Is this too crazy or just crazy enough?

[asmom]

OK, as a professional Speech Language Patholigist who works primarily with young children, I have to jump in on the "white middle class language" remark. I do agree with this, general statement, although I would have phrased it differently.

In extensive research conducted over years of study and looking at different SES families, researchers have found diffrences in the way different SES groups communicate to their children. They have found:
*The average 3 year old from a professional family exceeded that of the average welfare parent;
*In a typical hour, professional parents spent nearly twice as much time interacting with their children as welfare parents;
*By age four, the average child in a welfare family may have 13 MILLION fewer words of cumulative language experienace than the average child in a working class family;
*Children heard 2,100 wods per hour in the average professional family, 1,200 per hour inthe average working class family, and 600 per hour in the average welfare family;
*Professional parents gave children affirmative feedbck more than 30 times per hour, twice taht of working class parents and five times a often as welfare parents;
*Children in welfare families heard a prohibition twice as often as they heard affirmative feedback.


Source:
Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experience of Young American Children
By Betty Hart, Ph.D., & Todd R. Risley, Ph.D.

Interesting. In agreeing with his statements about "white middle class families" you use statistics about welfare families to prove the point. It's almost as if you believe minority=welfare recipient. That's crazy, isn't it?

[asmom]

To clarify the "middle class white" comment first remember that I'm talking about having your child succeed in a world that is implicitly racist. Most school teacher, the gatekeepers of education, are middle class white women. One of the biggest movements in education is trying to get teachers to examine their cultural assumptions, but its hard for anyone to do. One big thing is not just so called "academic vocabulary", but also the way we ask our children questions. In some cultures they ask children questions when the adult does not know the answer. This is nactually fairly rare in schools and among white middle class. Instead, the adult usually know the answer to the question. Imagine a 5 year old who was always asked "real" questions being faced with a teacher asking them "What is 1+1?" The child's typical reaction is to think the adult is being silly or actually does not know the answer. These questions were unique to white middle class culture. Others have adopted it because it is common in schools.

There are many other examples, but that's the sort of thing I mean when I say talk to your child like middle class white people do. Children can then adjust better to the culture of school which for many young children can be a huge culture shock.

As a nonwhite solidly middle class parent, I must say that this explanation makes less sense than your original comment.

[mommyof4]

Interesting. In agreeing with his statements about "white middle class families" you use statistics about welfare families to prove the point. It's almost as if you believe minority=welfare recipient. That's crazy, isn't it?

I may be wrong, but I don't think that Hart and Risley distinquished between racial groups, but looked at SES only. Let me check when I have a minute, and I'll get back to you.

No, I personally don't make believe that minority=welfare recipiant, although some would.

EDIT: I did check, and the only variable they looked at was SES, not racial/ethnic differences.

[cicy33]

OK, as a professional Speech Language Patholigist who works primarily with young children, I have to jump in on the "white middle class language" remark. I do agree with this, general statement, although I would have phrased it differently.

In extensive research conducted over years of study and looking at different SES families, researchers have found diffrences in the way different SES groups communicate to their children. They have found:
*The average 3 year old from a professional family exceeded that of the average welfare parent;
*In a typical hour, professional parents spent nearly twice as much time interacting with their children as welfare parents;
*By age four, the average child in a welfare family may have 13 MILLION fewer words of cumulative language experienace than the average child in a working class family;
*Children heard 2,100 wods per hour in the average professional family, 1,200 per hour inthe average working class family, and 600 per hour in the average welfare family;
*Professional parents gave children affirmative feedbck more than 30 times per hour, twice taht of working class parents and five times a often as welfare parents;
*Children in welfare families heard a prohibition twice as often as they heard affirmative feedback.


