Using your neighbors wireless service

[jmjj215]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Maybe I'm confused, but that is the point, to not pay the provider. The one user is paying full price and the provider has no way of knowing how many people are using it that don't live in the household.

Yes - that's my point as well. You're not paying the provider for a service. Whether your neighbor agrees to it or not, I don't think it's honest to steal from the provider. (And I don't care how much the CEO of the provider makes in regards to this question)

[pennywise]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

The point is: hasn't the CEO stolen from you when you paid taxes to build the structure and he charges you for that structure building. No way, lower the prices, cut the salaries, when they stop stealing I will consider my thinking. A CEO is not worth anymore than the average salary, no one is. If you can afford to pay your employee 40,000/year then you make 40,000/year. if there is more all get a bonus the equivalent %. The benefits are the same for all and no-one gets company paid for cars, newspapers, etc. unless all employees do. If your very profitable, more people will want to work for you. If your company is not profitable then you will go bankrupt as you should.

[BCompDude]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

The point is: hasn't the CEO stolen from you when you paid taxes to build the structure and he charges you for that structure building. No way, lower the prices, cut the salaries, when they stop stealing I will consider my thinking. A CEO is not worth anymore than the average salary, no one is. If you can afford to pay your employee 40,000/year then you make 40,000/year. if there is more all get a bonus the equivalent %. The benefits are the same for all and no-one gets company paid for cars, newspapers, etc. unless all employees do. If your very profitable, more people will want to work for you. If your company is not profitable then you will go bankrupt as you should.

I hope you realize that most companies that you purchase products or services from have CEO's. . .your argument really has no validity. I can choose not to purchase the CEO's companies' services and/or products if I feel that he makes too much money and it bothers me that much. And a CEO (a GOOD CEO) is worth MUCH more than an average employee. Your theology sounds like everyone should get paid the same no matter what they do or what responsibilites they have. . .sounds socialist to me. At least thats what it sounds like from my perspective.

[Russell]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Yes - that's my point as well. You're not paying the provider for a service. Whether your neighbor agrees to it or not, I don't think it's honest to steal from the provider. (And I don't care how much the CEO of the provider makes in regards to this question)

It doesn't work that way. Your provider has given you a specific bandwidth for that connection. You can't go over it because of the limits set on your connection by your provider.

Its just like a 56k modem, if that helps you understand it. No matter how many people you put behind that 56k modem you're limited by the data it can move per second. If you put 20 people on a single connection vs. 2 people its still moving the data at the same speed. The amount of data transfer however is *probably higher but no broadband ISP I know charges by the amount of data transfer per month.

*probably: I say probably above because it all depends on how you use the connection. If you're simply browsing this forum vs another customer of your ISP who's downloading movies all day long, surely his data transfer is *much more* than yours, however, you pay the same amount of money as him.

Bottomline: sharing a broadband connection in general doesn't cost you or your provider anything extra. Is it wrong ? yes only if you secure your connection and I hack into it anyway. But not if its broadcasted to my computer and there's no way of me knowing you don't want it to be used.

[Russell]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Free wireless connections are all over and they're meant to be used that way. They are called "hot spots". Do a google on it and you'll see what I mean.

So, how do I know that the unsecured wireless connection broadcasted to my computer is not a hot spot ? Did you say it was not for use by general public ? Did you secure it so the general public couldn't use it ? If not, then I have no way of differentiating if your connection is a "hot-spot" or not and I'll assume it is since they're all over the place these days.

I've been in the networking and computers field since 1993 and I'm sad to see that so many of us using the Internet today could have such backward thinking. If we all thought like this 10 years ago we wouldn't have the high speed connections to the Internet or the Internet itself. It was all about making it easier and user friendly so everyone could have access to the Internet despite the fact that a lot of people raised skepticism about giving everyone highspeed access to the 'net.

In the next 10 yrs Internet connection will be free everywhere. The DSL prices have come down from $70/mo to $14.95/mo in just the last 4 years.

[gakline]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Free wireless connections are all over and they're meant to be used that way. They are called "hot spots". Do a google on it and you'll see what I mean.

So, how do I know that the unsecured wireless connection broadcasted to my computer is not a hot spot ? Did you say it was not for use by general public ? Did you secure it so the general public couldn't use it ? If not, then I have no way of differentiating if your connection is a "hot-spot" or not and I'll assume it is since they're all over the place these days.

At my BF's house there is a nearby Barnes & Nobles with a Hot-Spot. They have never limited the broadcast to a specific area, so he receives it in his house. We use that all the time for just surfing, but I wouldn't be caught dead doing any banking or personal business through it.

