WP: Some say bypassing a higher education is smarter than paying for a degree

[MonkeyMama]

Hmmm, so my wife's college degree from an ivy league school cost her about $80K out of pocket (with some grant/scholorship money to make up the rest). It was painfull paying off these student loans when we were first married, but now she makes over $200K a year plus full health/retirement benefits...so...I dunno...seems worth it to me.

I think perhaps the lesson learned is don't go to a $30K to $40K a year school and major in "Ancient study of Egyptian underwater basket weaving" unless you really feel like there will be lots of demand for that degree in the future.

I have no issue with this point. I know people who thoughtfully went to private schools, and have done very well. In this discussions people usually think I am extremely anti-private-school or would never consider it. I just think it's rare when it makes the most sense. But I certainly know plenty of people who have fared very well the private school route.

That said, there are numerous studies that show that most powerful/high paying positions are not filled by Ivy League-ers. So, if the belief is that you have to go to Ivy League to make $200k per year, well that is simply not true.

[KTP]

I have no issue with this point. I know people who thoughtfully went to private schools, and have done very well. In this discussions people usually think I am extremely anti-private-school or would never consider it. I just think it's rare when it makes the most sense. But I certainly know plenty of people who have fared very well the private school route.

That said, there are numerous studies that show that most powerful/high paying positions are not filled by Ivy League-ers. So, if the belief is that you have to go to Ivy League to make $200k per year, well that is simply not true.

I didn't really mean a person *had* to go to a private or Ivy League school in order to succeed, just showing an example where the education investment has paid off. She actually would have done quite well at any school, as she was writing and selling software programs at 10 years old.

The Ivy League experience did provide a little zing to the resume, because of their reputation in her chosen field. I think there is opportunity for networking there too, since you are surrounded by a lot of rich brats who unfortunately you will probably be working for one day. She didn't end up working for anyone she went to class with, but I could see this being the case with that type of school.

[Cassius King]

I personally think that college adds a slight edge to bettering one's life.

However. Having a college degree doesn't guarantee financial success. It's money lessons that were learned from parents and on their own.

There are plenty of people that don't have college degrees, that are good with money, that are better off than the doctor's that live next door to them. Hell, they might even be better people because they know the value of a dollar.

Thinking back on my college education, business school, I'm going to have a hard time encouraging my son to go to college. If he was to learn a trade, graduate from high school, buy a house and live below his means. He would be years ahead of most of the others that graduate college with a ton of debt and more likely a degree that won't warrant what their debt load is.

Not only the financial strain, but how many young adults have to put off starting a family until their late 30's because of college debt? How many choose not to have kids at all?

If your honest, hard working, and good with money, you can have a very successful life. Both financially and mentally.

[cypher1]

I personally think that college adds a slight edge to bettering one's life.

However. Having a college degree doesn't guarantee financial success. It's money lessons that were learned from parents and on their own.

There are plenty of people that don't have college degrees, that are good with money, that are better off than the doctor's that live next door to them. Hell, they might even be better people because they know the value of a dollar.

Thinking back on my college education, business school, I'm going to have a hard time encouraging my son to go to college. If he was to learn a trade, graduate from high school, buy a house and live below his means. He would be years ahead of most of the others that graduate college with a ton of debt and more likely a degree that won't warrant what their debt load is.

Not only the financial strain, but how many young adults have to put off starting a family until their late 30's because of college debt? How many choose not to have kids at all?

If your honest, hard working, and good with money, you can have a very successful life. Both financially and mentally.

I completely agree with all this. I think of a lot of students and adults still believe a degree is a like a guarantee of financial wealth and security. Its difficult explaining this to my dad (or that generation) who's 30+ years at the Post Office for union, who doesn't see all the layoffs from corporations, that most people aren't spending their whole career at one company anymore.

While I dont have a degree, I still believe in the long run having one offers a higher percentage of salary increase, and job security, and opportunity verses someone without one, especially in this competitive market. But a lot of my friends in my field agreed your education gets you in the front door for an interview, but your experience gets you the job. There's no easy way to balance when starting out, besides networking.

[tulog]

LOL. If he left without his degree, he would still be delivering pizzas for 60 hours a week.

[adyboy]

well this question is really a subjective question. It depends on the person. Some people just don't understand or can't learn well using the normal form of education. To them, formal education only closets the mind and puts it in a cage where forward thinking is attacked rather than rewarded. Real World is a lot harsher a teacher so you have to learn or risk being left behind. There are a lot of minds which have prospered like Bill Gates, Richard Branson, Albert Einstein....the list goes on.The fact remains, for some people, Ivy league colleges are their way of success and to some... the real world is the best teacher. To each his own i say. Follow your heart

[Like2Plan]

I just read an interesting article from the Wall Street Journal (Sept 20th) on this subject:

By CONOR DOUGHERTY

GARY, Ind.—Fifteen years after high school, the working lives of Tremell Sinclair and Phyllis Sellars have evolved very differently, largely because of a single decision.

Ms. Sellars went to college; Mr. Sinclair didn't.

That decision has always shaped their economic prospects, but never more so than during the recent recession: Ms. Sellars kept her white-collar job, recently landing a pay raise, while Mr. Sinclair was laid off from his forklift driving job last year and only just found a new one—at a 46% lower salary.
.The classmates illustrate a divide between the fortunes of Americans with college degrees and those without. It's not only that the college educated earn more, but that they are far more likely to keep their jobs when times get tough.

