Privatizing Social Security

[EEinNJ]

The problem with idealogues such as Constitutionalists is they get hung up on principle, on how THEY think things "should" be, and ignore reality and facts which contradicts this.

Saying Social Security is broke, or mismanaged, are opinions, not facts, and the GAO says differently.

Saying SS should be privatized conveniently ignores the recent history of what happened to the US and global financial systems, when financial firms profited on a debt bubble and the US Gov't. got stuck with cleaning up the mess. Would you really want the gov't. to hand the keys to any portion of your retirement income to the likes of Goldman Sachs, AIG, Bank of America, Citibank, etc?

[feh]

The problem with idealogues such as Constitutionalists is they get hung up on principle, on how THEY think things "should" be, and ignore reality and facts which contradicts this.

Saying Social Security is broke, or mismanaged, are opinions, not facts, and the GAO says differently.

Saying SS should be privatized conveniently ignores the recent history of what happened to the US and global financial systems, when financial firms profited on a debt bubble and the US Gov't. got stuck with cleaning up the mess. Would you really want the gov't. to hand the keys to any portion of your retirement income to the likes of Goldman Sachs, AIG, Bank of America, Citibank, etc?

[littleroc02us]

The problem with idealogues such as Constitutionalists is they get hung up on principle, on how THEY think things "should" be, and ignore reality and facts which contradicts this.

Saying Social Security is broke, or mismanaged, are opinions, not facts, and the GAO says differently.

Saying SS should be privatized conveniently ignores the recent history of what happened to the US and global financial systems, when financial firms profited on a debt bubble and the US Gov't. got stuck with cleaning up the mess. Would you really want the gov't. to hand the keys to any portion of your retirement income to the likes of Goldman Sachs, AIG, Bank of America, Citibank, etc?

Your wrong, because FDR didn't mean for it to turn into IOU's did he? There isn't enough money in there to pay everyone out and eventually they will have to raise the age requirements. For those of you who are relying on SS for your retirement, good luck! Never will I rely on the govt to plan my retirement, I'm going to be my own financial planner.

[kork13]

Say what you will about Social Security but it is NOT CHARITY WORK! You pay into the system and you get out of it related to what you earn over time. A charity is when you donate money to people and the gain is that these people get something they couldn't have afforded. If you want to donate to charity - good on you - but there is nothing charitable about Social Security!

I realize that SS and Medicare are not actually charities, that line of thought was just based on cooliemae's idea that it's a benefit for those who can't take care of themselves, not necessarily to provide a direct benefit to myself. Basically, a charity--I give money to help other people but don't get any tangible benefit from it. Because as I said earlier, i truly doubt that I'll ever see a dime from them even though I pay into them with every paycheck. The programs are on the way to bankruptcy and unaffordability on the part of both the government and individuals. I'm 24 y/o, and by the time I qualify for either of them, I am convinced they either won't exist, or they will be meaningless/unaffordable and I'll have to rely entirely on my savings anyway.

[maat55]

Personally, I have no faith in most social programs like social security and the like. No one cares more about your success, happiness, comfort, and safety than yourself. I would never trust someone else to "ensure" my future for me. I pay into social security and medicare to stay out of jail. But if I had the option not to, I'd drop it in a heartbeat and actually use the money productively, since I'm nearly assured of never receiving any benefit from either program (or most any other social program). Why is that? Because I'm a responsible, productive member of society. Remarkable, isn't it?

[/soapbox]

Do you invest in mutual funds? I'm sure a qualified mandated 401k system would offer low cost investments.

Perosnally, I would rather make those choices myself, but a mandated private system is far better than letting Congress get their hands on the money.

[maat55]

[QUOTE]

The problem with idealogues such as Constitutionalists is they get hung up on principle, on how THEY think things "should" be, and ignore reality and facts which contradicts this.

Name one of these principles i'm hung up on.

Saying Social Security is broke, or mismanaged, are opinions, not facts, and the GAO says differently.

Fact: SS has run in the red the last two years.
Fact: SS has had to raise its taxes from 2% to 12.4%.
Fact: IOU's are not assets, they are promises.

Because they did not hold, let alone invest these funds, future generations are going to have to make up the difference for expenses made in our generation.

SS funds have been used to cover up over spending in Washington for years. You might as well go buy yourself a new car and leave the payments for your grandchildren.

Saying SS should be privatized conveniently ignores the recent history of what happened to the US and global financial systems, when financial firms profited on a debt bubble and the US Gov't. got stuck with cleaning up the mess. Would you really want the gov't. to hand the keys to any portion of your retirement income to the likes of Goldman Sachs, AIG, Bank of America, Citibank, etc?

How about Fidelity, Vanguard and T. Rowe Price? Yet, I am to put my faith in a government that has squandered 3 trillion in SS funds, is printing dollars out of style and has racked up 14+ trillion in debt? I'm supposed to be happy with giving over 12.4% of my lifes earnings for a poverty level check each month? This is the same government that is largely responsible for the housing bubble that led to the financial crisis.

IMO, you should be welcome to trust in SS for yourself, and I should be free to invest for myself. But if we are to have a mandated system, I want one where the government has no access to the money.

