Family Finally Refusing to Bail Out My Sister

[papa_squat]

I have a problem that I’m sure many of you have heard about time and time again from someone you know, but I need to get it off my chest a bit. I have a family member who is perpetually mooching off of other family members.

The family member in question is my older sister and my only sibling. She just turned 30 and I am 27.

The reason it is a problem now is because it has reached a crisis-level: all family members (as of this week) have cut her off because they can barely afford their own necessities, and she is now on her own for the first time ever. The situation has affected our family dynamic for years and I’m at my wits end, but worried for her future.

My sister has been dubbed the “problem child” since age 15 when my parent divorced. While I’m not a saint, I have no criminal record, did well in school and have not asked my parents for money since I graduated high school (not that they haven’t helped). My sister had some run-ins with the law (shoplifting, pot, domestic dispute with my stepmother) in her late teens, but relatively cleaned up her act in college to become a social worker. However, social workers don’t make enough money to support her choice of lifestyle (designer clothes and purses, expensive vacations and eating out every night), which she likely picked up from my parent’s lifestyle before their divorce. Also, she always has some crisis (car wreck, threating calls from collection agencies, or a job loss) where she calls up my family and they give her money. She’s bailed out, no lesson learned. I have never given my sister money and she has never asked for money (out of pride, I suspect).

Growing up, my sister and I had the usual sibling rivalry of competing for our parents’ attention, but since I moved away from my hometown after college, I’ve given up the act and she hasn’t. But now she’s started taking things to an extreme. Since I got married last year, she won’t return my phone calls or try to contact me. She complains about my life being “disgustingly perfect” and attributes any good fortune of mine to my “perfect husband” or to “kissing my boss’s ass,” when really I work hard at a good job in my field and my husband and I manage our money well. Of course I don’t hear any of this from her. I hear it from my parents.

My father bailed my sister out quite a bit when she was younger, but my father—not being too savvy with finances himself—stopped directly giving her money when my sister flunked out of an expensive private university and defaulted on the student loan he got a friend to cosign (my father had declared bankruptcy a year or two before this; I said he's not finacially savvy). This mortally embarrassed him and ruined the friendship, and since then my father has taken on the burden of the loan (all $30k of it).

My mother—also financially crippled after the divorce and my father filing for bankruptcy shortly after—has been my sister’s primary provider the last 10 years. My mother empowered herself after the divorce with finance classes and she’s become quite knowledgeable, but she’s barely been able to save for her own retirement because my sister continues to struggle. My grandmother has also been backing my mother to pay my sister, which took the situation to a level I could not ignore about 3 years back when my sister moved in an unemployed, alcoholic boyfriend and I verbally laid into my sister about what a financial burden she is to the family.

Things got better between us when I got engaged and made her my maid of honor. We talked frequently about wedding plans and we had great bonding experience over the wedding. My sister is unmarried though, and often lamented that she should have been celebrating her own wedding. After the wedding was over, my sister hit many pitfalls while I have done well.

She was accused of having an inappropriate relationship with one of her clients (a high school student) and was fired for it. She has denied any sexual relationship, but freely admits that she made friends with the boy’s mother and younger siblings, hangs out at their house frequently and even sleeps over there when the mother is not there (claiming she babysits the younger siblings). She found employment , but was fired after two days, presuming the rumor was discovered. She was unemployed for six months and supported by my grandmother during that time. She was hired again at another job, worked for less than two months, and then was fired for vague reasons.

After my sister was hired at the last job, an agreement was made between my mother and grandmother that they would no longer financially support my sister (mainly due to the 30th birthday and because my mother knew about the situation with the high school kid, but also because my mother and grandmother can no longer afford to). My sister asked my father for money earlier this week and he was actually about to help her until she revealed she actually owed the unemployment office $600 for not notifying them when she was hired the last time. So for the first time ever, she is on her own. This time presumably for good.

I am mostly venting here, but I’m also worried for my sister. I’m glad my parents finally stopped enabling her, but I’m worried what will happen now that she has no one to bail her out. I also wish I had a better relationship with my sister, but if she asks me for money, I will have to say no, and she may never forgive me or understand. Is there anyone out there with a similar situation? What would you do if you were in my shoes? She has never listened to any of my financial advice before, but I don't even know what I would tell her now.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

As a social worker, your sister will know most of the resources out there that can keep her alive in the worst of times. She knows where to go to be housed, to be fed, to seek work, to seek counsel (which it sounds like she needs), to be treated for drug/alcohol problems (which it sounds like she may also have).