By some measures, recession has exacerbated the divide. The unemployment rate for workers 25-and-older with a bachelor's degree or higher was 4.6% in August, for example, compared with 10.3% for those with just a high-school diploma. That's a 5.7-percentage-point gap, compared with a gap of only 2.6 percentage points in December 2007 when the recession began.

Laid-off college graduates are also finding work faster. Their median duration of unemployment was 18.4 weeks as of August, compared with 27.5 weeks for high-school grads. Three years ago, that figure was roughly the same for both groups—9.5 weeks and 9.6, respectively. And among the worst-off 25-and-older workers, the 5.2 million who have been out of work six months or more, only 19% are those who graduated from college, even though that group makes up a third of the work force.

College Grads Expand Lead in Job Security

[Bades]

I will be graduating from college soon with an MIS degree from a state school in Ohio.

I have an intership working for one of the biggest utility companies in the U.S. making more as an intern than some peoples full time jobs.

My degree got me the interview and i'm in my 4 month of interning out of 6, and I will most likely be asked back in the spring, starting at a very good salary for a college grad.

The people I met and professors I became friends with is invaluable to have for future resources. Being an alumni can go long ways if you need a job down the road, or if you want to hook up, seek advice, amd/or partner with people who are interested in the same fields you are.

My schooling was great too, we had opportunites in class to consult for actual companies and get real world experience while in the classroom!

So my schooling and degree was def worth the money.

[Bades]

I'm not saying you can't get a good job without college, but it's a lot harder, and the opportunites to really rise within a company and start making the big bucks will be even harder than that.

I hear people I know that brag about the money they started making straight out of high school without a college degree, but the thing is, they will most likely continue making that same wage/salary for years to come, and by the time theyre 40 their salary will have plateau.

And again their are exceptions

[Bades]

I'm not saying you can't get a good job without college, but it's a lot harder, and the opportunites to really rise within a company and start making the big bucks will be even harder than that.

I hear people I know that brag about the money they started making straight out of high school without a college degree, but the thing is, they will most likely continue making that same wage/salary for years to come, and by the time theyre 40 their salary will have plateau.

But again there are exceptions

[rizzmo]

Bades, I am fortunate to be one of those "got a good paying job right out of high school without a college degree people". It is highly likely that had things gone any other way, I would be working a McJob. I realize the majority of people are not that lucky, on the other hand I know many people who have college degree's that can't find a job in their field. It is sad to see someone with 10's of thousands in debt with a useful skill having to work as unskilled labor in an attempt to make student loan payments.

I think getting a college degree is only worthwhile if the profession you are pursuing requires you by law to have the degree to work in the profession. Teachers (grade and high school) are a notable exception to this viewpoint.

[Bades]

Rizzmo,

When it comes to the real high paying jobs, like in the tech, accounting, financing fields etc, and getting jobs with the big companies and firms, they wouldn't even look at you without a college degree.

But you're right there are people with degrees that dont have jobs, and I dont think it's the degree, it's the person.

They probably didn't take advantage of career fairs, clubs and other networking opportunities at school.

I had a buddy at school who i haven't talked to in probably 5 months, and he texted me the other day saying if my internship didn't work out, he could get me an interview with his company. It's about who you know and your persistance in networking and following up with others.

There is always something you can be doing to better position yourself to find a job opportunity.

[zetta]

Sure there are some people who have wasted money on a degree, and others who have succeeded spectacularly without one. But if you look at percentages and averages, in general the trend is that the average person who completes college is earning more than the average person who doesn't. I think you really have to look at the individual's strengths, weaknesses, and interests to decide which path to advise him or her to take.

[zetta]

In some professions, you can get a job without a college degree, but are shut out from advancing without one. I'm a software engineer, and have worked with very competent test technicians who have either military experience or a two-year degree. One of them told me that having the 4-year degree would be worth a $20k raise immediately, and more opportunities to advance to test engineer and manager. It's snobbery, but a test technician would be unlikely to be considered for a managerial position.

[gambler2075]

... on the other hand I know many people who have college degree's that can't find a job in their field. It is sad to see someone with 10's of thousands in debt with a useful skill having to work as unskilled labor in an attempt to make student loan payments.

I think getting a college degree is only worthwhile if the profession you are pursuing requires you by law to have the degree to work in the profession. Teachers (grade and high school) are a notable exception to this viewpoint.

I always find it interesting how some people choose the most ridiculous majors in college, taking classes like these, pledging Tappa Kegga Bru... and then 6 years later wonder why they can't find a job.

I agree that for fields like medicine where you have to have a degree to get into, then it completely makes sense to apply the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" philosophy and go to college... That being said, I am still not using really much of anything that I learned as a p-chem major in my job.

I think a good argument can be made for some of the european systems where they combine college and med school and shorten things to 6 years, which I think is plenty of education for those so inclined.

One thing about college is that, if you don't go, you are definitely shutting off large potential areas of employment, and some people haven't completely made up their minds about the rest of their life when they leave high school. College allows you to delay that decision for a while, hopefully while enjoying the 'best years of your life'. I would say, however, that there are times when I envy people who went to a less competitive school than I did (in Cambridge, MA) as they probably had much more free time to enjoy college.

g