Source:
Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experience of Young American Children
By Betty Hart, Ph.D., & Todd R. Risley, Ph.D.

well, I feel I must respond to this one. it is definitely crazy. I am white, nothing special, no disabilities, nothing. I was on welfare for 5 years while my daughter was young. I was divorced. dropped out of high school. Married at 16, pregnant at 17, divorced at 18, I was a statistic more than anything you have ever seen. fast forward 25 years. My daughter is attending college to become a nurse and not just the lpn or whatever they are. (sorry nurses, I just don't know) she aspires to be the top whatever they are. (sorry personally never interested in nursing, needles icckkk!) hmmm, so much for welfare child not having a great vocab. she has been reading since 4. I also put alot of this to the fact I did not even go to work until she was over 2. I put a lot of time into my child. even after that I still focused on educating her daily. just because people are or have been on welfare doesn't mean we aren't educated. There are some bad apples out there but there is some bad apples in the quote unquote high class people too. I heard something once when my daughter was young and I was greatly offended by it. The school wanted to provide special classes for her because she was an "at risk" child. NO SHE WASN'T. her mommy was on welfare and people made a generalized thought based on that.

[Radiance]

feel like we are falling off track a little here

I happen to agree with Radiance that the first few years are crucial. I believe strongly and those with degrees can argue till you are blue but how you nuture and raise your child until they are about 5 can have serious impacts on how your child becomes as they go into teens and even possibly adulthood. Yes, I will grant that bad experiences can be overcome. There is also the point of this mother doesn't want to miss out on these precious years of her child. They will be gone very soon and there is no getting them back. If there is some way to stay home part time and afford it then by all means. And I think the issue should be what can she do not don't do it and keep working and keep your child in day care. That is not what she asked.

This is right on the money! (no pun intended)

I actually think a lot of what I did for my son as a newborn and a baby has had an influence on who he is now as a toddler. I followed attachment parenting, by carryig him as much as a working mother could carry him and by tending to his needs and never let him cry it out... By doing those things I believe I provided a strong foundation for him to feel safe, loved and for him to be able to trust me, his world and himself. This was my way to impact his newborn and baby months...I am not saying this is the only right way.
As a toddler, the son of a working mother and put in preschool at the age of 1 he is (and this is what I get from each teacher report from 2 schools): amazingly independent, Self-starter, excellent perception of his own limits; knows when to ask for help and recovers super fast from the very little tantrums he has. -too me each tantrum is one too many, but for the average it seems he is very stable-, he is called sweet, intelligent, mild (o..k... if he is mild, don't want to know wild, he is a handful!!) and cute )
Also in stores or visiting anybody I get the same feedback without me asking.

I strongly believe that if I work on having a stable, resilient and self disciplined toddler now, I will have the best chances for the teen years to be a little more of a blessing than a hassle for both of us.

There is also the point of this mother doesn't want to miss out on these precious years of her child

that is me, I am a mother therefore I exist!!!

And I think the issue should be what can she do not don't do it and keep working and keep your child in day care. That is not what she asked

Yes ! yes ! exactly. This is a financial question because it is money what is stopping me now. However what is money, budgetting or anything else if you are not able to do the things that make you alive?

So, I am asking for compassionate, clever, out of the box and creative ideas to make this plan of mine work. Imagine that he must be with me half day. Imagine there are no but to it, it must happen.

That premise can not be negotiated, nor judged, it just is
From there what is your best advise?

About the white stuff again
I am a latin girl, but he is a super white boy. I am not a classist (is that a word?) but I am certain he will have good vocabulary. Mine is good even though English is not my native language, I learned English at the age of 24. I think if you are non-white but have good vocabulary and care about your child's education, he/she will be just fine.. NOTHING to do with skin colors, race of social status, please leave that for statistics. There are non educated people in all social statuses. Let's just teach proper English and proper communication skills. If a parent don't have those, then he/she can not pass those on to the children...not at home at least. How do you teach your children to speack better than you do??

[graceful]

First of all, I admire your enthusiasm and your willingness to do what it takes and what you have done so far.

My sister, cousins and a few friends all have said that staying home when their kids were school age was actually more helpful then when they were smaller. Between after-school activities and homework there is a lot a parent does and they all felt more needed during those time.

I understand your desire to be with your son as much as possible NOW while he is a toddler in what you feel are his crucial years.

