Negotiate a used car help please

[snafu]

The best time to buy a car [I've read] is near the end of the month when the salesman and dealership need to boost their numbers. If the weather is bad [rainy/cold] they are even more anxious. A car is often the 2nd most expenive item bought. It's work and not to be rushed or an emotional decision.

You know the KBB, as they come down in asking price, you can go up in small numbers and ask for other benefits like quality tires or free oil changes for example.

I would insist on at least a 30 day warranty and take it for a serious test drive. Check with Consumer's or Lemon Aid books [available at library] for weakness in that particular make/model to give you confidence. Ask to see the Manual to see if any warranty work has been done and insist they transfer remaining warranty to you without charge. I wouldn't allow any add-on costs. They would be deal breakers for me.

[Xtreme Thunder]

Recently my wife and I purchased a 2010 Honda Civic with 23K miles for $14,300. It was certified used, but had been on their lot for over 45 days. The KBB on the vehicle was $16,800. I was able to get them to toss in the extended warranty that's kicks in after the original manufacturers warranty and all season Honda floor mats. Haha. Paid all taxes and licensing out of pocket and only financed the cost of the vehicle.

We had a trade, but did not take the dealer offer on that which was $800. We sold it ourselves for $2,500 three weeks later.

I am pretty sure they were hoping for the trade, but I changed that last minute. They kind of tried talking us out of it, but I knew what they were going to do!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Brian, I checked kbb a 2007 (75k miles) versus a 2010 (45k miles) with 10k/miles a year (high for me, I drive 6k maybe), difference in value for

Private Party Very Good
2007 $9288
2010 $13331

Suggested Retail
2007 $11562
2010 $15531; $12888 asking they haven't moved it in 60 days

Trade in very good
2007 $7282
2010 $11331

The problem is that I haven't found any yet private party. But I'm starting now to keep looking. Assuming I lose $4k on the trade in, I guess it might be worth it I have to consider it more.

Now I am tempted to follow river's advice about buying anything, I am open to it more. But I want to still limit it to "newer" used cars not beaters. Every dealer keeps talking about how the used market is hotter than ever and prices are staying higher than before. It sure does seem like it.

I would like something 5 years or newer.

[bjl584]

Brian, I checked kbb a 2007 (75k miles) versus a 2010 (45k miles) with 10k/miles a year (high for me, I drive 6k maybe), difference in value for

Private Party Very Good
2007 $9288
2010 $13331

Suggested Retail
2007 $11562
2010 $15531; $12888 asking they haven't moved it in 60 days

Trade in very good
2007 $7282
2010 $11331

The problem is that I haven't found any yet private party. But I'm starting now to keep looking. Assuming I lose $4k on the trade in, I guess it might be worth it I have to consider it more.

Now I am tempted to follow river's advice about buying anything, I am open to it more. But I want to still limit it to "newer" used cars not beaters. Every dealer keeps talking about how the used market is hotter than ever and prices are staying higher than before. It sure does seem like it.

I would like something 5 years or newer.

The problem with KBB is that they assume optimal conditions. They really don't consider lowball offers from private parties or dealerships playing with numbers on trades. But it is a decent ballpark figure. You will probably lose at least $2 to $4 thousand on this deal no matter which way you go. You will obviously do better if you sell to a private party. I would probably go that route. But, i know from experience that selling a car to a private party can take a while and be frustrating. Endless calls with no follow up. a lot of people kicking tires. And, a lot of potential buyers that just can't come up with the money. It makes you want to just trade it in and be done with it.

You can find tons of gently used cars 4 to 5 years old for good prices. The used car market is smoking hot, but the older you get with the cars, it starts to cool of considerably. You should be able to pick up something 4 or 5 years old for a good price that will be reliable and worry free for you for the next 3 years or so until you buy what you really want.

[thekid]

We updated our two cars last fall and sold both privately. What we did was list somewhere between dealer asking price and trade-in offer. This allowed us to list an attractive price and get alot of interest (which allowed us to actually chose our buyers...we required a good non recuperable cash down and quick sale). Then we did an "accomodation sale" with the dealers from whom we were buying new vehicles. Essentially, we sold the used car to the dealer at the price we agreed to with the third party and then the dealer immediately sold the car to said third party at the same price, saving us applicable sales taxes. Not sure if this works in your neck of the woods, but it's common practice here.

