Adult child won't leave - what would you do?

[maat55]

Wow Maat. I find myself massively disagreeing with the 2nd paragraph here, especially the word "fear." No child should feel afraid of either parent. Respect comes before love, yes. The other paragraphs and words are fine... and agreeable. Maybe "fear" is the wrong word?

How can anyone "respect" someone they fear? How can there be "love" when there's "fear?" And do you "fear" stangers automatically before any other feeling?

Ultimately, there's no "trust" with strangers until that person has earned the trust -- but people are given the benefit of the doubt until they've directly proven otherwise. Should a son or daughter be given any less? Should "fear" really be part of the equation?

Fear may be a strong word for what I'm saying. They never had to fear me fisically, they just knew I meant what I said. Because the police have a controlled system they go by, makes you respect them or else, so to speak.

Example: One day my younger daughter was driving in a parking lot and another car backed out and hit her. Her first response was to cry afraid I would take her car from her. I told both my daughters, that if they ever had an accident I would sell their car. What I didn't say was an at fault accident. Obviously, she was not in trouble. The guy that hit her was 16 and was his third wreck in a month. He would have only had one in my house.

[Seeker]

Fear may be a strong word for what I'm saying. They never had to fear me fisically, they just knew I meant what I said. Because the police have a controlled system they go by, makes you respect them or else, so to speak.

Example: One day my younger daughter was driving in a parking lot and another car backed out and hit her. Her first response was to cry afraid I would take her car from her. I told both my daughters, that if they ever had an accident I would sell their car. What I didn't say was an at fault accident. Obviously, she was not in trouble. The guy that hit her was 16 and was his third wreck in a month. He would have only had one in my house.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

Trust to do the right thing is in-line with respect. There may not be one-word for that feeling. Almost trust but with the knowledge that the person will make the right decision with the love and consideration that a parent should have with his or her child. Each situation is slightly different; each child is unique in their needs as well.

I just have the feeling that for this poster and his son, that there's more to it. 22 years of age is awfully old to be "screaming" at one or other parent. Seems to me that he (the Son) needs more help from a psychological point-of-view.

Some people also mentioned peers. The Son should already be aware of the peers situation. If he's staying out until 7 AM with his friends and comes home to sleep, I assure you that his friends are not living with their folks.

His friends may or may not be contributing to this situation, but again, the Son is probably still depressed and IMO shouldn't be given ultimatums or kicked out without any help. The Son needs to get out of himself in order to get out of his depressions.

The Son may always need medical help. Depression (without reason) is a disease. Non-disease reasons for depression consists of major-life changes: death of someone "close," loss of job, etc. <-- these are "temporary" causes of depression and can be resolved over time without medications. But long-lasting depression without reason is not the same.

Something changed for the Son -- at college. We do not have a response from the OP to that.

[maat55]

Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

Trust to do the right thing is in-line with respect. There may not be one-word for that feeling. Almost trust but with the knowledge that the person will make the right decision with the love and consideration that a parent should have with his or her child. Each situation is slightly different; each child is unique in their needs as well.

I just have the feeling that for this poster and his son, that there's more to it. 22 years of age is awfully old to be "screaming" at one or other parent. Seems to me that he (the Son) needs more help from a psychological point-of-view.

Some people also mentioned peers. The Son should already be aware of the peers situation. If he's staying out until 7 AM with his friends and comes home to sleep, I assure you that his friends are not living with their folks.

His friends may or may not be contributing to this situation, but again, the Son is probably still depressed and IMO shouldn't be given ultimatums or kicked out without any help. The Son needs to get out of himself in order to get out of his depressions.

The Son may always need medical help. Depression (without reason) is a disease. Non-disease reasons for depression consists of major-life changes: death of someone "close," loss of job, etc. <-- these are "temporary" causes of depression and can be resolved over time without medications. But long-lasting depression without reason is not the same.

Something changed for the Son -- at college. We do not have a response from the OP to that.

I must admit, I don't make allowances for depression or disorders. I believe when someone yells at their parents, stays out till 7, lays around and won't work they have a behavior problem of their own choice. Much of which is built upon, poor parenting. I raised my girls teaching them that they will have to go get what they want in life and do it without embarassing the family. Both are class A citizens. IMO, OP needs to introduce some serious tough love.

[Seeker]

I must admit, I don't make allowances for depression or disorders. I believe when someone yells at their parents, stays out till 7, lays around and won't work they have a behavior problem of their own choice. Much of which is built upon, poor parenting. I raised my girls teaching them that they will have to go get what they want in life and do it without embarassing the family. Both are class A citizens. IMO, OP needs to introduce some serious tough love.