As a mother of a 8 and 11 year old, let me tell you, NO years are non-crucial! I have a feeling that if you feel this way NOW, you will feel this way LATER also.

It's amazing when children start becoming independent thinkers and can really have in-depth conversations with you where you can see them thinking beyond your little world.

I feel that as the years progressed beyond the toddler years, my children needed me MORE and MORE. I also need MORE time with them because the normal day to day stuff with them is NOT enough anymore. They needed MORE of my time to engage with me intellectually as well as all the time consuming stuff that comes with school and after school activities and a whole other LIFE outside of the 4 walls of our home.

I'm not disagreeing that the younger years are "more important" but that your child will need even MORE of your TIME and energy when they get older.

I HAVE to work. Not only for financial reasons but for family commitments. But for the kids I will have to START working harder in shorter hours in order to spend more QUALITY time with them. Starting this Fall, I will be cramming a week of work into 2-3 days and staying home with the kids 2-3 days a week. I'm missing out on too much.

Someone mentioned that working at home or being self-employed actually means LESS time for your child? This is true in terms of QUALITY time. The kids come to my workplace immediately after school. It is great because I get to see them more and I can help them with their homework, and I am there if they need me. But let me tell you the quality time is almost non-existent. I am always busy even when they are there, something always interrupts, work NEVER ends.

Being self-employed and working at home is good because it makes for flexible hours and enables more ideal childcare. HOWEVER, what suffers is the quality spent with the child. I would MUCH prefer a 9-5 job where when I get home, I am ALL theirs, the job stays at work. When you are self-employed, you are on-call 24/7. There is no true "break" for the boss.

Kids are sensitive to cues. "Mom is always working." "Mom NEEDS to work." "We have to wait because Mom is dealing with something important that is work related." All this may lead them to conclude that work is more important to me than them. Especially when they SEE me at work. <sigh>

I strongly believe that if I work on having a stable, resilient and self disciplined toddler now, I will have the best chances for the teen years to be a little more of a blessing than a hassle for both of us.



that is me, I am a mother therefore I exist!!!



Yes ! yes ! exactly. This is a financial question because it is money what is stopping me now. However what is money, budgetting or anything else if you are not able to do the things that make you alive?

So, I am asking for compassionate, clever, out of the box and creative ideas to make this plan of mine work. Imagine that he must be with me half day. Imagine there are no but to it, it must happen.

That premise can not be negotiated, nor judged, it just is
From there what is your best advise?

After going part time for 2 years to spend more time with your son,
then what? My concern is that you will be faced with a dilemma of finding that you want and need to spend more time with him then also but your budgeted finances was only temporary for a few years. Then what?

In your case, if you were bringing in a lot of money and had a lot of financial fat to cut, it might be easier to accomplish what you what to do, because we can try to help make each dollar work harder and cut out more fat to come out with a workable budget.

However, kudos to you, you have already cut out most of the fat, a lot more and deeply than a lot of people are willing to do!

That makes it harder and maybe impossible? 2+2=4. In order to make your budget, you either need to make more money or cut your expenses. You have already cut a lot of your expenses. So that just leaves the HARDER of the 2, the money part.

I wish you lots of luck. I hope someone can give you some workable advice.

But if there were real and available opportunites to make enough extra money while at home to help support a real household, I think a lot of the people that have lost jobs or are forced to cut their hours would have already been taking advantage of these opportunities.

There are probably lots of money making opportunities from home out there. Whether they are real, or enough to actually support a family is another story, especially, in this economy with so many people out of work and looking for these same opportunities.

[zetta]

I tend to agree with Monkey Mama and the other posters that providing financial stability by staying full-time at your current job is the most prudent course -- as a single mother you have to fulfill both the primary-provider and primary-nurturer roles, and it is definitely a balancing act.

