before the end of his last term?

Hehehe. Hey, Sweeps, where'd you go?

Resistance is futile!