Why we never go out for drink$$$

[shanecurran]

Yes and no. I haven't really traveled to places where that is the system but I have vacationed in all-inclusive settings where there was a no-tipping policy. All costs were included in the price for the stay. We've done that several times and service was always excellent.

Excellent management is essential for those types of systems to work. Unfortunately, in the restaurant industry competent managers are the exception. Demographics of the area also allow this to happen. There are plenty of places I have been in the US where the type of system doesn't matter, you are likely to receive poor service no matter what. The opposite is true as well.

In and Out for example pays their employees more than other fast food restaurants and is therefore able to attract higher quality employees. If all of the other chains followed suit, the quality of the average employee at in and out would drop.

There is nothing stopping restaurants from running a tip free establishment and paying higher wages. If it were profitable people would do it.

[shanecurran]

I just thought about another possible explanation for the reason we have the type of system that we do (besides its inherent superiority of course). Think about taxes. If you increase the price of food by 18% the restaurant increases total revenue by less than 18%. Now they can increase the wage by some amount, but now they have to pay the burden of labor and the employees have to pay taxes on all of their income (which never happens in the current system). So the de facto income of the servers would fall substantially (even if the restaurant decided to transfer all added revenue to the employees)

[disneysteve]

I just thought about another possible explanation for the reason we have the type of system that we do (besides its inherent superiority of course). Think about taxes. If you increase the price of food by 18% the restaurant increases total revenue by less than 18%. Now they can increase the wage by some amount, but now they have to pay the burden of labor and the employees have to pay taxes on all of their income (which never happens in the current system). So the de facto income of the servers would fall substantially (even if the restaurant decided to transfer all added revenue to the employees)

Good point.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Depends on the country for no tipping service. And even in countries with no tipping they expect tips from americans.

[shanecurran]

Depends on the country for no tipping service. And even in countries with no tipping they expect tips from americans.

Whenever I travel in Latin America I like to tip even when it is not customary. I don't tip as much as I would here, but the money I do tip makes a big difference to them, and I enjoy feeling like a baller .

[Little House]

I've been trying to stick to water when I go out to eat. Drinks really are overpriced at restaurants and add quite a bit to the bill.

As for Scanner - Where can I find those $1.00 pitchers!? My husband set a Google Alert for "free beer" but it's always in other parts of the country, not California. LOL.

[disneysteve]

And even in countries with no tipping they expect tips from americans.

That's probably because they know Americans are accustomed to tipping. Of course, on the flip side, visitors from other countries often aren't familiar with the US tipping custom. Some places I visit that are common international tourist destinations actually have little tipping guides on the menu or in the folder that your check comes in.

[shanecurran]

When we get a soda in a restaurant, we usually just get one large one and the 3 of us split it. $2.50 for 3 people isn't quite as bad.

This one is a gem. Was this at the fine dining restaurant that you frequent? LOL.

[MiikeB]

This one is a gem. Was this at the fine dining restaurant that you frequent? LOL.

Do fine dining establishments have sizes? I assume this was at a fast food place or somewhere that doesn't even do free refills (malls etc). I do this all the time.

[MiikeB]

I just thought about another possible explanation for the reason we have the type of system that we do (besides its inherent superiority of course). Think about taxes. If you increase the price of food by 18% the restaurant increases total revenue by less than 18%. Now they can increase the wage by some amount, but now they have to pay the burden of labor and the employees have to pay taxes on all of their income (which never happens in the current system). So the de facto income of the servers would fall substantially (even if the restaurant decided to transfer all added revenue to the employees)

As someone who pays taxes on 100% of my income it irks me to no end when people use the "then I wouldn't make as much because I wouldn't be able to defraud the government" excuse.

Excellent management is essential for those types of systems to work. Unfortunately, in the restaurant industry competent managers are the exception.

I would counter that excellent managerial candidates are usually available, but they do not seek the position because they make more money being excellent waiters in the current system.

[NolaP]

SCANNER: Good evening DisneySteve. My name is Scanner, I'll be your server tonight. May I start you off with a flavored iced tea or cold Miller Genuine Draft from the bar?

DISNEYSTEVE: No thank you. I'll just have a glass of water.

SCANNER: Awesome. I'll be back in a second with that. While you are looking at the menu would you both like to split an order of the garlic Tuscany Cheese Bread?

DISNEYSTEVE: No thank you. . .I'll just be getting the cheapest thing on the menu tonight. I have a reputation as Savings College President to uphold, you know. We did a whole piece on picking the cheapest thing on the menu at Savings Advice Dot Com, you know.

SCANNER: Very good, sir. That would be baked chicken with salt and broccoli and a toothpick.

He he, this one cracked me up!

[shanecurran]

As someone who pays taxes on 100% of my income it irks me to no end when people use the "then I wouldn't make as much because I wouldn't be able to defraud the government" excuse.

You like to view the world as it "should be" I like to view the world as it is. I also pay taxes on 100% of my income, I am not defending the practice, I am just saying that it happens and needs to be considered in a debate about which system is better.

[disneysteve]

This one is a gem. Was this at the fine dining restaurant that you frequent? LOL.

Of course not. At the fine dining places, we drink water. I'm not spoiling an excellent meal by pairing it with a Coke. We share when we're at the mall food court or somewhere similar.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I believe my husband would say everything is better with coke!

But on another note, my DH feels like we've worked hard a long time, and go out infrequently so he might as well enjoy it. LOL. Me? I hate buying drinks. But then again it has been a long, long time.

[NolaP]

There are great happy hours all over the place if you're looking for cheap drinks. And it never hurts to ask the bartender what is on special, if anything. I've been a bartender off and on all my adult life, and in bartending at least (though maybe not waiting tables) you never can tell who is going to stiff you, tip you or tip you a lot, so it pays to be nice to everyone. I've been tipped $40 on a few drinks, and nothing on a bottle of champagne. And this is working at a place that paid us NOTHING as an hourly wage. All our pay was the tips we made, minus what we tipped out the bar back. Bartending and waiting tables is hard work, and people on both sides of these jobs can be rude. Bottom line, as in all of life, is that it pays to be kind to everyone, and to treat others as you wish to be treated. ... Very interesting comments in this thread.