However, you asked for out-of-the-box ideas, so here are two:
1. Babysit or nanny a second child for money during the days or time periods you are home with your child. This would also give your child some small measure of the sibling experience. This could be a full-day thing twice a week, or after-school care for an older child. 20 hr/wk at $10/hr would be $800-$900 a month.
2. Find another single mother to team up and share housing and childcare. Work opposite days or shifts and watch each other's children. It would be a bit tricky to find someone with similar parenting philosophies, and there would be some compromise involved.

[MonkeyMama]

Okay I really must respond because as an early development researcher I am one of the "They" you are citing.

First off, good research does NOT show that having your mother around more helps children grow. In fact, what does help them is a stable, loving environment.

VERY well said. "It takes a village," is another way of putting it.

Quanity over quality.

Of course, I Was raised by a depressed/isolated SAHM.

The more involved parents and loving caregivers in a child's life, the better. This is plain as day as I watch other young families around me (& as I Reflect on my own childhood). The most well adjusted and bright children have lots of caring adults in their lives. How much their mother works is the least of the equation (unless we are talking workaholic/never spend time with the kids extremes).

Of course, for me, it is the balance. Financial stability is important to me - so is quality family time. Both are very acheivable. Though obviously much harder for someone trying to do it alone. Though, even for us, some of the most stable/caring adults in our children's lives were not even family. I do wish you luck Radiance, whatever you decide.

[MonkeyMama]

I tend to agree with Monkey Mama and the other posters that providing financial stability by staying full-time at your current job is the most prudent course -- as a single mother you have to fulfill both the primary-provider and primary-nurturer roles, and it is definitely a balancibg act.

However, you asked for out-of-the-box ideas, so here are two:
1. Babysit or nanny a second child for money during the days or time periods you are home with your child. This would also give your child some small measure of the sibling experience. This could be a full-day thing twice a week, or after-school care for an older child. 20 hr/wk at $10/hr would be $800-$900 a month.
2. Find another single mother to team up and share housing and childcare. Work opposite days or shifts and watch each other's children. It would be a bit tricky to find someone with similar parenting philosophies, and there would be some compromise involved.

I should have suggested the same thing - very wise. But yeah, I know a lot of people who wanted to be home with their kids and do daycare to do so.

[maat55]

Life is full of risk and reward, your plan is not financially favorable but your lifestyle wish is.

The kicker for me would be do you have the ability to go back full time if your plan fails? I would say go for it if this is the case.

[maat55]

To add, If I were a young mother and wanted to spend quality time with my young child, loosing a couple of years savings would be worth it. Just be carefull about it.

[Radiance]

God is so good to me!

I think miracles are starting to happen...Praise the Lord!

I received a $200 salary increase and a $4000 performance bonus.... Credit Card debt be gone!
And, my pediatrician is asking me to help him with his website and he already has two other people lined up for the same...so, some night and weekend work. All that the same week!

I think I can try to get some extra money now so I am in a better position Feb 2011. Actually it will have to be March 2011, you need to be full time employee to get performance bonus which is given in March.

I LOVE the idea of babysitting somebody else's kid...I never thought of it. I won't be able to charge 10/hr though. That is paid here only for emergencies. Day-to-day babysitters around charge $200/week or so.so about $800 a month?

Not to piss anybody off, but while I know there are a lot of people out of work, I talk to them and they are not tapping on unconventional ways to make money, they want another job.

I am still considering running some mothering workshops too. and I think I mentioned reiki.

I think that the main pitfall of my plan is that, without another source of income to make up for the part time pay cut, it is simply not sustainable. Like graceful says, then what?
I will just die the day i have to come back to full time.

So I have to start making more money now, 9 1/2 months to go!

[cicy33]

I think that you are going to figure this all out. At least you are going into this with eyes wide open and giving yourself some time to make it work.

[Rei]

Radiance... I'm new here... what a great website! I was just getting set to make a comment when I noticed a bald eagle coasting down to our cove on the Lake of the Ozarks. He/she was descending slow enough that I had time to get my binocs out and watch it's descent. What a gift!

Anyway, I have no advice, just wanted to say "way to go" on your efforts to be a great parent and a great provider.

[sherylcarter]

great job?