Wwyd?

[Kgrace]

Would you end an engagement to someone who made you very happy (and you are very picky) if there was absolutely no way you could afford to live alone together for at least 5-8 years?

You are already in your mid 30's. You have debt but it will be gone in 2 years. You live beneath your means. Your credit it near perfect. You have almost 6K in cash savings.

Your fiance will likely be foreclosing on a house that he owns with 2 currently unemployed people, and he is being sued (court date not for 3 years). He may have to declare bankrupcy. He has, bewteen house, car, and cc, hundreds of thousands in debt. He has learned his lesson and no longer uses credit. But that doesn't negate years of bad decisions. He is almost 40. He has no savings.

You already work a full time job and have a long commute each way so a second job is next to impossible without being gone from 6 am to 11 pm. You have already sold most of your belongings.

You currently can't afford a place by yourself without spending over 50% of your income each month. Your fiance has nothing left over after paying his ever rising mortgage. All attempts to re-fi have been turned down. You can't live at the house he owns for numerous reasons. The house and room are unrentable, he's tried.

Your only chance to marry and live together are to live in a small apartment with a roommate. You foresee years of fighting over this arrangement. You know yourself well enough to know living with your husband + a roommate will make you unhappy.

The thought of a life without your fiance breaks your heart. But the thought of at least a half decade long wait at your age, and a lifetime of poverty resulting from his financial mistakes that will equal giving up dreams in life such as home ownership etc. also breaks your heart. No one has ever treated you as well as this person. Aside from the money, he is everything you ever wanted.

WWYD? Would you give up the life you wanted to spend it with the person you wanted?

Life is grand if you don't weaken! Jesus Christ gave up everything, so that we could live. Never put money, and material things above relationships. STUFF will never go away... you will always be able to aquire it, you will always be able to replace it ... It's just STUFF.

Some of my most memorable times with my sisters, were when three girls had to share one bedroom, a set of bunk beds and a single bed, all cramped into one room ... Apartment life is not bad ... and sometimes a room mate can be a referee, or sounding board, and most often the arguments won't be near as heated with a third party around.

Give up your relationship, only if you don't love the person. Money and lifestyle would probably not be an issue if the love was in the right place. It's about sacrifice, for each other and for a better lifestyle.

Stay positive ... Life can change on a dime ... even for the most wealthy. Live for today. Don't create fear ... before an event even happens. Seek good solid advice from experts like Dave.
God first, FAMILY second ... and work/money third. You can make things Good. Sincerely, Kgrace

[cschin4]

Sacrifices are made for love but by both parties. From the OP, it really doesn't sound as if he is doing much to move the relationship forward. He could figure out and resolve his legal/house mess if he choose too. It might take time and effort but sounds like he really isn't all that interested in doing so.
If you want to get married, you have to find a way to merge your lives. For me, I was accepted into 2 different universities at the time I was dating my spouse and then moved, got married and went to school where he was working. You have to decide together what is the best way to go and proceed. One may be initially making more changes than the other. But, the point is to work together.

[PetMom]

You could just go on with the thought of not marrying him for now and maybe not invest so much in the relationship and continue to concentrate on your financial well being first.

You can still be friends and when this economic downturn gets better and houses go up in value, jobs are easily gotten, he can start to work on his debt/situation, etc... then you can think of a relationship leading to marriage.

You can always easily get married but, once you get married it is far harder and more expensive to detangle some commingled assets and pay for a divorce.

Give him some time and remain friends and then maybe things will work out for him and you can rethink it again. Marry now and be happy (but remember financial fighting is one of the major reasons for divorce) and always be worrying about money after you have worked so hard and are financially fit.

I hope not too personal but you and other women/men need to be aware when debt/financial problems loom you need to be possibly concerned about a bad habit - drinking, gambling, liking the high life - not that this applies here - but some ladies have found out after marriage there were some problems going on that are hard to stop after marriage. Debt and bad financial situation are sometimes a red flag. Of course it could just be the economy and the housing situation going on and this may not apply at all in this case.

[BlackDiamond]

I think you have answered your own question. So, at this point, you really should make a firm decision to move on with your life. If it isn't going to work, it isn't going to work. You are only hurting yourself if you continue with a relationship that is going nowhere.

But, what kind of legal situation involves owning a house, having a lawsuit, being $100K upside down, etc? There may be some basis for that but are your sure he is telling you all or just kind of spinning? Certainly partnerships can be dissolved, it might take legal wrangling and some expense but so what? If he wanted to get out, there is a way. Why can't they sell the house? If the other partners are in this losing proposisition and don't want to sell then, they aren't to bright. They should be doing whatever it takes to unload the house. You can sell at a loss. Fix it up, price it low, low, low and let it go. It really sounds like he is making excuses. And, what is up with this home? Do they all live in it? Is it just sitting empty? How could a judge expect a home to sit there empty for 3 yrs waiting for a lawsuit? Why would it take 3 yrs to even address this? It doesn't add up.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the homes on the cul de sac share responsibility of maintaining some sort of machinery that prevents contamination of a run off field (does that make sense? I'm not 100% sure what it's called). The owner of that machinery and field used to own all of the land the houses are on and in ALL of their mortgage agreements, it says they are responsible for maintaining the machine. NONE of them have and now it needs 80K in repairs and the owner is suing the entire neighborhood. Every homeowner on the block who was part of the shared maintainence agreement. It makes no sense to me but I don't own a house so I have no idea how that sort of thing works. It is clearly stated in their mortgage agreement though. They are screwed. My fiance is looking at $8K at least, just from his portion of this.

