Trip versus savings *LONG*

[EconDiva]

Warning: long post

I have a very small family and my younger brother is stationed near Tokyo, Japan. I've wanted to visit there for a long time now, and since he's there it's even more ideal since I'd have a free place to stay.

Howevever, he's not going to be there for much longer. He's in the navy and will be re-assigned by April of 2013. My mom and I had talked about going to visit him for the past 2 years, but we couldn't afford to do so. I actually pretty much dismissed the idea of visiting him this year, because I recently moved to a new city about 4 months ago for a new job...so I don't have much vacation time and I wanted to focus on savings/debt.

However, my mom is now very intent on seeing him next March. I guess I'm a little frustrated because I am experiencing a range of emotions over the possibility of this trip:

1. My mom never goes anywhere but to work and home. She can't afford to do much, and this trip would probably mean the world to her. She plans to put all of her tax refund into this trip, which she expects to be about $1k. Part of me wants her to use her money for something more practical, like the many broken things that she needs to get fixed in her home. However, the other part of me feels like "you only live once", and she never takes vacations or goes anywhere, and it's not my business how she decides to spend her money anyway.

2. My brother doesn't keep in touch with us. I may hear from him 1-2 times a year. Some people say that's just "how boys are"...long story short, he's very withdrawn/quiet and we rarely know how he's doing or anything that's going on in his life. Sad to say, but sometimes I forget I even have a brother Last time he was in the states earlier this year doing a short assignment in San Francisco, he made the plans to see my mom and bring her up to my city so we could all spend mothers' day together. Long story short, he changed plans, didn't come up to my city, and never told me he wasn't coming. I had worked over time that week to have a day off since I have a new job and didn't have vacation time built up yet...for nothing. I could have flown down to be with them IF he would have at least communicated to me that plans had changed. I'm still upset about this and I don't like the idea of traveling across the world with the potential of a breakdown in any kind of miscommunication.

3. I feel like every time I make a commitment to make saving/paying down debt/overall financial responsibility to be a priority, something like this comes up. Because my mom hadn't mentioned anything about Tokyo in months, I thought we weren't going to go. To plan a trip there in the next 5 months is going to make a pretty big difference in my budget. Although there are some major advantages in that we'd have a free place to stay, my brother has offered to pay towards my mom's flight, and that I'm pretty confident I'd be able to get us a decent deal on flights, it bothers me that I'd be starting out the new year "behind" because of having to put money towards this trip.

4. My mother has made it very clear that 'she can't go if I don't go' since she won't fly by herself. What kills me is that when I asked her about things she wanted to see while in Tokyo, she stated that she "didn't care about seeing anything other than where my brother lived." So in a way it doesn't make sense to fly there just for that...I want to see him AND Japan. Plus, I've played a big part in planning a few trips in the past, and my focus right now is on my job. Anything that involves my mom, I have to take the lead on....and I simply don't 'feel' like planning this whole trip by myself. Lastly, my brother may actually be back in the states within a few months of us going there to visit him.

Overally, I feel guilty about not wanting to go because of not wanting to spend the money. I feel like family should be more important than that. There's just a big part of me that feels like going would be a financial mistake.

Thoughts?

[riverwed070707]

My first thought is that everyone looks at money differently -- what you might consider "tight" someone else may think is totally doable on your income. Can you post your estimate for the cost of the trip, what you have in savings now, how much you'll need to save per month to make it happen, etc? This is a numbers group and we don't have the emotional attachment to the situation that you do so perhaps it will help give a different perspective on whether its financially irresponsible or a just little outside your comfort zone.

Beyond that I would just say if it truly is beyond your means, you aren't going to enjoy the trip having to fret about every penny you spend. If you will need to go into debt to do it, I defintely wouldn't even be considering it.

REVISED RESPONSE after seeing some of your other posts...
You've got a lot going on. You're just getting settled into a new job, you're looking to move to a new apartment, you've got several things you're saving for, is the stress this trip is going to put on you and your budget worth it to you? I have no doubt you could do it if you buckled down and saved but would you rather save for your retirement goals, house dp, new apartment, etc and get settled into those things that are going to benefit you for the long term? Don't think about what others want or how your decision will look to others, base your decision on what YOU want to do and feel comfortable with.

[kork13]

I just returned to the states from an assignment in Japan, so let me tell you this decision is a very common one. And honestly, many people do decide that it's just not worth the cost to go visit family stationed in Japan (or in the case of the service member, not worth the cost of flying back to the US to visit family). I only made the trip once in the 2 years I was stationed there, and my family never made it (though my parents really wanted to come out there).

Have you looked at airfare prices for going out there? Your mother's $1,000 tax return won't be a drop in the bucket for this trip. Average round-trip ticket prices are between $1200-$1500 (though they can be found for around $1000). And that's just for the ticket out there. Hotels are also exorbitant (at least $100/night), and with the current value of the Dollar vs. the Yen, Japan is overall a VERY expensive place to visit.

If you and your mother can afford to spend $2500+ (each) on a trip out there, go ahead and do it. Japan really is a fun place to visit, and there's alot to see. But realistically, it's very expensive -- if you can't afford it, don't go.