[Mjenn]

Except that people are collecting SS - despite people having beaten the same drum you are beating for years -
And the money in SS are not just IOU's they are government bonds - which have been remarkably stable for the entire history of our country - I know they can drop - I know nothing is written in stone - but I think SS is a great program and privatizing it would be a huge disservice to ourselves and generations to come.

Man cannot exist alone - he/she needs society to survive - it ain't socialism, it's biology - if we don't support each other, we've got nothing. I'm all for capitalism and an open market - but if you take off away too many of the democratically chosen rules, what you end up with is a dictatorship of the most powerful against the weakest. And that's historically what we came from, I'd hate to go back to it.

[maat55]

[QUOTE]

Except that people are collecting SS - despite people having beaten the same drum you are beating for years -
And the money in SS are not just IOU's they are government bonds - which have been remarkably stable for the entire history of our country - I know they can drop - I know nothing is written in stone - but I think SS is a great program and privatizing it would be a huge disservice to ourselves and generations to come.

I disagree, all ponzi-schemes appear stable in the beginning, this one has to force people to participate and pay more as it collapses. A disservice to future generations is making them pay more of their discretionary funds to maintain the program. You are flat out neglecting to accept the obvious fact that it is turning lower wage earners into serfs.

Man cannot exist alone - he/she needs society to survive - it ain't socialism, it's biology - if we don't support each other, we've got nothing. I'm all for capitalism and an open market - but if you take off away too many of the democratically chosen rules, what you end up with is a dictatorship of the most powerful against the weakest. And that's historically what we came from, I'd hate to go back to it.

Again, you are wrong and you are infringing on my freedoms. Mankind is not hindging on the forced programs of the federal government.You wish to give your freedom away instead of accepting the realities of the free market, which have a very good track record for performance. People will not suffer if they put 12.4% of their incomes in diversified investments over a 45 year period. The only thing that can distablize the markets enough to collapse them is the government(federal reserve,GSE's) itself.

Mandated private accounts are more than enough intrusion. How you can justify the gross misuse of funds is astounding. You completely ignor the consequences to future generations.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

What about SS for widows and orphans? Disabled? Where do we fund them from?

[Mjenn]

[QUOTE=maat55;289152]

Again, you are wrong and you are infringing on my freedoms. Mankind is not hindging on the forced programs of the federal government.You wish to give your freedom away instead of accepting the realities of the free market, which have a very good track record for performance. People will not suffer if they put 12.4% of their incomes in diversified investments over a 45 year period. The only thing that can distablize the markets enough to collapse them is the government(federal reserve,GSE's) itself.

Mandated private accounts are more than enough intrusion. How you can justify the gross misuse of funds is astounding. You completely ignor the consequences to future generations.

Sorry, but I think I owe it to future generations to not remove something that my grandparents fought so hard to enact. Something that I believe if I fight for it will be there for both me and my children.

I do not think SS is a ponzi scheme - nor do I think that if democratically elected people pass laws that are approved and supported by our system of government that includes congress and the supreme court that these things are taking away your freedoms. These things are called democracy as plotted by this country's forefathers - and that is something I support whole-heartedly because I believe they were on to something great. I don't always agree with every law/act - but the system has been doing pretty well so far.

In someways I wish people who felt like you did have the option of opting out of the system and shooting yourselves in the foot - but it would not be fair to the system. Not to mention that I don't believe any of us have the foresight to predict which of us will be disabled, widowed, orphaned etc.

I'm not giving my freedom away, I am giving a small portion of my paycheck away - there is a difference Maat.

It seems you have a lot to say about Friedman economics, and that is fine - but to pretend that there isn't a whole other school who believes in a whole different theory - Keynesians like myself - and to believe that economic theory isn't anything but that, THEORY, is a real sign of ignorance.

[rj.phila]

The american people have been dumbed down into little socialist.

if you dont mind, i'd love to hear about the last conversation you had regarding politics and economics in a socialist country with someone that would qualify as "dumb". if you havent travelled to one, maybe a conversation with anyone domestically who considers themselves a socialist, that you felt was a "dumb" conversation? in my experience, people in socialist countries are some of the most informed and astute people i've ever spoken to. so i'd really love to hear the other side.

littleroc02us:" Socialism or Communism...."

which one are you referring to? obviously they aren't identical, or even interchangeable.

[littleroc02us]

which one are you referring to? obviously they aren't identical, or even interchangeable.

SS and Medicaid are big Gov't programs, where big brother feels I'm stupid and I cannot handle my own retirement. Socialist is maybe the word, but everyone throws that word around the definition gets lost.

[Frugal]

I agree with privatizing Social Security. After all, people of my generation will never see a dollar of all the hard-earned money taken out of each paycheck in order to fund this liability. The gov't is in over their head with this one. Guess it could be considered an "unfunded liability", since Social Security is running out of money fast, and will not be there for people my age.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I'm still stuck on what happens if you don't contribute for 45 years 12.4%? What if you are disabled or orphaned or widowed? I am more of a socialist, but I don't pretend to be otherwise. I take offense at being called a communist.

Also if you actually discuss politics and economics in socialist countries you'd be surprised at what they think. They have a very different opinion about people and caring for another person. Just because you believe that doesn't make your beliefs in economics wrong, just different.

[maat55]

What about SS for widows and orphans? Disabled? Where do we fund them from?

A mandated private system would have a portion of the taxes going to term and disability insurance.