I really can't afford to help him pay it. Nor do I feel I should have to. Why should I be stuck paying for his financial mistakes, not only with my cash but also with my happiness… money does buy happiness in the form of travel, nicer meals etc.

The co-owners are his brothers and I agree, they aren't too bright, but he won't walk out on them. I would, quite frankly, if they were my brothers. Because I don't think family is worth going into financial ruin for. These are grown men in their 30s. The youngest one talked the other two into buying the dump 5 years ago for over $300K with no money down, variable interest rate, interest first mortgage with the intent to flip it in a few years. They have not even begun to pay on the principal yet. They have no equity. No one will refinance them. They just wrote a hardship letter since the two brothers are now laid off. They were denied. Before the lawsuit was filed, they tried to sell. No one wants it because it's in a remote area and it has 3 small bedrooms and only one tiny bathroom. Now they can't sell it because the lawsuit is directly tied to the mortgage agreement.

My opinion is that if he really loved me and wanted to marry me, he'd choose me. He'd take the legal avenues necessary to get out of the partnership with his brothers. But he has told me repeatedly that they are family and thus more important to him than me.

Even if they sold it at a loss in 3 years after the suit is done, there is no way my fiance, making just over min wage, is going to be capable of paying for the difference + the 8K judgement on top of part of our bills. And there is no way we're buying our own house or doing anything fun that I wanted to do in life anytime soon.

[cschin4]

But he has told me repeatedly that they are family and thus more important to him than me.

Again, there lies your answer. It is painful and you love him. But, in life, love, and learning there is pain. You simply cannot have a marriage unless both are willing to cleave to one another and forsake all others. That does not mean he has to dismiss his brothers. But, he is wrong in his thinking. You do not have to be in business with your brothers. You can go out of business with your brothers. That has nothing to do with family. In reality, this isn't going to work out well. Sounds like they are all in financial ruin, there is no solution and that is going to continue.
So, you can move on but you don't need to do so and feel regret. You loved and learned. Appreciate what you now know and move ahead and cut yourself some slack for your emotions. And, don't make the mistake of others who feel they have to then feel anger, resentment, etc. You loved him with all you had. That is never wrong, even if it isn't returned in full.

[cschin4]

And, note the word "repeatedly". He is telling you the answer even though it is difficult to hear. But, if you move ahead, a year from now you will heal and be in much better emotional place. And, you will find opportunities and love you didn't imagine.

[PrincessPerky]

I know of a family that is married with kids, the parents do not live together. They have frequent 'sleepover' dates, and often other dates (that's where those kids came from). So marriage is not about living together, it is about promising to stand by the one and only love of your life, for the rest of your life.

If you have doubts about loving him for the rest of your life no matter where you end up, then don't marry him.

[BlackDiamond]

Thanks all.

I have actually brought up the idea of us just living apart. Military families do that. I could deal with that. I would just use the alone time to work on my ebay stuff. When the ebay stuff runs out, I'll probably get a "real" second job. I honestly enjoy working. Is that weird? I'd get a second real job now if my day job would allow time for it. I feel like I'm being productive. I truly enjoy sorting through and selling my old stuff. So living apart would not be an issue for me, as long as my roommate was okay with my fiance being there several nights a week. My current roommate doesn't care what I do, because he desperately needs my rent money.

The problem is, per the law, whether I live with him or no-- I'm still his wife and legally responsible for his debts. When they decide how much he has to pay per month on the lawsuit, they will be taking my income (double what his is) into account. He won't be able to pay whatever they want him to pay. I'll wind up being stuck paying it. Is it wrong that I do not want to pay a dime towards a house I don't go to? I have been there once. I got so sick from his brothers 3 cats that I had to leave in the middle of the night and go to the hospital. I'm incredibly allergic. It's also 3 hours away from my job. I'm pretty sure in my state the courts could even garnish MY paychecks for his judgement.

Also, if he forecloses or declares bankrupcy (which I forsee happening because he really, truly can not pay his bills) AFTER we're married, can that hurt my credit? Also, I assume it will be a lot harder for him to do either of those things because, again, they are going to take his spouses income (mine) into account.

He can't afford an attorney for a pre-nup (which wouldn't help while we were still married anyway…only if he died or something) and I really can't afford to pay for his attorney and mine if we got one.