One thing to consider, we started out looking at 2-3 year old cars but with the used car market being hot it actually turned out cheaper (as in less yearly depreciation) to buy new when year end deals came around. This might also be something to look at.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Is it the dollar value of the car being sold? I sold my DH's car in 1 day on craigslist. Multiple offers I got full asking price of kbb private party sale very good condition. Actually I only met one guy the first emailer who ended up buying it. I figure selling my car the same way.

Never heard of selling a car to a dealer then to the 3rd party. Sold title and that was it.

But I noticed a depreciation hit of 15% to 30% for the cars I'm looking at. If it were cars that were lower depreciation then I'd buy new. I've looked at my DH's subaru is running higher than what we paid new, used 2 years old. But it's location dependent. Where we live subies are super popular, niche market.

Brian, thoughts on buying a 2007 or 2008 Mazda 5? Is it worth it? My problem again is that I haven't found any private party yet. I've been watching craigslist and nothing. Most of these are rental cars bought at auction. Looking at dealer prices the 2007 to 2008 are $11-12k but the 2010 are $13-14k. So I'm not sure it's worth buying something 2-3 years older for $2 to 3k less.

Now if I am willing to switch up my strategy and use River's, buy anything around $8k I think that might work. But targeting a specific car? Would it be worth it?

Thanks for all the rebounding ideas. I am really trying to not rush into buying anything hastily.

[bjl584]

Is it the dollar value of the car being sold? I sold my DH's car in 1 day on craigslist. Multiple offers I got full asking price of kbb private party sale very good condition. Actually I only met one guy the first emailer who ended up buying it. I figure selling my car the same way.

Never heard of selling a car to a dealer then to the 3rd party. Sold title and that was it.

But I noticed a depreciation hit of 15% to 30% for the cars I'm looking at. If it were cars that were lower depreciation then I'd buy new. I've looked at my DH's subaru is running higher than what we paid new, used 2 years old. But it's location dependent. Where we live subies are super popular, niche market.

Brian, thoughts on buying a 2007 or 2008 Mazda 5? Is it worth it? My problem again is that I haven't found any private party yet. I've been watching craigslist and nothing. Most of these are rental cars bought at auction. Looking at dealer prices the 2007 to 2008 are $11-12k but the 2010 are $13-14k. So I'm not sure it's worth buying something 2-3 years older for $2 to 3k less.

Now if I am willing to switch up my strategy and use River's, buy anything around $8k I think that might work. But targeting a specific car? Would it be worth it?

Thanks for all the rebounding ideas. I am really trying to not rush into buying anything hastily.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 2007 or 2008 Mazda IF it were in good condition and had a clean history. Have you looked on Autotrader.com at all? Awesome resource for car shopping. Lots of private parties too. It may be worth a shot. The trick would be to find a private party seller. You will most certainly save over buying from a dealer. The difference from private party vs dealer for that year range is probably more significant than comparing dealer prices only.

You could do as River said and by anything for $8K. But, you seem dead set on the Mazda. An 8K Mazda would probably be too old for your liking. You are going to get hit with depreciation no matter which way you go. There are certain cars that won't depreciate as much. Diesels hold their value much longer than their gas counterparts for instance.

Do some searching on Autotrader and see what going rates for Mazdas are from private party. That may help you to decide if buying an older car would be worth it.

[bjl584]

I just checked auto trader. There are 5 private party sellers within 200 miles of me selling 07 and 08 Mazda5's. Price range is between 9 and 12K.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

3 cars private party within 200 miles. 2010 for $15.5k 187 miles, 2008 $11.5k 193 miles, 2007 $9.8k 174 miles. This could be difficult to manage solely because driving that far 2-3 hours to check it out before even making an offer, I am nervous doing it. A new car maybe, but a used car? Thoughts? Would you or did you?

No I am wondering if I should be flexible and just set a price point and see what comes up? Go to a dealership and just look at what's available?

[frugalgirl]

Frgualgirl how much below sticker did you get? How did you negotiate? What sort of price to KBB did you get?