[jmjj215]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Russell, does the ISP specify in their agreement that it is okay for other users to be jumping onto your broadcast signal? What's the ISP's stance?

[Russell]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Russell, does the ISP specify in their agreement that it is okay for other users to be jumping onto your broadcast signal? What's the ISP's stance?

Jesse, wifi and Internet connection are two seperate things. Wifi is simply a link to YOUR network so its not any ISPs business to tell you who you can allow on your network or not. Now once on your network others can "jump" on your Internet connection since its part of your network

I'm sure every ISP has written their terms of use differently but I'm paying for a particular bandwidth between my router and their hub, what I do with my connection is none of their business. However, I'm sure they'd love to charge everyone in your own home to pay for a seperate connection but things start to sound silly.

Again:

1) whether or not someone uses your wireless connection you still pay the same monthly fee.

2) if you don't want someone sharing your connection the responsibility of locking it down rests soley on you.

PS. I love the light bulb analogy

[gakline]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Russell, does the ISP specify in their agreement that it is okay for other users to be jumping onto your broadcast signal? What's the ISP's stance?

How would this be different from having a roommate or having multiple computers? It wouldn't be, with the roommate's consent.

[mehmeh]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

It's stealing.

We all look to save money and that's why we're on this board but how using someone else's service like that isn't stealing makes no sense. Maybe it's theoretically, very energy efficient, in terms of the environment or something but it's definitely wrong. I have a friend who moved across country and started his first job at PC World and now he's Mr. Hacker as it were. Having said that, his whole family steals extra cable and all, so yeah. Some people will do anything to flat-out avoid paying.

I for one would be pieved if my neighbor was stealing anything from me, internet service included.

Again, having said all that, great topic. The internet is changing everything, including ethics.

And to the poster who said, that he wouldn't dare put his personal banking information out there because he knows the bandwidth is public, that's exactly why I dislike this whole gray-area. ..Because what about the folks who don't know how the internet works, or aren't experts? And the people who lurk out there, waiting for those ludites? That's why I for one would love to have a great firewall and pay for the whole thing and have some technition come over and make it so it's uber safe, lol. And tip the guy! At least you know you have the real deal.

[gakline]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

And to the poster who said, that he wouldn't dare put his personal banking information out there because he knows the bandwidth is public, that's exactly why I dislike this whole gray-area. ..Because what about the folks who don't know how the internet works, or aren't experts? And the people who lurk out there, waiting for those ludites? That's why I for one would love to have a great firewall and pay for the whole thing and have some technition come over and make it so it's uber safe, lol. And tip the guy! At least you know you have the real deal.

This can happen in any industry, not just the internet. There are always insurance scams, accounting "oopses", realestate scams, etc. It's not just worrying about other people you have to worry about yourself. People need to educated themselves and not rely others to look out for them. Many people are just plain lazy.

Caveat Emptor (“Buyer Beware”) Obviously this problem has been around for a long long time if there's a latin saying for it.

[CRFSaver]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

You know russell, I had never thought about it in those terms. I think you have a very valid point about the network being yours versus the internet connection. As for all CEO's being crooks I dont agree with that generalization. Do I think many are overpaid? Heck yeah! But I will say the CEO of my company has not taken a salary or bonus in 7 years. He gets paid entirely off the option grants. Mind you he is not hurting one bit. But I think given that he actually founded the company, I have more leeway with a more oversized compensation given the initial risks taken. Now should the next CEO make as much? NO!

[pennywise]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

Option grants are insider trading and don't think otherwise. He knows when to buy and when to sell because he does the authorizing. I will never buy the CEO does not take a salary. Why is Mr. Ford doing it along with yours. Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. They would not do it if there was not something in it for them.

[CRFSaver]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

So when I purchase and sell company stock am I doing insider trading as well? At least with options they do take 3 years to vest meaning, he can't exercise them for 3-5 years. And actually as an insider he is required to report when he makes any purchases or sales. Many companies make a living buying and selling by watching those insider trading reports. Of course they wouldnt do it if there wasnt something in it for them. Think my butt would be in this chair at work if there wasnt something in it for me?

[Russell]

Re: Using your neighbors wireless service

I don't think anyone here's right or wrong in regard to the CEOs because there are examples of good and bad both.

The media of course, mostly covers the bad ones which is not to say there aren't bad ones out there because there are. However, I have a couple of friends that are CEOs of small companies (30-50 employees) and they really work their tails off. However, I've also worked for companies where slick talking sales guys were promoted to being CEOs while if you looked at their real credentials they weren't anywhere near a lot of the others. However, they did bring more sales to the company in the end, I'm sure some don't.

Lets all sit back and take a deep breath because difference in opinions shouldn't introduce personal hostility, we're all grown ups here...at least I think we are