I really don't think we'd stay together if we ended the engagement. It's hard to "go back". Someone asked me a few posts back what I want. I want to have a life partner, someone to go through life with, build a future (both emotional and financial) together with the goal of mutual companionship and security both of us having someone we can always count on. I don't think you necessarily have to want kids to want to get married. And I do think a marriage is much stronger of a bond than just dating. I know some people date forever and never marry and that's cool if that works for them. That would not be cool with me. And at my age, I really don't want to waste a lot more time.

I'm not some sort of golddigger. I'm not looking for a man to pay 100% of the bills. I'm not even looking for a man to pay 50% of the bills. As I said, my salary is almost double his and I've known that for a long time. He almost never pays for anything. Occasionally he'll buy our groceries or pay if we go out for pizza. He did not even get me a birthday gift last year. There was nothing I wanted and I didn't want him wasting any money on a trinket just because.

But I think I do need to be with someone who is free from the burdens of impossible debt. And even then, if FI decided to declare bankrupcy or foreclose the house now, BEFORE I was legally attached to him, I would stand by him and still want to marry him. If he did it now, my credit would not be effected and we could survive off my good credit for a long time. My credit is very good. My job is secure. But my spouse needs to be able to contribute SOME amount of money, even if it's only $500 or so a month to OUR life together. Not just because I do not make enough money to support two people in this state, but also on principal. If he spends the next decade spending every cent he makes on his life prior to meeting me, how will we save for our future? I don't date men with kids who pay child support or alimony for this same reason.

Only in FI case, it's a worthless piece of property instead of a child or an ex.

At least a child would be cute, fun and worth the financial strain.

When he proposed, he'd promised me they'd list the house in January 2010 and sell it to the first reasonable offer. I figured it would take a while but I could deal with a year of living on spaghttios. But then in December they got sued. Then they found out the mortgage was going up. Then he promised they would refi. They were denied. Then they found out both of the other two were losing their jobs. IMHO, his brothers problems have nothing to do with us and if FI loved me, he'd stop trying to cover for them. He says that if he stops helping, his entire family will disown him. He was originally going to stop paying 1/3 of the utilities when he moved in with me, but now because they have no money, he has to pay that so they won't freeze. Honestly, these are grown men. They should be able to figure out a way to pay their own heating and FI should not be paying util on a house he doesn't reside in. He's also promised several times that he would look for a second job, but he has not because he doesn't want to risk being scheduled to work when his real job offers OT.

Personally, I think they all need to walk away. Take the credit hit. You can rebuild your credit but you can't get back hundreds of thousands of wasted dollars thrown away on a home you don't even want to live in.

I honestly do not understand why people buy houses they can't afford. The reason my roommate so desperately needs my rent is because he owns the house we live in (he co-owns it with our upstairs neighbor) and he can't afford his half of the mortgage without my $400 a month. He cuts it that close.

[cschin4]

But he has told me repeatedly that they are family and thus more important to him than me.

Did you not just hear yourself say this? You are rationalizing. You are going to miss the true love of your life and the life you could have if you don't walk away. It seems that is what you really want to do and from what you have written, it doesn't seem that he is as committed to making it work as you are. Re-read what you have written and step back from the emotion.

[cschin4]

He almost never pays for anything. Occasionally he'll buy our groceries or pay if we go out for pizza. He did not even get me a birthday gift last year.

Black - I don't mean to be harsh. But, do you value yourself so little? Don't you really want more for yourself? It sounds like you are willing to give 100% to someone who will give back. He neither cannot or willnot.

[cschin4]

He says that if he stops helping, his entire family will disown him.

More important than YOU!

[cschin4]

He's also promised several times that he would look for a second job, but he has not because he doesn't want to risk being scheduled to work when his real job offers OT.

Promises and excuses. He is a grown man. He isn't figuring this all out because he doesn't have too, he doesn't want the responsibilty and he can schlep on your couch with no responsibility or expectations while you pay, attempt to "help" him (which he pretends to want but doesn't) and on and on.

[wincrasher]

A healthy relationship is one where two people each bring something to the table.

Whether it is emotional stability, financial, devotion or whatever. One person cannot carry all the load.

It may just be bad timing or bad luck. Whatever. This relationship is doomed. Don't compound your mistake by getting married.

Minimum - just hold off for now and see what develops. Maximum - cut him loose and look for another.

But be honest with him. Don't tell him you won't marry him just because he doesn't make enough money. Give him the whole truth about why your relationship won't bring you happiness.

[BlackDiamond]

thanks every one.

[cschin4]

Best of luck! But, don't sell yourself short. If you decide to move on, take some time to heal, decompress and just have fun!
If not, then I do think you need to have a frank talk, sit down, really hear what he is saying and if he wants a future, then there has to be some movement toward doing so or not. I am not saying an ultimatum but see if you sense the genuineness to do so or not.