I guess I've seen too many instances of "care" for depression, fail, including a friend of mine in HS who attempted sucide and was in the hospital for several months afterward. Her feelings were mostly due to family concerns; or rather her feelings about her family. She would have always been better off without them; and she did go on to live with her grandmother "better" than she ever could with her immediate family.

We all make choices and it sounds as if this "family" is disfunctional by viture of H & W not agreeing or not sticking by any agreements when their son starts over-reacting. 22 years of age is sorta late to introduce a different parental behavior to the son, but then it sounds as if they didn't have to before either.

Questions wrote:

I only want to see my son succeed in life. I love him dearly and miss the togetherness we shared before college. I can only hope.

The above struck a chord in me, and "college" seems to be what changed this son's attitude. If I knew what happened in college, all of what I've written might change. The pre-college sounds very different from the post-college. And thereby, until Questions posts what happen in college (if he knows) introducing "serious tough love" could be a mistake in this situation.

[maat55]

I guess I've seen too many instances of "care" for depression, fail, including a friend of mine in HS who attempted sucide and was in the hospital for several months afterward. Her feelings were mostly due to family concerns; or rather her feelings about her family. She would have always been better off without them; and she did go on to live with her grandmother "better" than she ever could with her immediate family.

We all make choices and it sounds as if this "family" is disfunctional by viture of H & W not agreeing or not sticking by any agreements when their son starts over-reacting. 22 years of age is sorta late to introduce a different parental behavior to the son, but then it sounds as if they didn't have to before either.

Questions wrote:


The above struck a chord in me, and "college" seems to be what changed this son's attitude. If I knew what happened in college, all of what I've written might change. The pre-college sounds very different from the post-college. And thereby, until Questions posts what happen in college (if he knows) introducing "serious tough love" could be a mistake in this situation.

In that case, the people closest to him should have a better idea of how to handle him. If he showed no signs of this behavoir before college, you might have a point. But if this is an on going problem, I would not coddle him. One thing I do know is, if you keep doing the samething you can expect the same results.

[Seeker]

True enough Maat -- but this change of their son is a change to their view. They are not dealing with the same person; in their mind their son has changed. They may not know why.

Here's another real life happening. Family with multiple sons. Youngest is sent to college. Does well. Meets girl. Falls in love. Girl does not return the feeling. Son looses it. Leaves college. Family at this point does not know where their son is at. Months later they get a call from the police. Son is in custody. Son has been living on the street, and committing crimes. Son is being taken to a mental facility to be held until court and for assessment. Family goes through the court systems and son will always be incarcerated and living in this mental prison for these crimes. He will always need medication.

Why? Becasue the son lost it and could not find help at the time he needed it? Because the son was to proud to go back to the known secure area called home? And because son hurt other innocent people and took out aggressions/frustrations on others because of this loss of control.

It's easy to write about things that I'd do; but I know too that if this were my son, I'd probably be blind too.

What if this were your son Maat? What if your son had changed by some event in college? What if there were still so much anger that he were to yell and scream at anything you say or try to do to help him? What if you felt that your son had suddenly become a stranger to you? That you no longer knew him?

These people have a choice. Their son came home. The Dad is asking the question because he does not know what to do. All he knows is his frustration. And it's affecting his familiy life.

I don't know exactly what the situation is here. Neither can anyone with a few written words.

Questions....get help for your son. Find someone who can talk with him to find out what is really troubling him and go from there. Find a doctor that is fully qualified.

[Scanner]

Maat,

You're not a family therapist and I think the advice you are rendering is irresponsible.

Translation for the new catch phrase, "tough love":

"I can't solve this problem using intellect so I'll defer to lowest common denominator and throw him out." (brute force)

Maat, I know this is going to sound like "tough love" but you seem to search out oversimplistic solutions for every situation (reduce all debt at all costs) and therefore fall for messenger gurus with oversimplistic promises (Dave Ramsey and this advice smacks of Dr. Phil).

Life is more complicated and compromises and diplomacy has it's place.

You know. . .everyone makes the mother sound like a helpless enabler - maybe she's just in the middle and sees both sides and 2 parties unwilling to make a compromise.

Naw. . .Dr. Phil says this person is an "enabler", right?

[maat55]

Maat,

You're not a family therapist and I think the advice you are rendering is irresponsible.

Translation for the new catch phrase, "tough love":

"I can't solve this problem using intellect so I'll defer to lowest common denominator and throw him out." (brute force)

Maat, I know this is going to sound like "tough love" but you seem to search out oversimplistic solutions for every situation (reduce all debt at all costs) and therefore fall for messenger gurus with oversimplistic promises (Dave Ramsey and this advice smacks of Dr. Phil).