Yes, many of us will have had family members who are so exasperating, so irresponsible. We cannot fix it in them any more than you can fix it in your sister. But she might be able to fix it herself. Maybe. I imagine she knows what to do.

[creditcardfree]

Yes. Many of us have a story similar to this. I agree with Joan, she knows what resources are available to her for true help. She will need to struggle and hit her rock bottom before she starts to make her own way in the world...just like the rest of us.

Don't give her money. It's okay to give advice and guide. It's up to her to listen and ask questions. Be supportive of positive actions, but stay out of the way when she makes bad decisions, she needs to learn from those on her own.

[papa_squat]

Thanks to you both. No doubts she knows what she could and should do at this point, but I seriously doubt she'll take it anytime soon. She'll likely file for unemployment again, but she'll definitely not get a payment until the $600 to them is cancelled out, so probably at least two weeks. She doesn't have any credit cards and likely can't get one in her credit's condition, so she'll likely have to go a little while without any short-term solutions. My mother is already talking about giving her money and I encourage her to wait and at least see what happens. My sister is a strong, smart person but she is beyond stubborn. I doubt she has a drug problem; alcohol may be a factor, but it would be pretty obvious as she's not good at keeping secrets.

She also can't always connect the cause and effect of her problems (says the universe is out to get her, God hates her, or these things just happen to her) but I think there's little she can deny at this point. I do think this is probably her rock bottom, but I only hope I'm right. My mother is seriously up at night about all this.

[cschin4]

First, i am sure it frustrating to all around her. It is difficult to watch someone make a train wreck of their lives. I am not sure there is any advice that you could give her about finances. But, is it possible that she is has some mental health issues? That she is really trying on some level but simply cannot? Has she ever been worked up for ADD or depression or anything like that? She may want to help herself but simply not have the tools to be able to do so. And, yes, you might think she would have the insight for that being a social worker but people often do not have insight into themselves. I think the best advice would be that you care about her as a human being and your sister and you see the path she is going down and you want her to consider getting help.
As for support, there might be some instances i would give her money. I just don't think i could stand by and let my family member live under a bridge. I think there are times to intervene if you feel it in your heart to do so.

As for what your parents do or don't do, i would stay out of that completely. Their finances are purely their business alone. And, if they choose to fritter away their money for her, that is completely their money, their choice and neither should you take any offense if they do so.

[mom-from-missouri]

I agree with Joan. I too have a family member like this. All cut her off except for one, who probably will never cut her off, even though she is now owed over $8000 from her that she will never see.

[papa_squat]

First, i am sure it frustrating to all around her. It is difficult to watch someone make a train wreck of their lives. I am not sure there is any advice that you could give her about finances. But, is it possible that she is has some mental health issues? That she is really trying on some level but simply cannot? Has she ever been worked up for ADD or depression or anything like that? She may want to help herself but simply not have the tools to be able to do so. And, yes, you might think she would have the insight for that being a social worker but people often do not have insight into themselves. I think the best advice would be that you care about her as a human being and your sister and you see the path she is going down and you want her to consider getting help.
As for support, there might be some instances i would give her money. I just don't think I could stand by and let my family member live under a bridge. I think there are times to intervene if you feel it in your heart to do so.

As for what your parents do or don't do, i would stay out of that completely. Their finances are purely their business alone. And, if they choose to fritter away their money for her, that is completely their money, their choice and neither should you take any offense if they do so.

She has been diagnosed with depression in the past and she likes to tell people that she is bipolar and has ADD, but to know knowledge she's never been diagnosed with these professionally. My mother has already talked to her about her mental health and apparently did give her money to refill an antidepressant prescription, but no telling if that's what it was really for. My mother has always had access to her accounts, so she checks everynow and then for activity. She's still spending money, but it's not clear now where the her cash deposits are coming from.

I have considered offering for her to come live with me and try to find a job here, but she likely wouldn't take it because we live across the country and my husband is not crazy about this idea anyway. He believes it would put us in the middle of her emotinal storm and that she wouldn't have incentive to find a job if she has a heated house full of food avaiable to her until we're ready to kick her out.

[papa_squat]

I agree with Joan. I too have a family member like this. All cut her off except for one, who probably will never cut her off, even though she is now owed over $8000 from her that she will never see.

My sister owes my parents and my grandmother tens of thousands of dollars apiece; so much it makes me sick to my stomach. They will likely never see it back, but we are all desperately hoping my sister will "get it" sometime and if nothing else be grateful for all the help they've given her and at least try to manage her own finances in the future.