[phantom]

I can somewhat relate to what you are going through. My brother in law is in the Air Force, and he was stationed in Japan for a few years. My husband (then boyfriend) and I both really wanted to visit Japan, and going there to see his brother would have been great. Then my brother in law's first child was born, and we wanted to visit even more. But, we were saving for a house and a wedding and just didn't have room in our budgets for a trip to Japan, so we put off the trip. Eventually, he was stationed elsewhere before we found the time and money to go visit.

It's a shame that we never made the trip. But, Japan is still there, and we can still go there someday, and we have found other opportunities to see my brother in law stateside. The disappearance of a free place to stay is a shame, but I don't think a bargain is a good deal when you can't afford the sale price. So, I don't regret the decision not to go at all.

I think you need to figure out whether or not going would really be a financial mistake for you and base your decision on that and that alone. Then, if you really don't have room in your budget and it really is a mistake, you need to let your mom know you would love to go but just can't afford it right now. Don't let her guilt trip you into doing something that you know is not good for you. Don't think of it as a money verses family issue. I see it as a personal well being verse family happiness issue. Maybe you would sacrifice your happiness for your mom's or your well being for your mom's. But, you don't need to put your well being at risk to make your mom happy. Once you're on more stable financial footing, there will still be time for fun trips with your mom. In the meantime, you can find ways to spend time with her and make her happy without spending money. As for your brother, I'm guessing you'll be able to see him soon in between assignments. Regardless, you might make more of a connection with him through Skype and email than you can with a single in person visit anyway.

[SeanH]

If your brother didn't live in Japan would anyone be making plans to visit there?

[seen]

Alternatively, you could look into airmiles credit cards if you haven't already.

By the time you meet the requirements for the bonus miles it might be too late (ie. no available flights for when you want to go), but here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Citi AA: $100 off, 50k, & Companion Cert [plus other offers as they appear] - FlyerTalk Forums

When done correctly, the two non-business cards together will net you 100,000 bonus miles which is enough to cover a round trip business/first class flight or 2 economy flights to Tokyo. I was able to get in on the 75k deal which landed me 150k bonus miles total, but I WISH I had known about it sooner before I flew to Vegas last year.

[MonkeyMama]

The advice you have been given is good. Unfortunately, outside a forum like savingadvice, you would be strongly encouraged to just go. People's brains seem to go out the window when it comes to travel. So I am relieved to see common sense responses.

Usually, it's a lot of "you only live once," kind of comments. The thing is the thing that really matters in this life is who you spend your time with - not where you have been. Tokyo will *always* be there. I would encourage you to go if you felt passionate about traveling to Tokyo, or if you had true loved ones there that you would not see for a while. {For reference, my sister is selfish and a very difficult personality - I would not pay large sums to spend more time with her. Who cares if she is family. There are plenty of people in this world that I rather spend my precious time with/money on}.

& there is no way in heck I would go on a trip that big with only 6 months notice to save up for it.

I get the feeling you aren't overly interested in the trip and don't have strong motivation (outside of pressure from relatives). In your shoes, I would stay home with no regrets. Plan a reasonable vacation with your mom in the states, instead. "Never goes anywhere" and "Tokyo" are two extremes. They are certainly two financial extremes. Find some middle ground - maybe wait and see where your brother is stationed next.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

[Nika]

When I saw the beginnig of your post, I was inclined to encourage you to go, but as I read on, I've changed my mind.

It would only be worth if if you guys were close, if you knew you could depend on your brother.

I love Japan, I've been twice for about 3+ weeks total, but it is really expensive. (and we are from NYC and not in debt). Still, sticker shock. Unless your brother is super suportive and will be your guide, on your tight budget and with lack of travel experience abroad, you will be very stressed. I love travel, and have spend a lot of time in Asia, but in this case I would not recommend the trip.

[EconDiva]

If your brother didn't live in Japan would anyone be making plans to visit there?

Nope..................

[snafu]

Your mom's motivation for the trip is to see her son who isn't close and makes little effort to stay in touch. He will likely return to the USA when his tour ends. While you may wish to explore the Japanese culture, food and lifestyle, I doubt you'll get the support you'd need to meet your goals since the costs are very high by American standards. Spending significant sums for air fare will likely frustrate and disappoint you both without expected payback.

You could e-mail & use Skype to help mom stay in touch. DB could email pictures of his accommodations and surroundings and make an effort to stay in touch with your mom electronically. These days with re-phone services calls to Asia are as cheap as $3. for 60 minutes. I work in SE Asia and family calls me to discuss day-to-day concerns or emails details that need attention easy peasy.

Your mom needs items repaired for long term usage more than a l-o-n-g, expensive flight that neither of you can truly afford. your library likely has several DVDs outlining travel to Japan. Have a look to see if you truly would benefit from the trip.

[Mjenn]

I'm going to go in another direction and say that if you feel like in general you are financially responsible and have reasonable control over your finances, you should go for it.

That said, I have always been one to splurge a little on experience, and instead avoid buying stuff, since I am not a fan of buying and having lots of stuff.