Life is more complicated and compromises and diplomacy has it's place.

You know. . .everyone makes the mother sound like a helpless enabler - maybe she's just in the middle and sees both sides and 2 parties unwilling to make a compromise.

Naw. . .Dr. Phil says this person is an "enabler", right?

I could say the same for you, over analyzing hasn't seemed to help either. I dont think you need Einstein to tell you not to step in XXXX. DR & Dr Phil give simple advice that happens to WORK.

Your statement above is the exact reason congress is so screwed up. IMO, when you make someone do the right thing, they do it.

If you have a solution that will work, I suggest you present it. And when they are through doing everything they can to coddle him, they will be forced to do it right. You seem to fit the mold: I am a doctor, therefore I know.

[Thrifty Ray]

I would work with a family counselor to set very clear, fair and distinct goals for everyone. Son needs to understand the impact his actions are having on the family and the family needs to understand sons depression so that you can make an informed decision as to whether it is a medical condition, laziness and how to best overcome either/both. THEN, a solid plan can be made. There are ways to turn depression around and there is a way to get the son to understand...it just hasnt been uncovered yet.

Collectively the family should come up with a plan that will work. Ultimately, mom and dad need to be on the same page- uncovering the issues will help get you there.

If son still does not make efforts and parents still are wanting son to move.. mom and dad need to be ready to take a tougher approach.

I wish all of you the very best.

[GoodBuyGirl]

Many kids today think that they should have the same standard of living as they did living with their parents. When they get out in the real world they think that they are entitled to these things. They have no concept of how long and hard their parents worked to reach a certain standard of living.
As long as things are handed to him he is not going to want to make a life for himself. If he does not want to act like an adult you need to start treating him like a child. He is living in your home so it should be by your rules. Give hime a proper bed time and a time to be home when he goes out with friends ect.. Explain to him that when he moves out he can live by his own rules and that you would be more than happy to help him finding a job and working on a budget to make it happen. If he threatens you call the police. There are many state agencies who can help him with his depression if that is the problem.

[Scanner]

DR & Dr Phil give simple advice that happens to WORK.

Dr. Phil and Dave Ramsey are TV entertainers.

Your statement above is the exact reason congress is so screwed up. IMO, when you make someone do the right thing, they do it.

I happen to think our system of government is the best in the world and our forefathers were geniuses in forming the 3 branches of government.

In fact, I like the balance between the House and the Senate.

But I take it you are a Simplistic George Bush supporter?

Don't like a country? Let's invade them, right? And just borrow the difference, right?

If you have a solution that will work, I suggest you present it. And when they are through doing everything they can to coddle him, they will be forced to do it right. You seem to fit the mold: I am a doctor, therefore I know.

I know this - there isn't way enough information here to diagnose and treat this dysfunction. We are getting one side of the story.

IMO, "throwing someone out on their ear" is probably best reserved only for extreme situations (drug abuse, violence).

Hey, I'll admit - as a taxpayor, I have a selfish interest here. . .the family unit is the best form of social insurance we have.

Throw him out on his ear and he's not ready and he ends up on welfare/unemployment and the State is supporting him, instead of a functional family unit, working to make him a contributing member of society.

Some people think there is more honor in having the State support someone; I happen to be in the camp that the family is a better choice than the State.

[Scanner]

Maat,

I want to apologize to you while I am thinking of it. I stand by my opinions here but I think they were a little too "in your face"/provocative.

Again, I am not a fan of simple solutions to complext problems and think most delicate situations call for a thoughtful approach.

I hope the family in question here acheives a peaceful solution.

[maat55]

Maat,

I want to apologize to you while I am thinking of it. I stand by my opinions here but I think they were a little too "in your face"/provocative.

Again, I am not a fan of simple solutions to complext problems and think most delicate situations call for a thoughtful approach.

I hope the family in question here acheives a peaceful solution.

Like you, I hope for the family and son, a happy ending.

I do wish to make it clear that my original advice was to give him three months to prepare. Reading the OP's post again still leads me to believe the son is a freeloader. And I certainly don't think that everytime a kid acts bad there is a disorder attached to it.

I in no way believe that you nor I are anymore qualified over the other to give advice to this situation. I gave the advice of a 46 year old man with 25 years of fatherhood. I too stand by my oppinion. With that said, I will agree to disagree.

I too agree that the founding fathers put together the best government known to man. But, what it has morphed into is an arguement for another day.