My mother did give her a little money, but said she's not helping anymore. We're still waiting to see what happens at the end of the month when all her bills come due, so we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've tried to contact her with text messages and little votes of encouragement here and there, but she isn't responding to me lately.

[LuckyRobin]

You know, the first thing I thought when I read this was that your sister sounds like someone with rapid cycling bi-polar disorder or possibly high functioning schizophrenia, though I'm leaning towards the former. If you do take her in, I'd seriiously have her investigate these mental health issues if she has not. I've seen firsthand what bi-polar can do to a person's ability to hold a job or keep control over their finances and it really sounds like your sister's behavior.

[photo]

My sister owes my parents and my grandmother tens of thousands of dollars apiece; so much it makes me sick to my stomach. They will likely never see it back, but we are all desperately hoping my sister will "get it" sometime

Regardless of whether your sister's problem stem from mental issues or simple irresponsibility, what is her impetus to change?

How is the last time you bailed her out different from any other time? She knows that if she fails, someone else will pay. You're enabling her to live without responsibility, or if her actions are the result of mental illness, then the family is just delaying her realization for need for treatment.

[Saveyourlife]

my take on this

I have a slightly different perspective on this because i WAS your sister for the longest time in my life until i was 26.

It took a long time to stand on my own two feet and there is no doubt that your sister is experiencing some form of depression (situation-based or genetic..doesn't matter..she needs to get out of it).

My family supported me in every way while i struggled to finish school after getting kicked out of it once. They were there for me emotionally and financially, yet i just couldn't pull myself up from rock bottom. I would have been homeless and never amounted to anything if it wasn't for my family's patience (including pain, blood, tears).

One thing my family made me do and paid for was for me to go to behavioral therapy/counselor (not psychiatrist or psychologist). This therapy sessions forced me to do daily re-enforcing exercises that forced me to become active in life than passive. I had to change my mind from a victim's point of view to someone who has some control over life (one can't hope to do a flip switch and become someone who has all the control over life right away).

My advice to you and your family is : Do not give her money into her hands but give her a place to stay/sleep, give her food, give her encouragement. Don't just say "you should do this you should do that" Give her a concrete path and resources. I know she's a social worker but she's not going to budge in the right direction. She's old enough to know better, yes. But some of us take longer.

She may need to be medicated slightly but for me, behavioral change helped tremendously. She may have relaspes.

How i got out of rock bottom: I stayed At my parent’s house with free room and board until I was able to find a stable job. Continued to stay while earning money at their house for two more years, allowing me to save up money enough for a downpayment on a house. Bought the house by age 28. I have been fully independent since then. Changed to another job shortly after which paid more and has more stability. Has been here since then and I’m now 34. I am now actually a supervisor at my job. Engaged and saving up hopefully to buy another condo/house for rental income. I take pride in being able to take my family out for a small vacation or dinners or nights out.

You may feel that it’s unfair for your sister to get a lot more treatment than you. My siblings sure felt that way I am sure but they were there for me disapproving or not. They made sure that I knew that they needed/wanted me to succeed; Helping me study (I know at that old age even), helping me practice my interviews, going over various situations of handling myself in a work place, etc. They never once reminded me to feel shameful that I’m not being like other people my age. They said that we cannot change the past but we can change the future from now on. I know it’s asking a lot.

Noone asked me for money back for all those years. I am determined however to support my parents when they retire until they die.

I hope you have luck with your sister. I am grateful for the way my sister and my brother treated me (like a worthy person.. not a failure) the entire journey. It takes extraordinary patience and time and resources to help save a life.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Saveyourlife I really like that story and it gives many people with family members in need a much needed success.

[papa_squat]

I have a slightly different perspective on this because i WAS your sister for the longest time in my life until i was 26.

It took a long time to stand on my own two feet and there is no doubt that your sister is experiencing some form of depression (situation-based or genetic..doesn't matter..she needs to get out of it).

My family supported me in every way while i struggled to finish school after getting kicked out of it once. They were there for me emotionally and financially, yet i just couldn't pull myself up from rock bottom. I would have been homeless and never amounted to anything if it wasn't for my family's patience (including pain, blood, tears).

One thing my family made me do and paid for was for me to go to behavioral therapy/counselor (not psychiatrist or psychologist). This therapy sessions forced me to do daily re-enforcing exercises that forced me to become active in life than passive. I had to change my mind from a victim's point of view to someone who has some control over life (one can't hope to do a flip switch and become someone who has all the control over life right away).