As someone who travels a lot, the chance to see a new place while staying with someone who lives there and knows the area is something that is difficult to quantify in money. But I have been known to jump on an airplane to visit people whenever I have the opportunity.

My brother and I don't talk often, but we both have lived all over the world and have always taken the opportunity to visit each other in random locations. It has been a great way to catch up and keeps us close even if we don't always talk.

The chance to enjoy this experience with your Mom is also a pretty unique opportunity and something that would be a great memory for you both.

There are great ways to travel on a budget and you can do this cheaply. Not just because your brother lives there. Cheap travel can also be a lot of fun. We had the most romantic week in Paris on a teeny tiny budget and it was unforgettable.

Of course if you feel like you really cannot afford it, are carrying a ton of debt, or would have to borrow money to go, I wouldn't go. But if the choice is between savings or taking the trip, I would say go for it. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

[EconDiva]

My first thought is that everyone looks at money differently -- what you might consider "tight" someone else may think is totally doable on your income. Can you post your estimate for the cost of the trip, what you have in savings now, how much you'll need to save per month to make it happen, etc? This is a numbers group and we don't have the emotional attachment to the situation that you do so perhaps it will help give a different perspective on whether its financially irresponsible or a just little outside your comfort zone.

Beyond that I would just say if it truly is beyond your means, you aren't going to enjoy the trip having to fret about every penny you spend. If you will need to go into debt to do it, I defintely wouldn't even be considering it.

REVISED RESPONSE after seeing some of your other posts...
You've got a lot going on. You're just getting settled into a new job, you're looking to move to a new apartment, you've got several things you're saving for, is the stress this trip is going to put on you and your budget worth it to you? I have no doubt you could do it if you buckled down and saved but would you rather save for your retirement goals, house dp, new apartment, etc and get settled into those things that are going to benefit you for the long term? Don't think about what others want or how your decision will look to others, base your decision on what YOU want to do and feel comfortable with.

In regards to the bolded...I'd rather be without the stress. But I'm trying to be rational yet unselfish, and I feel a lot of pressure to make this happen.

[EconDiva]

I just returned to the states from an assignment in Japan, so let me tell you this decision is a very common one. And honestly, many people do decide that it's just not worth the cost to go visit family stationed in Japan (or in the case of the service member, not worth the cost of flying back to the US to visit family). I only made the trip once in the 2 years I was stationed there, and my family never made it (though my parents really wanted to come out there).

Have you looked at airfare prices for going out there? Your mother's $1,000 tax return won't be a drop in the bucket for this trip. Average round-trip ticket prices are between $1200-$1500 (though they can be found for around $1000). And that's just for the ticket out there. Hotels are also exorbitant (at least $100/night), and with the current value of the Dollar vs. the Yen, Japan is overall a VERY expensive place to visit.

If you and your mother can afford to spend $2500+ (each) on a trip out there, go ahead and do it. Japan really is a fun place to visit, and there's alot to see. But realistically, it's very expensive -- if you can't afford it, don't go.

I have looked at flights and know they retail around the $1200-$1500 you mentioned. My brother offered to pay for part of her flight, but how much, we don't know (hasn't been discussed yet). I was thinking if we did go, I'd bid on the airfare to save money. We would be staying with my brother, so we'd have a free place to stay.

I just don't like the idea of putting making this trip a financial priority when I have other financial priorities to take care of.

[EconDiva]

I can somewhat relate to what you are going through. My brother in law is in the Air Force, and he was stationed in Japan for a few years. My husband (then boyfriend) and I both really wanted to visit Japan, and going there to see his brother would have been great. Then my brother in law's first child was born, and we wanted to visit even more. But, we were saving for a house and a wedding and just didn't have room in our budgets for a trip to Japan, so we put off the trip. Eventually, he was stationed elsewhere before we found the time and money to go visit.

It's a shame that we never made the trip. But, Japan is still there, and we can still go there someday, and we have found other opportunities to see my brother in law stateside. The disappearance of a free place to stay is a shame, but I don't think a bargain is a good deal when you can't afford the sale price. So, I don't regret the decision not to go at all.

I think you need to figure out whether or not going would really be a financial mistake for you and base your decision on that and that alone. Then, if you really don't have room in your budget and it really is a mistake, you need to let your mom know you would love to go but just can't afford it right now. Don't let her guilt trip you into doing something that you know is not good for you. Don't think of it as a money verses family issue. I see it as a personal well being verse family happiness issue. Maybe you would sacrifice your happiness for your mom's or your well being for your mom's. But, you don't need to put your well being at risk to make your mom happy. Once you're on more stable financial footing, there will still be time for fun trips with your mom. In the meantime, you can find ways to spend time with her and make her happy without spending money. As for your brother, I'm guessing you'll be able to see him soon in between assignments. Regardless, you might make more of a connection with him through Skype and email than you can with a single in person visit anyway.

All of the bolded is very true.

I know I won't be able to go home for Christmas, which was my current plan, if we make this trip. So that's another important thing to consider.

I just feel like there are so many other important things for me to spend my money on than this right now.