Upper and lower middle class

[UnknownXV]

I am a frugal person. But I live on a low income, due to not having any talents or passions that would translate to a higher income. On just a bit over $1,000 a month in income, I manage to save almost half. But, that's by cutting back on these "essentials". No insurance. I do live in Canada, so health care is free, although not the dentist. I rent, and don't own a lot (I'm 22).

The biggest problem for me is eating healthy. I budget $200 a month for food, but to cook all my meals and make them taste good and make them healthy, it could cost at least twice that given the food prices here. Such a shame.

It's not surprising why so many people are unhealthy and fat, eating right and exercising requires you have the extra money to buy good food, as well as the time, willpower and energy leftover to cook the food and workout.

[Gailete]

Lucky Robin, very interesting graph. Thank you.

[Gailete]

Could you husband get a better job if he got his surgery?

No. He is self-employed in a profession that is rare- he restores pianos and rebuilds player pianos and does tunings. It would just give him a better ability to do his work. As it is he has been shifting his focus for what he does and soon will be doing just mostly tunings as the restoration work is getting too much physically. Due to his health problems he has to remain self-employed as well, as no job would allow the sick days he needs. He could apply for disability and if he got it would be eligible for Medicare in 2 years (that is how long someone has to wait to receive Medicare if they become disabled according to SS, so a sick person has to handle all their bills on their own for 2 years before they get any help). But then he wouldn't have the freedom to make money without jeopardizing his benefits and Medicare. It becomes a vicious circle.

No I don't think I am missing your point about the benefits of health insurance. I think I understand it ways you can't even comprehend. You can look back a a $90K bill and be grateful that you had it. It is vastly different than looking back at a bill and wondering how you will pay off a bill that represents pretty much your entire income plus for a year. What should we give up to be able to afford insurance? Home, food, heat, electric, my MC supplements??? That is what many Americans are facing daily. It isn't that they don't want health insurance, but the money just isn't there no matter how much they would like it to be.

I'm not trying purposely to be ornery or obtuse, but too many folks just can't comprehend that some things are out of some people's control. It doesn't mean they don't care it just means they can't.

[MonkeyMama]

I'm not trying purposely to be ornery or obtuse, but too many folks just can't comprehend that some things are out of some people's control. It doesn't mean they don't care it just means they can't.

Maybe this is not the thread to discuss this as many found it offputting and took offense. & I am sorry for the difficulties that you face.

BUT... I think for the vast majority the information in these forums and a "take charge/financial education" type attitude can do wonders for many. You are not average. Doesn't mean that 90% of the population can't find this information or approach useful.

I think the point is often missed that a lot of the focus on very large savings rates, insurance, etc., comes from many of us being in a hard spot at some point in our life and never wanting to go back there. Usually the opposite is kind of true - we are more sensitive than average to all that can truly go wrong.

If you don't want to be judged, it helps not to be judgemental. "Poor me," is just fine. "Poor me, I find nothing useful *to me* here" is just fine! It doesn't have to be, "Poor me, no one else can possibly ever understand, and they are all obviously clueless." Advice asked for in this forum is not relevant to all, obviously.

[Mjenn]

Could you husband get a better job if he got his surgery?



It is not always enough. With great planning one can protect oneself from being ruined by a minor or a temporary setback, but a catastrophic illness can put any average family out of the middle class.

Insurance is one of the dams that slows down that surge. Each dam is of different quality and height.

Yes, but as you point out, some things are completely inevitable. My relatives were well prepared, had a good deal of savings and were ready to retire. They had insurance and had a medical emergency 2 years before retirement. Insurance pre-approved the procedure and then afterwards, denied payment. Left my relatives with 6 figures in medical bills and a legal battle that lasted 2 years that they lost. Even with negotiations with the doctors, they were still left with a huge bill. Despite doing everything right. Five years later and they still cannot retire.

This is one of many reasons why I still live in Europe and am unsure if I will return. My middle class status is not threatened in the same way. Sure the dam could break, but it would take a whole different set of circumstances.

[UnknownXV]

Yes, but as you point out, some things are completely inevitable. My relatives were well prepared, had a good deal of savings and were ready to retire. They had insurance and had a medical emergency 2 years before retirement. Insurance pre-approved the procedure and then afterwards, denied payment. Left my relatives with 6 figures in medical bills and a legal battle that lasted 2 years that they lost. Even with negotiations with the doctors, they were still left with a huge bill. Despite doing everything right. Five years later and they still cannot retire.

This is one of many reasons why I still live in Europe and am unsure if I will return. My middle class status is not threatened in the same way. Sure the dam could break, but it would take a whole different set of circumstances.

How did they lose the battle if they were pre-approved? I never get legal battles. You'd think, with such a clear cut case of abuse, that it would be finished in a month or two.

Very sorry to hear about this.