My advice to you and your family is : Do not give her money into her hands but give her a place to stay/sleep, give her food, give her encouragement. Don't just say "you should do this you should do that" Give her a concrete path and resources. I know she's a social worker but she's not going to budge in the right direction. She's old enough to know better, yes. But some of us take longer.

She may need to be medicated slightly but for me, behavioral change helped tremendously. She may have relaspes.

How i got out of rock bottom: I stayed At my parent’s house with free room and board until I was able to find a stable job. Continued to stay while earning money at their house for two more years, allowing me to save up money enough for a downpayment on a house. Bought the house by age 28. I have been fully independent since then. Changed to another job shortly after which paid more and has more stability. Has been here since then and I’m now 34. I am now actually a supervisor at my job. Engaged and saving up hopefully to buy another condo/house for rental income. I take pride in being able to take my family out for a small vacation or dinners or nights out.

You may feel that it’s unfair for your sister to get a lot more treatment than you. My siblings sure felt that way I am sure but they were there for me disapproving or not. They made sure that I knew that they needed/wanted me to succeed; Helping me study (I know at that old age even), helping me practice my interviews, going over various situations of handling myself in a work place, etc. They never once reminded me to feel shameful that I’m not being like other people my age. They said that we cannot change the past but we can change the future from now on. I know it’s asking a lot.

Noone asked me for money back for all those years. I am determined however to support my parents when they retire until they die.

I hope you have luck with your sister. I am grateful for the way my sister and my brother treated me (like a worthy person.. not a failure) the entire journey. It takes extraordinary patience and time and resources to help save a life.

Save Your Life, thank you so much for sharing your story. I appreciate the perspective because my sister talks to me so little these days, so it's easy for me to forget what kind of internal struggle she must be going through. Other than the one big fight we had a few years back, I haven't criticized her directly for her financial issues, but a few months back I did warn her that our mother can't afford to be support anyone other than herself right now, but it my have been why she doesn't call me anymore.

I hope she does seek out counseling, but I think she would take it as a tremendous insult if I recommended counseling to her. My mother suggests I not give her any advice, believing she may only do the opposite. I hate the helpless feeling, but I will try to be supportive if she calls me; I just hate feeling like I could give her advice knowing that she bloody well wont take it.

[papa_squat]

Regardless of whether your sister's problem stem from mental issues or simple irresponsibility, what is her impetus to change?

How is the last time you bailed her out different from any other time? She knows that if she fails, someone else will pay. You're enabling her to live without responsibility, or if her actions are the result of mental illness, then the family is just delaying her realization for need for treatment.

Photo, you hit the nail on the head. I had a conversation about this with my mother last week when she revealed that she is still helping my sister with her rent (only $100 per month, but essentially she has NOT cut her off). My mother justified that she agreed to pay it several months ago when my sister was still employed so she could afford an apartment in a nicer neighborhood with a backyard for her dog, and that my mother wasn't going to renege on that due to the job loss. The point I made is that if my sister really wanted to get a better place for her dog, she would pay for it herself and sacrifice a luxury like going to the movies to do it. There were several times in my broke-college-student days where I had to do the same thing to pay my rent. By paying that amount for her, my mother takes the need to make the responsible decision out of my sister's hands.

I think my mother felt I was lecturing her, because she then justified that she pays $150 per month on one of my student loans each month, so it's only fair that she help my sister (she doesn't pay on my sister's loans because my father pays most of them; the rest are in forbearance while my sister is unemployed). This hurt.... and it actually pissed me off, too, because both of my parents pay $150 (their arrangement because they liquidated my college fund during their divorce) and I pay the remaining $220 per month in an agreement that no one has once criticised and I have never defaulted on that responsibility.

I decided that if my mother is going to justify enabling my sister because she helps me with my student loans, I'm going to relieve her of that responsibility. She pays toward my private student loan, which I'm due to pay off within the next two years anyway, so I will take that over and I'll work to pay it off in full by this summer. Then I will apply that monthly payment to the balance of my stafford loan--the one my dad pays--to show them both how their irresponsibity motivated me to be a responsible adult while it nutures my sister to remain a child. I won't tell them that because I'm a nice person, but that's honestly how I feel.

[DebbieL]

You know, the first thing I thought when I read this was that your sister sounds like someone with rapid cycling bi-polar disorder or possibly high functioning schizophrenia, though I'm leaning towards the former. If you do take her in, I'd seriiously have her investigate these mental health issues if she has not. I've seen firsthand what bi-polar can do to a person's ability to hold a job or keep control over their finances and it really sounds like your sister's behavior.

Agreed 100%.