In a tough spot ! Making $300K, gf has debt wants to marry !

[Seeker]

I tend to agree with the majority here. The woman in this picture does not sound unlike the vast majority of people in both genders.

IMHO, most people work and drive themselves to earn a living for the major goal of having fun; the vast majority of people whom earn their livings do so to "LIVE," not to put themselves in a grave of separation from their family and friends.

OP calls himself "secretlyrich" but does not view himself as such. He states that his GF has $3k in CC debt; he has 12k in education debt. His GF's 3k debt is negligible in my view. Most people pay more than that in property taxes, or income taxes, or even for a run-down auto.

It stands to reason, that OP does not want to marry this person. He himself stated that he is not ready. Therefore he should not.

It's as simple as that.

---

As far as a book and reading and confidence, I'm sorry, but it takes money and energy to make more money (it takes a one-track mind with the goal and the pursuit of that goal in order to accomplish this -- all OP energies are in pursuit of that one goal).

Not all people have this nor want it; and I'll readily admit that I do not and will not.

I'd rather enjoy life with people, rather than constantly compare, be driven to make more money, and be critical and overbearing to the people I care about.

Accept people as they are and move on if you cannot.

The only person anyone can change is themself. And nobody changes any aspect of their lives if they do not want to make that change; if they do not recognize the "need" for that change. It is unreasonable to expect to change anyone other than "me."

[secretlyrich]

@PetMom: I have my own engineering company. My point was, if anyone wants to, they can learn about the things they're interested in, and work hard to become successful at it. I really dont think its a complicated ordeal to make it in the US. It helps to start off with money, but its absolutely not needed. There are tons of ppl who started off with literally nothing (I include myself in this), and just worked hard at learning and becoming good in one area, and then it paid off. Famous examples: Sergey Brin/Larry Page, Larry Ellison, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc.. All of these people just learned something really well and capitalized on it. I'd love to know why people think there is some magic formula to making it in the US. Anyway, I dont consider myself rich, if I had over $2 million dollars, then maybe yes. To me, thats the magic number as it would allow me the OPTION of not working again for 40 yrs and to retire whenever I wanted to. What are your thoughts on that ?

@Seeker: Thanks for response. I enjoyed reading it. My username was a joke when I first started using it, since I had like $1200 to my name in college, but I felt intellectually "rich". I understand how that could be misread though. I agree though, I definitely dont want to ever become someone who's sole purpose in life is to accrue money or materialistic things, however, when I have kids, I want to spend as much time with them as possible, and be free to do what I want. For me, it comes down to: To not care about money, you have to have alot of money. Could I live on $50k a yr and not care about money ? Yes to some degree, but noone can deny that money will be an issue when schools, mortgage, etc all come into play. I want to completely eliminate that.

I do accept my GF for who she is, however, I have to hear her constantly complain and cry about how her job sucks, she doesnt have enough money for clothes, etc. She mostly spends her money on food, her cat, and her ailing car, so its not like she's a lavish spender, she just doesnt have enough $ coming in.

[Seeker]

@PetMom: I have my own engineering company. My point was, if anyone wants to, they can learn about the things they're interested in, and work hard to become successful at it. I really dont think its a complicated ordeal to make it in the US. It helps to start off with money, but its absolutely not needed. There are tons of ppl who started off with literally nothing (I include myself in this), and just worked hard at learning and becoming good in one area, and then it paid off. Famous examples: Sergey Brin/Larry Page, Larry Ellison, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc.. All of these people just learned something really well and capitalized on it. I'd love to know why people think there is some magic formula to making it in the US. Anyway, I dont consider myself rich, if I had over $2 million dollars, then maybe yes. To me, thats the magic number as it would allow me the OPTION of not working again for 40 yrs and to retire whenever I wanted to. What are your thoughts on that ?

@Seeker: Thanks for response. I enjoyed reading it. My username was a joke when I first started using it, since I had like $1200 to my name in college, but I felt intellectually "rich". I understand how that could be misread though. I agree though, I definitely dont want to ever become someone who's sole purpose in life is to accrue money or materialistic things, however, when I have kids, I want to spend as much time with them as possible, and be free to do what I want. For me, it comes down to: To not care about money, you have to have alot of money. Could I live on $50k a yr and not care about money ? Yes to some degree, but noone can deny that money will be an issue when schools, mortgage, etc all come into play. I want to completely eliminate that.