I found that the car #1 I looked at has been on the lot 60 days and typically they try to move it within 30-45. They dropped the price supposedly this weekend by $1k to move it faster. Not sure if that's true or not. When I said I had to think about it and talk with my DH they said they can't guarantee it wouldn't be taken back to auction or sold at that price.

Ugh, I hate trying to get out of car dealerships.

Well, the dealer lowered the price after I let them know via email that the best deal for me would win my business. That was my negotiating - just telling the dealers that I had more than one option and I wanted their best price. This dealer gave me what I felt was the best price and it had the lowest mileage. He lowered the price by $500 - $900 -- I just can't remember the details. The price I got was close to kbb but it was lower. The car had low mileage so I expected to pay right at kbb value. I also traded a car and got the high end of the kbb for that so my situation was a little different from yours.

[bjl584]

3 cars private party within 200 miles. 2010 for $15.5k 187 miles, 2008 $11.5k 193 miles, 2007 $9.8k 174 miles. This could be difficult to manage solely because driving that far 2-3 hours to check it out before even making an offer, I am nervous doing it. A new car maybe, but a used car? Thoughts? Would you or did you?

No I am wondering if I should be flexible and just set a price point and see what comes up? Go to a dealership and just look at what's available?

I think you will have much more success if you are more flexible with used cars. Set a price point as you said. Say, all used vans 2008 or newer being sold by private owners for 10K or less within 200 miles of you. You will get dozens of hits that way.

[thekid]

reliability of a make is very important to me as it affects out of warranty ownerhip costs (higher maintenance is money like sale price is money) and it's a hassle to have an unreliable car. I usually research cars first, then narrow in on a few that I would buy. I've found that expected reliability corrolates well with resale prices, so if you shop category wide based solely on price, you may be taking a large relability hit.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

That I can't deal with. I'd like a used car that has minimal repairs for 2-3 years. Something like what I have now. Just oil changes, tire rotations, etc. Nothing major.

I think 200 miles is a lot to drive for a used car I still have to take to a mechanic and then think about. I'm not sure it's a wise move to drive 200 miles then pretty much guarantee buying a car? Am I wrong?

All the Mazda5 private parties being sold are 150+ miles away. That's a conservative 2.5 hour drive for a maybe deal. What if they did smoke but lied about it? I won't drive a car that's been smoked in. Deal breaker I'm extremely sensitive. But how do you know except going to see it?

I ask because I do want to hear how far people drive for used cars, if they do drive between 100 and 200 miles, how the managed it and what they did to have it checked out and being unsure when you drive out to buy a used car that far?

[thekid]

I live in a big city, so farthest i've gone is suburbs. The offer is enough in and around the city that i didn't have to go very far. Hypothetically, how far would I go really depends on the deal. It has to be a couple thousand less (all else being equal) for me to "invest" the time required to drive out there. I may have been more flexible when I was younger/had more time/had less money. Really depends on you.

If there are no Mazda5 in your area, have you checked for close comparables? Have you tried a Mazda5? Comparables have differences that matter to me and I have preferences. Personally, I'd try out a few comparables and then look at used market for makes that you like/fit your needs.

[bjl584]

That I can't deal with. I'd like a used car that has minimal repairs for 2-3 years. Something like what I have now. Just oil changes, tire rotations, etc. Nothing major.

I think 200 miles is a lot to drive for a used car I still have to take to a mechanic and then think about. I'm not sure it's a wise move to drive 200 miles then pretty much guarantee buying a car? Am I wrong?

All the Mazda5 private parties being sold are 150+ miles away. That's a conservative 2.5 hour drive for a maybe deal. What if they did smoke but lied about it? I won't drive a car that's been smoked in. Deal breaker I'm extremely sensitive. But how do you know except going to see it?

I ask because I do want to hear how far people drive for used cars, if they do drive between 100 and 200 miles, how the managed it and what they did to have it checked out and being unsure when you drive out to buy a used car that far?

I've driven an hour for a used car. I saw pictures and talked with the owner asking as many questions as I could. In the end, I just had to make the drive and see it for myself. I know a decent amount about cars, so i was able to check it out and drive it and know it was a good car. There really is no way around seeing it in person.