Estates and Headaches

[SnoopyCool]

After a long battle with illness, DHs father passed away, and left DH as executor of his will. The will states that everything will be split between DH and his sibling, including the house. Will states that house should be sold and proceeds split, if any, after obligations satisfied.

The house must be sold to satisfy a mortgage.

All of DH's father's personal belongings need to be sorted between the two, and either donated or kept. The problem is that DH feels his sibling will not work with him to go through belongings and get house ready to sell. I realize that sibling may not be ready to handle the emotional impact of this process. It impacts DH, too, but he is of the mindset to get this completed and move on. The idea of having to pay for this house is overwhelming to DH. His father did leave enough cash to cover the mortgage and expenses for a few months - possibly to the end of the year, since electricity is scarcely used. But this house is going into a market that isn't friendly to a seller. If it helps, the mortgage is valued at just under 40% of current house value.

I also believe that DH is worried because he and his sibling have two different views on money and responsibility. For instance, recently sibling spoke of not paying a certain bill of his for several months because he didn’t care or it slipped his mind. Also, when DH brings up certain things about bills for the estate, sibling replies that there is $X in their father’s bank account, so they’re good (both are on this account, as well). Sibling did pay the bills for awhile while their father was in the hospital, but didn’t keep a ledger on checks written, again, because there is “plenty of money in the bank”. However, sibling did pay all of the bills during that time. DH now has this responsibility.

Have you been here before? What advice do you have towards a solution that will respect sibling and DH? Selling the house is imperative, as neither DH or sibling can maintain two mortgages. I believe this is why DH is feeling the strain of a time crunch. He is not sure of what to do to move forward from this point.

[frugalgirl]

I have been in a similar but not exactly the same situation. First, your DH is the executor which means he is the one that has to get this estate settled. This also means that he is in control despite his sibling's lack of urgency.

I went through my parents' house and got rid of things that I knew my sibling would not want and ANYTHING that I was even remotely unsure about whether he would want I put aside for him to look at later. My sibling was also reluctant so I took charge, sorted through everything, told him what I'd like to have, and had him inspect everything I took. I gave him a deadline for going through the things I set aside for him. Anything that was not "claimed" by him was given away after the deadline (and a "this is your last chance" phone call). I told him when I'd be sorting and then called him frequently to consult with him while I sorted to make sure he would be okay with certain decisions that I'd made. He respected my need to get this process done even though he did not want to actively help or make quick decisions himself.

I found it far easier to go through these things immediately after my parent's death. Things that I had saved "just in case" were much harder to see and go through months and years later. The emotional toll was worse the longer things hung around. Get the estate settled ASAP. If the sibling won't help, don't force them to. Just keep them informed and do it yourself.

[snafu]

Sorry for the loss of FIL. Being Executor of an estate is hard work and time consuming. DH needs to note time devoted to those duties and collect compensation from the estate.

Since the housing market is so awful just now, would it be cost efficient and practical to rent the house? Rent charged would need to cover mortgage, property tax, insurance, yard care etc. Clothes can go to Goodwill type charity outlet for a tax deduction. Housewares and furniture can be sold on Craig'sList, Kijji.com+ name of city [local e-bay], or consigned to an auction house or those ladies that do Estate Sales if DH finds it too painful to listen to people make disparaging remarks and dickering for discounts of his dad's household stuff.

When our mom passed, the executor [eldest brother] invited us all to choose what we wanted. If there was any dispute, there was a procedure to follow. Our attempt at a yard sale of household goods was a disaster. I hated having people paw through stuff my mom loved. We sent everything to auction which worked out well.

[cschin4]

Call an auctioneer and auction off the estate contents. Have DH go through and take whatever is of sentimental value, but otherwise, let the rest go. Then, clean the house and sell it and split the proceeds and be done with it. Anything other than that is going to drag it on, prolong and promote hard feelings.

[cschin4]

I would not rent the house. It will become a financial hardship and liability. And, expecting the other sib to help go through items may be unrealistic. Sorting through a lifetime of stuff is a big project and not everyone has the time or inclination to do this. Thus i recommend an auctioneer. Don't try to hold on to things or you will prolong these issues.

[SnoopyCool]

Thank you for the advice. The auctioneer sounds like a good idea. I'll mention that to him.

[mcfroggin]

Don't auctioneers take a portion of all sales? I would try to sell-off any big ticket items first. It might be more work, but DH may get much more money by doing this himself.

It all comes down to whether he just wants to get this over with or whether he wants to maximize the inheritance.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to grieve or need more time to go through personal effects. Maybe I'm in the wrong. But it's a personal issue.

First, if the mortgage is 40% of the home, then I would let it got for at least a month and let the sibling have some time to grieve. There is cash apparently to carry the mortgage until the end of the year.

Yes it's money, but is money worth destroying a relationship with a sibling? If it is, then fine move forward without trying to put yourself into the siblings shoes and see that perhaps for them they need more time.

And if your FIL left cash to carry the mortgage for a bit then not a big deal. I also know you can call the mortgage company and property taxes and explain that he died, and you are in the process of selling the home. You can submit the death certificate. So explain that you would be interested in perhaps having the mortgage just accrue more interest and payments if it is necessary to carry it longer than a couple of months.

They likely will do it especially if the mortgage is less than 40% of the value. Also when it's time to sell, price it very competitively, meaning low, then it'll sell faster.