I do accept my GF for who she is, however, I have to hear her constantly complain and cry about how her job sucks, she doesnt have enough money for clothes, etc. She mostly spends her money on food, her cat, and her ailing car, so its not like she's a lavish spender, she just doesnt have enough $ coming in.

You "accept" your GF, but you need to realize that along with the things you enjoy, will be the things you dislike.

Some people will never "love" their jobs, but ultimately she is working.

Ultimately she does not have a debt level that unreasonable, yet you demand her to change. To work harder and grow or learn something else that she may not like at all. Something that runs counter to things she believes she can do; or runs counter to whatever she wishes to do (which may be to marry you and be a SAHM).

Currently you take her away from work she dislikes, yet you know that she also loses 5-7 days of pay by being with you. So Every 8 weeks or so, she loses a week of pay. And you frown at that.

You opened this thread with a rather difficult sentence, quoted:

I feel quite isolated because of my profession and lack of friends, so I turn to you all.

You feel quite isolated. Put yourself in her shoes. Realize that some women do not want to be "top dog" or "captain" or "supervisor" or "leader", or however you wish to describe your "go-getting" pursuit type of personality. People are each uniquely different.

You are isolated but you simultaneously say you care about her and generally enjoy being with her. How do you define "love?"

A marriage validating "love" is completely accepting of the other person; sure there will be things we would like to change to "better" our SO, but ultimately "love" is wanting to be with that other person, thinking about that other person, what would they like, what are they doing right now, how can I see that twinkle in his eye, make him happy and him smile his smile. "Love" is not a "I want to help you change and become a better person" but quite the opposite, more a growing of togetherness and a sharing of lives in such as way that nothing else outside really truely matters. With some types of love, you don't really what to change too much about that other person. Love becomes a thinking outside of yourself... a sharing.

In order to achieve that, there has to be honest conversation and understanding between two people; without compromise and placing yourself in the other person's point-of-view, without respect and listening and sharing, then "love" or marriage will fail.

There's a certain amount of acceptance and respect that each must have for the other; and in your case, it's not going to happen if you try to pressure her into becoming more like you.

It's not that she cannot achieve the things you have because of her low self-esteem, it's because she does not care to "achieve." She does not see that need. It's not built into her personality.

Another quote:

My gf doesnt seem to care about money, she is more into feeling emotionally cared for (she's said this explicitly to me).

I will repeat this again (everyone should tell themselves this daily):

The only person I can change is myself. Nobody else controls what I think or feel, only me. Other people can think and say what they wish to me, it only matters if I think they are right. If they are right, then I need to further examine this in my own life... do I need to rectify this matter in myself? If they are not right, then guess what, it does not matter. I can choose to either keep them as a friend or not.... it is not within my control to change their opinion. Can I accept this flaw in them and still be myself? If yes, then continuation is possible. If no, then a separation must occur.

Your GF controls what she thinks or feels. You control what you think and feel.

You were married before. Did you not learn that you have no hope of changing another human being?

You can guide a person gently, once, suggest; but you cannot force them, do not repeat, do not harangue. You are not a parent and she is not a child. Respect each other as individuals with all the good/bad each of you has... or do not.

[TBH]

It doesn't sound to me like it's really a money issue. If she had a job she found fulfilling and was a happier person, would you really care that she makes $38,000 per year? Wouldn't she seem more like a complete, whole person, that you can join your life with? It sounds like it's the combination of her unhappiness, the sense that she's treading water and not getting anywhere in life, and on top of that she makes a low salary relative to what you make. She wants to get married and have children--so she's looking to you for a big change in her life that is supposed to make her happier and more fulfilled.

The real issue sounds to me like you're a go-getter and you want to be with somebody who can see what they want in life and go for it. I think that's reasonable. I don't think you want to spend your life with this woman. Therefore I think you should probably end the relationship.

[PetMom]

If you have an engineering company that is quite an accomplishment especially keeping one going in this economy. Plus (I saw you mentioned college) you probably would have an engineering degree which does take hard work, studying and high costs for the degree.

It takes drive to succeed in business and you named off men who if you read biographies of some of them or about them - you find where they may have sacrificed home life and hours with family to succeed. (Bill Gates did a lot of his stuff when a teen and young guy before he married). Some don't and put effort into family and children.

You mention you do feel isolated - don't forget there is such a thing as 'social capital' and that takes some investment of time and energy.

And anyone who has any doubts about marrying should get counseling before marrage - far cheaper than a divorce.

[coach2wealth]

From your language, I don't get the impression you are ready for marriage. Additionally, if you are not on the same page financially you will have serious marriage problems. Money issues are the number one cause of divorce. I'd seek a pre-marital counselor at a minimum.