People aren't all black and white with death and maybe the sibling needs a little time. I can say this because my mom spent 2 years greiving her father's passing and spent a lot of money not being able to sell the house he lived in that she owned 100%.

And she is a very good person, pays all her bills, etc. But she is very emotional and couldn't let go of anything. I pushed and she told me she couldn't. $300k by the way was the value of the home sitting there and her paying maintenance and property taxes. But she wasn't ready. And she was a social worker and said that people process at different paces and you sometimes have to go with it.

I'm not saying give your sibling 2 years, but a couple of months to process and grieve might not be terrible.

If your FIL wanted it settled then he should have sold his home before death, unless it was an accident. He should have asked the kids what they wanted then given it or notated it in a will.

This is also something I am pressing my parents to do. They do not want to do and I dread the day they die. And my Dad is 80. So it's not like the clock isn't ticking as much as I love him. I would love for them to settle stuff.

With my mom the way she is, I'll be handling the estate while dealing with someone unable to let go. So yes I empathize, but I also think some of it can be handled prior to death if it's that imperative. For me personally with 3 half sibs I think it is important. But maybe my mom will realize that before it's too late.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I just read long illness. Why didn't your FIL settle the estate and have the home ready for sale during the illness? Why did he not ask the kisd what they wanted? Then arrange that everything else be disposed off asap if you are in a rush?

[97guns]

do an estate sale on a nice weekend, advertise on craigslist and let everyone rummage through the house. all the leftovers get tossed and your ready to sell. you wont need to hire an auctioneer, you and dh can do it

[snafu]

LivingAlmostLarge offers us all a major *heads up* to make some changes. Crystal balls are foggy; we don't know what challenges life will throw at us. Make a will to guide the Executor. Get paper work in order, keep legal, contracts, current paperwork orderly. Purge the 80% of useless paper work that clogs all the flat surfaces and storage. Dump clothes that are wrecked, ruined, stained, ripped,worn out, torn, missing buttons, broken zippers etc. Sell, consign or donate clothes that you don't like, don't wear, don't fit, too small/large, not flattering or down right ugly. Those are sunk costs, forgive yourself for the mistake and move on.

Walk through room-by-room, and ask yourself if you love and enjoy all the tchtockes/souvenirs. If not, sell or give them to others to enjoy. What would the Executor of your Estate do? Your most valuable asset is a written, comprehensive Financial Plan.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Am I the only one in the camp that perhaps the sib isn't ready to sell yet? Is it wrong to not be ready immediately?

[SnoopyCool]

LAL - I don't know if it is wrong not to be ready immediately, perhaps not. I failed to mention in my earlier post that both DH and sib. want to get rid of the house as soon as they can.

The extension of this situation is that the stress that DH is feeling from it is seeping into our home. That is not going to fly, at all. My reason for asking advice on this board was to help him move the process along. I don't wish that he fight with his sib, but it is much more important that this stuff stays out of our house, with our kids. He has a real need to finish this process and move on. If sib. is being genuine in that he wants to get rid of the house, too, then it is time to move on it. All-in-all, there needs to be a sit-down with sib; a heart-to-heart. They love each other and can work this out. I may have been too brazen in stating that sib. doesn't handle finances well. It is just a concern of DHs.

I do think this is a great lesson to DH and to me as far as getting our house in order. I do not want this for my kids. Before this, I thought a will would handle everything in a nice, neat package. I was wrong. LAL and Snafu make excellent points... get your affairs in order.

Ahhhh....

So, we found a second-hand furniture store that has agreed to look at the furniture. Both DH and sib. think this is the best idea. One step at a time until it is done, I suppose.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Nope I used to think that too. But more thought leads me to thinking you should write down who gets what or ASK the kids what they may want. You don't have to give it that second, but sometimes i wish people would address their "valuables" realistically and just do it. I think a lot of things my parents have are ridiculous and stupid. Yes stupid. But my mom actually thinks it's valuable and wants to pass it on. I have no desire for it, so keep telling her to ask and give it to someone who will value it (relative) or sell it.

Trust me a lot of these items people will never use. I have already told her when I next move I would love to get her china since I don't have any and I like her pattern.

[sandrark]

We went through this when DH's granny died in 2009.

We had a "whole house sorting" weekend date about three months after she died. Everyone claimed (and took away) anything that they wanted on that weekend. Then MIL engaged a realtor and put the house on the market As Is. In November.

The house finally sold 6 months later, for about 20% less than originally planned.

In our case, MIL was trying to get the house sold ASAP because DH's brother needed the money. So she fire-saled it.

MIL still has half her house devoted to the STUFF that the grandparents collected for 30+ years in that house. Old, worn things - cheap picture frames. Dishes. Furniture that's "worth something because they're antiques!" Sewing materials. Multiple sewing machines. Clothing. Holiday decorations. Lamps. She's had a couple of garage sales, and very little has sold (what can I say? Most of the stuff was cheap and ugly, and the grandparents had bought it at yard sales themselves!) For the furniture (including the one item that was worth some money, a Hammond B3 organ) we contacted a furniture broker, and MIL blanched at a 20% consignment fee.

MIL also missed the deadline for filing the taxes; no idea what the penalties are for that, but we warned her that she needed to do it.

Ugh. Not a pretty process.

Sandi