[woodie96]

One thing that sticks in my mind is something that an elderly friend of mine told me years ago when I was going through my divorce.....

Love is not "because" of........as in because they have this or that...

Love is "in spite of".......as in all of their flaws and shortcomings....

Doesn't sound to me that you are ready for this relationship to progress further at the moment...but time will tell...

[1milliondollarchallenge]

Secretlyrich,

If you really love her try the counselling route, but if it is just that you care for her and worry about her situation if you break up then you shoul dnot be with her.

A lot of marriages end in divorce due to financial differences so it's best og et it sorted.

Self motivation and self-esteem are not things you can teach her. These have to come from within her adn if she doesn't fidn the drive to do it, you have to be happy to marry her as is and not try to change her if that is what you decide to do.

I think all your concerns are valid and that it is good you are looking to adress these issues before considering marriage and kids.

The whole point of dating is to find a suitable partner and she might not be it for you.

Good luck.

[hawkster]

Again I call be,the old story sounds like a well engineered story. Give it time and the poster will be pushing some marketing scam

[ea1776]

I call bs on the whole story

yep, me too. probably trying to sell some book or something via people who PM about how he manages to consistently make that much money. You have 500K in the bank and you claim to make 300K a year consistently?

Ok, that's a 60% return. So, next year's you'd have 800K. Using your fool-proof, get-rich-quick method, wouldn't next year's income be 800K * 0.6 = 480K ?

Wow, with that kind of growth, you should pay off your wife's debt AND start a charity for abused women.

[PetMom]

I was not going to be the one to point out some flaws in this almost flawless financial situaiton.

But since others are bringing it up...

Engineering degree would entail a huge loan (does not even mention any student loans that seem to dog people well into their thirties - how was that achieved?). This guy has too many assets and in a business (engineering businesses are usually owned by engneers) sector that is not doing so great in US right now. And his assets are getting bigger and bigger in this economy while he avoids any debt problems.

Many engineering firms are laying off, downsizing, outsourcing, going out of business - but some are struggling along.

Some asked about the program of reading a book and having self esteem to make it - typical slick marketing - maybe, just maybe all we need now is the $500.00 Saturday Seminar to go with it.

If this situation is somehow for real, after successful marriage counseling, let the new bride work in the business and help out until they start a family.

[BlackDiamond]

I also want to add not everyone has the skill to become an engineer. I'm a pretty smart person but I suck at science. There is no way reading a book on engineering and being confident would get me a job in that field.

[cicy33]

I also want to add not everyone has the skill to become an engineer. I'm a pretty smart person but I suck at science. There is no way reading a book on engineering and being confident would get me a job in that field.

You and me both!!! science is like another language to me.

I do however have to agree with one point the poster made. While it would never make me rich, I am a really good at what I do. I have been doing it for a while now and I have mostly been self taught. but what I do is not where the big money is. Administrative by the way for those that will ask. so I am going back to school to learn another area. some days I just want to stop but I keep going. It is possible to want to be a better person and actively work on it. But not all people are like that so on the flip side to the poster, either you have to accept her the way she is or get out of the relationship. I mean think about it, if we were all the same way what a crazy world we would have! everyone would be an engineer or an accountant. I think it is great that all people are different and have different aspirations in life. I also understand her point of wanting to settle down and have kids. Perhaps she does want to become a SAHM. would you be okay with that?

[skydivingchic]

Engineering degree would entail a huge loan (does not even mention any student loans that seem to dog people well into their thirties - how was that achieved?).

Huh? Someone forgot to tell me that. I graduated with an engineering degree with a single loan of just over $2,000 which was paid off within ~2 years of graduation. Engineering programs are 4 year degrees, just like any other bachelor degree. OP's story may well be made up, but there is no reason obtaining an engineering degree automatically means entailing a "huge loan." I'm currently working on a master's in engineering and will accomplish that without any loans.

[EEinNJ]

I call BS on this story. Very, very few engineers make the kind of money the OP is describing, and their situation is a rarity. But to comment on this thread:

A relationship that is as skewed as described is doomed. Pre-marital counseling is a good thing, as much to educate a couple what they're getting into as getting all the issues and expectations out. But if there's a need to "fix" relationship problems before your even married, that's a red flag.

An engineering degree doesn't have to cost any more than any other bachelor's degree. If you go to MIT instead of a state school, sure you could spend a lot. But that won't make you a better entrepreneur, and arguably, not a better working engineer, either.